Small Signal Boxes continuously manned

[Springs Branch]

I came across this document on the public part of the Network Rail website which gives opening and closing times of signal boxes around the system.

www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Compendium-of-Signal-Box-Opening-Times.pdf

Looking at my own area of interest - North West & Central region (pages 24 to 27), most of the opening & closing times (or continuous operation) make sense - with a few intriguing exceptions. In summary:-

• All major signalling centres, PSBs etc are open 24/7, along with smaller traditional boxes on main routes which will see overnight trains - e.g. Astley, Vitriol Works, Blea Moor and Plumley are open continuously - no surprises here.
• Smaller boxes on purely freight routes, where traffic is likely to run at very 'unsocial' hours are also open continuously - e.g. Arpley Jn and Great Rocks Jn.
• Smaller boxes on many secondary lines which have almost exclusively passenger services often close overnight, more or less in line with expectations. E.g.
  - Furness Vale box is open 05:40-00:10 M-Sa and 08:00-00:00 Su, closed overnight.
  - Rufford box is open 05:40-23:40 M-Sa, closed overnight and all day Su.
  - Whitehaven Bransty open 05:30-00:00 M-Sa, 12:10 to 23:40 Su.

The odd ones which I can't quite understand include boxes at Parbold, Burscough Bridge, Dinting, Ellesmere Port and Bromley Cross (LC gate box). These are shown as open continuously 24/7. These are lines where there is no traffic between roughly midnight and 05:30 -06:00 (no regularly-scheduled early-hours ECS and even the rail treatment train paths seem to be in the 'daytime' window).

So if you're the signaller doing a week of Night Shift at one of these boxes, once you've dealt with the last few trains in the late evening, what do you do all night?

It must be terribly tedious to sit up all night in these boxes (without nodding off) with nothing to do for 25 to 33% of your working hours (assuming rotating shifts). Why wouldn't the Absolute Block box at Parbold, for example, be closed between midnight and 6am, and which early-hours pedestrians is the crossing keeper at Bromley Cross keeping safe from trains which don't run?

I understand there may be late night engineering work from time to time, but wouldn't it be more economic to specially open a box just on the odd occasion this work was happening?

 

[Gloster]

I have noticed the same thing. Back in my days (late 1970s to mid-1980s) it was the norm to close boxes at periods when there was no traffic: at one location the relevant manager was almost fanatical about shaving minutes off the bill. If the engineers wanted the box open outside these hours they paid for it: I wonder if the aforementioned manager saved the railway as a whole, rather than the Traffic department, money as, when the box needed to be open for engineering work, an extra shift had to be rostered.

I wonder if the more economic management practices of BR days, when everything like this had to be justified, even if a pragmatic approach was taken, have been lost. Or whether Network Rail take the uncritical attitude that it will always be one part or another of their business that pays, so they might as well go the whole hog from the start.

 

[dk1]

I have noticed the same thing. Back in my days (late 1970s to mid-1980s) it was the norm to close boxes at periods when there was no traffic: at one location the relevant manager was almost fanatical about shaving minutes off the bill. If the engineers wanted the box open outside these hours they paid for it: I wonder if the aforementioned manager saved the railway as a whole, rather than the Traffic department, money as, when the box needed to be open for engineering work, an extra shift had to be rostered.

I wonder if the more economic management practices of BR days, when everything like this had to be justified, even if a pragmatic approach was taken, have been lost. Or whether Network Rail take the uncritical attitude that it will always be one part or another of their business that pays, so they might as well go the whole hog from the start.

This was when many boxes in my area went over to 9h45 shifts. They tended to be unmanned 00:30-05:00.

 

[Welshman]

From my reading of signallers' reminiscences, quiet time, for example on Sunday mornings, was spent cleaning the windows, polishing the floor, blacking the stove, and other such work. Some signalmen even used to use the time to take on other functions, like being the village barber, and had a stream of folks visiting the box!
Whilst I don't think for one minute that the latter still applies today{!}, is there still any expectation of the signallers in the smaller, traditional boxes to keep them clean, or are there now cleaners specifically employed for this task?

