Smartcard seasons - effect of not touching in/out?

[cookie365]

This is currently theoretical, because the ticket I've opted for isn't available on Southern's Key card.

But suppose I had a Key card with say a Brighton > Victoria season ticket, and nothing else, and not activated for pay as you go.

And imagine I started my journey at a station along the route - fine, it's a season - that wasn't barriered, and forgot to touch in.

Or that I ended my journey at a station along the route - fine, it's a season - that wasn't barriered, and forgot to touch out.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1308127 suggests that you must (in bold) touch in/out.

So what would the effect be if you don't?

Does a season ticket on the Key become invalid when you touch out and not become valid again until you touch in?

If you don't touch out, does touching in the next morning actually mean you're touching out? After all, you can break your journey on a season ticket, including overnight!

Is a penalty fare a possibility? Even though you actually do hold a valid ticket?

 

[horizonflame]

SWT barriers will not allow a touch-in or touch-out if the barriers are unmanned and set to open - I don't know if Sothern's Key is the same!

A very limited number of SWT guards have smartcard reader between Woking-Guildford on my route and their readers only show the details of my season I have been told.

It may in theory be a breach of the terms and conditions of use of the product to not touch-in/touch-out but providing you hold a valid ticket for your journey you will be fine.

 

[cookie365]

Thank you horizonflame.

Southern's T&Cs do say you have to touch in 'where single/return or season tickets are held' or risk a penalty fare (they don't say anything at all about touching out, regardless of the ticket type.

It would be harsh to impose a penalty fare for forgetting to touch in or out when there's no such obligation on the equivalent paper ticket, and where you clearly have a valid ticket. But I wouldn't rule it out!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be harsh to impose a penalty fare for forgetting to touch in or out when there's no such obligation on the equivalent paper ticket, and where you clearly have a valid ticket. But I wouldn't rule it out!

That is precisely the rule on the Edinburgh tram. As the system was designed from scratch, I'm not sure why they did it that way (you have to do it on the platform) rather than having the validators on the tram.

For single/return tickets this is because to activate (and sometimes to collect) the ticket you have to touch. If you don't do those things (activation being necessary because you may have more than one and it needs to be able to work out which to use) effectively it's like having a Carnet ticket without the date on it, FWIW.

Neil

 

[tsr]

The main issue you may come across is that a high number of "incomplete" journeys logged could result in the card being deactivated/blacklisted. The reason sometimes given is that this prevents someone accessing the train by touching in at barriers, but holding a ticket for only part of the distance, whereby they then evade the fare for the second portion of the journey. If they did not have to touch out (especially at an unstaffed station) then there would be nothing to show that they may only have held a valid ticket for part of the journey.

I am not saying that this method of operation is necessarily fair to all ticket-holders, especially those who need to undertake complex splitting of tickets in accordance with NRCoC Condition 19.

SWT barriers will not allow a touch-in or touch-out if the barriers are unmanned and set to open - I don't know if Sothern's Key is the same!

Some Southern barriers do seem to have this issue, and as such are accompanied by standalone readers for occasions when the barriers are left open.

 

[sarahj]

If I read your card, a red light might come up on the reader, but the details of whats loaded onto the card is there for me to read, and if your between the stations noted and the date is valid, i'll move on.

Where the issues occur is when folks buy a journey, but dont swipe the card on entry, so nothing is loaded. But so far only come across that once.

 

[cookie365]

Thank you sarahj, I was hoping that would be the experience in practice