Some e-tickets now not changeable (TPE bought through LNER)

[Deerfold]

I've bought Advance tickets from Keighley to Manchester Airport and Return through LNER.

I was surprised to find it's not possible to change these because they're printable tickets - I've been able to change printable tickets on other operators.

Looks like I'll need to remember to select TOD when I buy these - I was wanting to change the return date.

Are there any other operators determined to make life harder in this way?

• Changes to travel plans restrictions​

  
  Changes to time or date of travel must be arranged before departure of the first reserved train printed on the ticket, after which the ticket has no value and a new must be purchased. Customers will need to present the ticket(s) and reservation(s) when they request a change.
  Changes to tickets cannot be made on board the train. If customers board a train without a reservation for that service, a new ticket(s) must be purchased.
  The origin, destination and Train company or route shown on the original tickets must be the same as the new tickets required.
  The difference between the price paid and the cost of the next of the next suitable fare for the journey is payable, plus a £10 administration fee per person, per single ticket for each change to a journey. If the customer(s) change to a train where a cheaper fare is available, the difference will not be refunded, but the administration charge is still applicable.
  Note: This does not apply to 'Self-print' tickets as these tickets are not changeable.

 

[Haywain]

I've bought Advance tickets from Keighley to Manchester Airport and Return through LNER.

I was surprised to find it's not possible to change these because they're printable tickets - I've been able to change printable tickets on other operators.

Looks like I'll need to remember to select TOD when I buy these - I was wanting to change the return date.

Are there any other operators determined to make life harder in this way?

What you have are eTickets, which can be printed, not self-print tickets. However, I can see the scope for confusion and will see if we can get that changed.

 

[Deerfold]

What you have are eTickets, which can be printed, not self-print tickets. However, I can see the scope for confusion and will see if we can get that changed.

The LNER website tells me they can't be changed, so I don't think it's me that's confused.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Currently our change of journey only works for our own tickets, what you need to do with these is refund and rebook.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Currently our change of journey only works for our own tickets, what you need to do with these is refund and rebook.

With respect, how does the certification process allow your site to be certified with such a basic and major flaw?

 

[Wallsendmag]

With respect, how does the certification process allow your site to be certified with such a basic and major flaw?

Because it's a development, most sites including the the gold standard TPRs use refund and rebook. We're trying something different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because it's a development, most sites including the the gold standard TPRs use refund and rebook. We're trying something different.

But it doesn't tell the customer what to do. That is a basic requirement.

Was it really too hard to make it say "You can't change this ticket in this way. What you need to do is...."?

I am sorry but this is truly appalling and will result in customers writing off potentially large sums of money and being very dissatisfied as a result.

Edit: apologies if this post comes across as rude, but the first thing to consider before putting something live would be "will this mislead a customer into paying more on false pretences", and if the answer is "yes", don't put it live. I put pseudocompulsory reservations in the same bracket - First Class tickets will be being sold on false pretences.

 

[Haywain]

The LNER website tells me they can't be changed, so I don't think it's me that's confused.

I think we've got conflicting information in different places which isn't helpful but, in any event, ALL tickets are currently changeable under the Travel with Confidence scheme. These are, for the most part, done as refund and rebook as my colleague mentioned above. Details here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think we've got conflicting information in different places which isn't helpful but, in any event, ALL tickets are currently changeable under the Travel with Confidence scheme. These are, for the most part, done as refund and rebook as my colleague mentioned above. Details here.

What that form doesn't do, from a quick glance, is tell you how to change an Advance closer to the time of travel with the classic £10 fee.

Why is it hard to have all of the correct information in one place? It's really sloppy and is causing people to lose out. It's not just "unhelpful" - it's unacceptable.

The railway really has a massive attitude problem here, and it's not just LNER*. They are quick to have people in Court when they make a minor error e.g. let a Railcard expire. But if you ask them to make sure they have their information up to date, pay Delay Repay when due etc it's a different game.

To me, this system is not fit for purpose and should not have gone live in the form it has. It's that simple. Why do people find it OK to put faulty** IT systems live now? I'm an IT professional, and I don't find it acceptable, and if any manager ever pushes me to do so I always make it very, very clear what the implications of their decision are, and that it is their decision alone, totally unsupported by my professional advice. I consider that the only way for me to properly discharge my professional duties. I will never, ever defend this sort of thing, and nor should any IT professional who deserves being called one.