 

[AVK17]

I came across this document on the public part of the Network Rail website which gives opening and closing times of signal boxes around the system.

www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Compendium-of-Signal-Box-Opening-Times.pdf

Looking at my own area of interest - North West & Central region (pages 24 to 27), most of the opening & closing times (or continuous operation) make sense - with a few intriguing exceptions. In summary:-

• All major signalling centres, PSBs etc are open 24/7, along with smaller traditional boxes on main routes which will see overnight trains - e.g. Astley, Vitriol Works, Blea Moor and Plumley are open continuously - no surprises here.
• Smaller boxes on purely freight routes, where traffic is likely to run at very 'unsocial' hours are also open continuously - e.g. Arpley Jn and Great Rocks Jn.
• Smaller boxes on many secondary lines which have almost exclusively passenger services often close overnight, more or less in line with expectations. E.g.
  - Furness Vale box is open 05:40-00:10 M-Sa and 08:00-00:00 Su, closed overnight.
  - Rufford box is open 05:40-23:40 M-Sa, closed overnight and all day Su.
  - Whitehaven Bransty open 05:30-00:00 M-Sa, 12:10 to 23:40 Su.

The odd ones which I can't quite understand include boxes at Parbold, Burscough Bridge, Dinting, Ellesmere Port and Bromley Cross (LC gate box). These are shown as open continuously 24/7. These are lines where there is no traffic between roughly midnight and 05:30 -06:00 (no regularly-scheduled early-hours ECS and even the rail treatment train paths seem to be in the 'daytime' window).

So if you're the signaller doing a week of Night Shift at one of these boxes, once you've dealt with the last few trains in the late evening, what do you do all night?

It must be terribly tedious to sit up all night in these boxes (without nodding off) with nothing to do for 25 to 33% of your working hours (assuming rotating shifts). Why wouldn't the Absolute Block box at Parbold, for example, be closed between midnight and 6am, and which early-hours pedestrians is the crossing keeper at Bromley Cross keeping safe from trains which don't run?

I understand there may be late night engineering work from time to time, but wouldn't it be more economic to specially open a box just on the odd occasion this work was happening?

You’re underestimating how much engineering work goes on overnight, having possessions and/or line blockages overnight every night of the week* isn’t unusual for most signalboxes. It is permissible to grant a possession or line blockage and close the box with it still on and give it up after the box opens but many of these will require the signalbox to be open throughout for various reasons. So little work is allowed to be done on the line while trains are running these days that the overnight no train period really is vital to complete inspections and maintenance work uninterrupted.

It can also be easier to build a roster with continuous shift coverage than one where signalboxes close overnight** and, going back to engineering work, additional opening hours come at a premium and relies on staff’s willingness to do overtime. The government keeps saying the rail industry needs to move to less reliance on overtime, not more. The money saved from having a signalbox closed overnight really isn’t that much in the bigger scale of things. Having the box open continuously also means the line is available for rail traffic at any time if needed in an emergency.

Is there still any expectation of the signallers in the smaller, traditional boxes to keep them clean, or are there now cleaners specifically employed for this task?

You’ll only find a cleaner in the big multi-mannned signalling centres and ROCs. The vast majority of signalboxes requre the signallers on duty to do all the cleaning and Sunday is still cleaning day. In my experience very few boxes take the old type of military pride in keeping the place spotless and highly polished*** but some still do make the extra effort.

* except Fridays

**particularly where you have a line where some boxes close and others don’t, or where different boxes have different opening times it can be quite restrictive on what shifts your relief staff can do because of Hidden rest requirements

***I suppose that was probably down to signalmen of old having done National Service

 

[MadMac]

My particular area of interest is Scotland, and the most recent version of that document lists at least four boxes which no longer exist! Another consideration is potential for vandalism: Kilmarnock no longer closes over Christmas & New Year after an attempt to burn it down a number of years ago.

 

[ChrisHogan]

I have noticed the same thing. Back in my days (late 1970s to mid-1980s) it was the norm to close boxes at periods when there was no traffic: at one location the relevant manager was almost fanatical about shaving minutes off the bill. If the engineers wanted the box open outside these hours they paid for it: I wonder if the aforementioned manager saved the railway as a whole, rather than the Traffic department, money as, when the box needed to be open for engineering work, an extra shift had to be rostered.

I wonder if the more economic management practices of BR days, when everything like this had to be justified, even if a pragmatic approach was taken, have been lost. Or whether Network Rail take the uncritical attitude that it will always be one part or another of their business that pays, so they might as well go the whole hog from the start.

I moved Dorking SB from being open 0530 to 0100 to continuously in 1978 because of the impossibility of filling the four vacancies there and because 80% of the time the box was open continuously anyway due to engineering work. The potential savings from not having to use relief signalmen more than outweighed the cost of the extra hours.

 

[Gloster]

I suppose that nowadays there are far more things that you can’t do. It used to be possible to to grant a possessions and then close a box: the only restriction was that all boxes that had been open when it was granted had to be open when it was given up. It was also possible for a box to close with a train or OTM in the possession, although this would depend on their being no points, crossings, etc. I also presume that nowadays far more jobs require formal possessions (TIII) than used to be the case.

 

[AVK17]

I suppose that nowadays there are far more things that you can’t do. It used to be possible to to grant a possessions and then close a box: the only restriction was that all boxes that had been open when it was granted had to be open when it was given up. It was also possible for a box to close with a train or OTM in the possession, although this would depend on their being no points, crossings, etc. I also presume that nowadays far more jobs require formal possessions (TIII) than used to be the case.

Nothing has changed in that respect, you can still close a signalbox with the line under a possession (T3) or line blockage (now TS1 13.2 but you might know it as the old T2 or T12) but the signalboxes involved need to be open before it can be given up, except for intermediate signalboxes. There’s no restriction on having engineers trains or machines working within a possession with the signalbox closed, though obviously a train can only enter or leave the possession when the signalbox controlling the entry or exit signal is open as the driver needs the signaller’s authority to do so.

 

[MadMac]

I moved Dorking SB from being open 0530 to 0100 to continuously in 1978 because of the impossibility of filling the four vacancies there and because 80% of the time the box was open continuously anyway due to engineering work. The potential savings from not having to use relief signalmen more than outweighed the cost of the extra hours.

I’m interested in the thinking on this. Would making it continuous make it a more attractive proposition for someone to move there?

 

[cin88]

Well that list is out of date, Rufford and Midge Hall open 0600-0000hrs Monday - Saturday unless a signaller is required for engineering work.

When you've got down time you're expected to be reading your rulebooks. There's only so much of that you can do before you end up driving yourself mad so you'll also be cleaning the box (smaller locations don't have cleaners), having your lunch/dinner, keeping yourself up to date with the weekly notices and almost never ending list of line blockages being sent in by the section planners/contractors, amongst other things.

 

[TheBigD]

So if you're the signaller doing a week of Night Shift at one of these boxes, once you've dealt with the last few trains in the late evening, what do you do all night?

Study rule book module Z. It's a big module that requires a lot of study!

 

[DaveHarries]

Sadly the boxes at Ferryside, Kidwelly and Pembrey & Burry Port won't be inclused in that list for much longer: the list of engineering works on GWR's website advises no trains between Swansea and Carmarthen on 17th, 18th, 24th, 26th, 27th & 31st December 2022 as well as 01st & 02nd January 2023 due to "signalling works". Those works will likely put an end to the boxes at those locations along with the mechanical signalling controlled from P&BP and Ferryside. I have heard on a forum that the plan is to resignal and / or recontrol all the way to Sarnau CCTV crossing, just west of Carmarthen, including Carmarthen station: the person who posted that said it would allow for "signalling a third platform in Carmarthen" but he wasn't sure and that there was "a lot of hear say at the moment."

GWR's website also refers to line closures in Cornwall over the next couple of months for various works, including signalling, in parts of Cornwall with line closures scheduled for 5th, 6th, 19th, 20th & 27th November plus Sunday 04th December and Monday 05th to Thursday 08th December for track and structure renewals as well as the replacing of lineside equipment - see https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering/cornwall-engineering - in a programme of works which will lead to the loss of the boxes at Lostwithiel, Par and Truro with control passing to Exeter. I am fairly sure I also heard something about plans for a second platform at Newquay but have not heard anything official on that one. Further works are planned in 2023 between Par and Newquay (27th - 30th January) and between Liskeard and Par (27th - 31st March).

Dave

 

[Gloster]

Sadly the boxes at Ferryside, Kidwelly and Pembrey & Burry Port won't be inclused in that list for much longer: the list of engineering works on GWR's website advises no trains between Swansea and Carmarthen on 17th, 18th, 24th, 26th, 27th & 31st December 2022 as well as 01st & 02nd January 2023 due to "signalling works". Those works will likely put an end to the boxes at those locations along with the mechanical signalling controlled from P&BP and Ferryside. I have heard on a forum that the plan is to resignal and / or recontrol all the way to Sarnau CCTV crossing, just west of Carmarthen, including Carmarthen station: the person who posted that said it would allow for "signalling a third platform in Carmarthen" but he wasn't sure and that there was "a lot of hear say at the moment."

GWR's website also refers to line closures in Cornwall over the next couple of months for various works, including signalling, in parts of Cornwall with line closures scheduled for 5th, 6th, 19th, 20th & 27th November plus Sunday 04th December and Monday 05th to Thursday 08th December for track and structure renewals as well as the replacing of lineside equipment - see https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering/cornwall-engineering - in a programme of works which will lead to the loss of the boxes at Lostwithiel, Par and Truro with control passing to Exeter. I am fairly sure I also heard something about plans for a second platform at Newquay but have not heard anything official on that one. Further works are planned in 2023 between Par and Newquay (27th - 30th January) and between Liskeard and Par (27th - 31st March).

Dave

Pembrey, Kidwelly, Ferryside and Carmarthen Junction are due to close in March and September 2023. Presumably the first three in March and Carmarthen in September.

Lostwithiel, Par and Truro to go in November 2023.

Source: The Signalling Record Nos. 205 and 206 (Signalling Record Society).

 

[DaveHarries]

Pembrey, Kidwelly, Ferryside and Carmarthen Junction are due to close in March and September 2023. Presumably the first three in March and Carmarthen in September.

Lostwithiel, Par and Truro to go in November 2023.

Source: The Signalling Record Nos. 205 and 206 (Signalling Record Society).

Ah so the works are for installation of the various equipment: thanks for that.

Dave

 

[66701GBRF]

Study rule book module Z. It's a big module that requires a lot of study!

This. Anyone that thinks it doesn't happen or that no one watches TV or a tablet or some other device is very much mistaken.

 

[Barn]

I've always been amazed by Charlton Lane crossing - presumably there's some reason why it still needs a person continuously staffing a small box when so many other crossings are CCTV controlled?

 

[Gloster]

It is probably a combination of poor visibility for train drivers because of the tunnel, the proximity of a road junction and the amount of traffic. Is the road a bit of a rat run?

I've always been amazed by Charlton Lane crossing - presumably there's some reason why it still needs a person continuously staffing a small box when so many other crossings are CCTV controlled?

 

[steamybrian]

The smallest signal box is
It lists "Wye Crossing" but there is no such signal box as such but there is a ground frame on the platform end which locks the crossing gates. The traditional crossing gates are hand operated by Network Rail staff but are shortly to be replaced with modern barriers.
The ground frame as far as I know has probably two levers (? to be confirmed)

 

[John Webb]

I've always been amazed by Charlton Lane crossing - presumably there's some reason why it still needs a person continuously staffing a small box when so many other crossings are CCTV controlled?

It is probably a combination of poor visibility for train drivers because of the tunnel, the proximity of a road junction and the amount of traffic. Is the road a bit of a rat run?

When I lived in that part of the world I passed this crossing most days. I think the proximity of the nearby road junction (Charlton Lane with the busy A206 Woolwich Road) needs someone on site to monitor the flow of traffic at that road junction to ensure the crossing doesn't get blocked. And the presence of someone in the box may also deter misuse of the crossing? (It was converted to barriers in 1973.)
I don't think it is much of a 'rat run' - it's a lot easier to get out onto the A206 at Charlton Church Lane about 600m away.

There was another crossing "Sand Street" at the East end of the two tunnels. That was closed completely in 1969.

 

[LAX54]

This was when many boxes in my area went over to 9h45 shifts. They tended to be unmanned 00:30-05:00.

9.45 on the Norwich to Lowestoft route (not so much Yarmouth) was an unmitigated disaster overall, lost count the amount of times the last set of cars from Lowestoft, had to stay overnight in Lowestoft !

This. Anyone that thinks it doesn't happen or that no one watches TV or a tablet or some other device is very much mistaken.

but...if caught on an out of hours visit......

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Deleted

 

[dk1]

9.45 on the Norwich to Lowestoft route (not so much Yarmouth) was an unmitigated disaster overall, lost count the amount of times the last set of cars from Lowestoft, had to stay overnight in Lowestoft !

Yes nobody minded 9h45 too much until they shut Lowestoft drivers depot resulting in the 23:25 Lowestoft-Norwich being introduced & those boxes (especially Reedham, Cantley & Brundall) having to work almost up to their day. Couldn’t even have a lay in on early thanks to the Newspaper trains leaving Norwich for the coast at 05:20 & 05:30 lol

 

[Gloster]

The smallest signal box is
It lists "Wye Crossing" but there is no such signal box as such but there is a ground frame on the platform end which locks the crossing gates. The traditional crossing gates are hand operated by Network Rail staff but are shortly to be replaced with modern barriers.
The ground frame as far as I know has probably two levers (? to be confirmed)

The list covers all locations that function as Signal or Crossing Boxes, irrespective of their structure. Paignton SB is, I think, in a room in the station building, while at Pantyffynon LC the crossing-keeper is, again I think, housed in the old station building like Wye. There are probably still a number of other examples where the Signal Box is not in its own special building.

Chartham and Wye are due to go over to CCTV in December.

 

[Llanigraham]

The smallest signal box is
It lists "Wye Crossing" but there is no such signal box as such but there is a ground frame on the platform end which locks the crossing gates. The traditional crossing gates are hand operated by Network Rail staff but are shortly to be replaced with modern barriers.
The ground frame as far as I know has probably two levers (? to be confirmed)

I would suggest that GW734, Llwyn Cadwgan on the Cambrian Coast beats that!
It has no levers, or buttons and the signaller is only there to ensure that the User Worked Crossing at the north end of the platforms is closed properly by the users. It had a history of some very poor behaviour by them in the past.
It was the only Box that was suggested to me as a suitable replacement, without promotion, after I damaged my hand pulling levers, but was too far away from home to be practical.

 

[LAX54]

Yes nobody minded 9h45 too much until they shut Lowestoft drivers depot resulting in the 23:25 Lowestoft-Norwich being introduced & those boxes (especially Reedham, Cantley & Brundall) having to work almost up to their day. Couldn’t even have a lay in on early thanks to the Newspaper trains leaving Norwich for the coast at 05:20 & 05:30 lol

Yes, Lowestoft / Oulton Broad had ample time in the rostered hours to allow late running, but Reedham to Brundall was a different story, recall many times Brundall finding out how late the last Ipswich was running, and then telling Control.... 'we aint staying on'

 

[bramling]

I would suggest that GW734, Llwyn Cadwgan on the Cambrian Coast beats that!
It has no levers, or buttons and the signaller is only there to ensure that the User Worked Crossing at the north end of the platforms is closed properly by the users. It had a history of some very poor behaviour by them in the past.
It was the only Box that was suggested to me as a suitable replacement, without promotion, after I damaged my hand pulling levers, but was too far away from home to be practical.

Red Cow at Exeter has a similar function, in this case supervising pedestrians using the level crossing. The attendant is kept rather busier than in your example though. Can’t be a particularly nice role as the crossing is quite busy, and directing pedestrians when the barriers are down is quite a heavy responsibility.

 

[Gloster]

I think that at Red Cow the barriers are operated by CCTV from the panel and the attendant is only concerned with pedestrians. The attendant is only there 06.00-22.00: it used to continuous, even when the barriers were controlled by Exeter Middle box.

 

[bramling]

I think that at Red Cow the barriers are operated by CCTV from the panel and the attendant is only concerned with pedestrians. The attendant is only there 06.00-22.00: it used to continuous, even when the barriers were controlled by Exeter Middle box.

Yes that’s my understanding. Not a role I’d enjoy - get something wrong and there’s quite real potential for a nasty near-miss involving pedestrians. Hats off to the guys who work it.

 

[dk1]

Yes, Lowestoft / Oulton Broad had ample time in the rostered hours to allow late running, but Reedham to Brundall was a different story, recall many times Brundall finding out how late the last Ipswich was running, and then telling Control.... 'we aint staying on'

These days we would only do it for 12+2 or is that because I've been a driver too long now?