* I have repeatedly complained to Virgin Trains for having it stated on their website that the way to change the route of a walk up ticket was to refund and replace against a £10 fee - of course totally untrue. It was never fixed, and I think it's still wrong with Avanti. And then you've got the LNR Off Peaks and Super Off Peaks with unimplementable restrictions that mean people being overcharged just because they can't be bothered implementing separate restriction codes for separate origin-destination pairs and instead put it all in one. It simply isn't OK, and I don't get why it is tolerated. Actually, I do get why - the accrediting body is RDG, a group set up solely for the benefit of the TOCs. It simply is not good enough.

** Anyone who says "but the requirements didn't say that" gets an earful. It is similarly incumbent on an IT professional (including throughout testing) to point out bad or missing essential requirements, not just to blindly implement them.

 

[Haywain]

What that form doesn't do, from a quick glance, is tell you how to change an Advance closer to the time of travel with the classic £10 fee.

Maybe, but what @Deerfold is asking about is changing date, and that's, specifically, what I'm trying to answer.

nor should any IT professional who deserves being called one.

I make no claims to being an IT professional.

 

[westv]

As regards the book with confidence, it ends 31.12.2021 (any plans to extend).
Is that for tickets booked prior to 31/12 or is it tickets for travel prior to 31/12?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As regards the book with confidence, it ends 31.12.2021 (any plans to extend).
Is that for tickets booked prior to 31/12 or is it tickets for travel prior to 31/12?

One can only hope that sense is seen and the admin fee for electronic ticket changes (i.e. uncollected ToD and e-tickets) is consigned to the bin permanently. In one move that would make Advances hugely more useful and so improve yield management considerably.

 

[Deerfold]

I think we've got conflicting information in different places which isn't helpful but, in any event, ALL tickets are currently changeable under the Travel with Confidence scheme. These are, for the most part, done as refund and rebook as my colleague mentioned above. Details here.

That's not the message your website gives.

I'm still not sure how I change this ticket.

Add I've mentioned before, years ago East Coast's site managed to let you change tickets. It sounded like all this hassle was only going to be a temporary measure.

At least if you have to refund and rebook, the webpage should tell you that and give details of the steps required to do that.

If I'm confused, as a regular traveller and user of this forum, I'm guessing lots of people will take what they're told at face value, wasting money and being put off using trains.

I make no claims to being an IT professional.

You'd hope LNER employs some somewhere though.

Currently our change of journey only works for our own tickets, what you need to do with these is refund and rebook.

Is that new?

Only a couple of weeks ago I had to refund and rebook on an LNER ticket.

 

[Haywain]

I'm still not sure how I change this ticket.

Follow the link, refund it and buy a new one (or vice versa).

That's not the message your website gives.

I think the message is fairly clear actually:

ADVANCE tickets are usually non-changeable, non-refundable. However, until 31 December 2021, if your plans change, you can amend date and time of Advance tickets fee free up until 18:00 the day before you travel as part of our book with confidence policy – you will need to purchase a new ticket and complete this webform - LNER will refund your original booking fee free.

 

[Deerfold]

Follow the link, refund it and buy a new one (or vice versa).


I think the message is fairly clear actually:

What link?

That message is very clear.

Unfortunately it's not the one I'm given when I look at my ticket and I've no idea where it's from.

You do come across as very customer unfriendly.

If I've not seen the correct information it must be my fault, not your website hiding it and telling me conflicting information.

Are Advance tickets usually non-changeable? I've changed many, albeit for a fee.

 

[Cdd89]

One can only hope that sense is seen and the admin fee for electronic ticket changes (i.e. uncollected ToD and e-tickets) is consigned to the bin permanently

I’m a bit confused about the £10 admin fee (and I’m sure it’s been answered before!). It’s always talked about as though it’s a figure set by NR, but CrossCountry don’t charge it on changes to advances on any operator where the change is made online with them (it is why I use them so often); so why can’t other ticket issuers scrap it too?

(I can understand that a ticket office change may be subject, but realistically returning to the online retailer is not an inconvenience).

 

[Haywain]

What link?

The link I applied in the message that you then quoted. But here it is again: link to refunds and ticket changes page.

You do come across as very customer unfriendly.

I am trying to help.

 

[Deerfold]

The link I applied in the message that you then quoted. But here it is again: link to refunds and ticket changes page.

I am trying to help.

Thank you for the link. I had missed that originally.

You're trying to help, but seem unwilling to accept there may be anything unclear (or just plain wrong) with your system. I still don't know where the correct instructions are on your system.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Change your ticket

All tickets are changable. If you know your new date or time you want to travel, book your new tickets first then fill in the Change of journey and refund form.

You need to do this before 6pm the day before your original tickets are valid.

This is not in compliance with the terms and conditions of Advance tickets, on which changes are allowed up to the scheduled departure time of the first booked train (to a walk-up fare if necessary).

Can you see why I have such a problem with this?

Any additional ticket purchased by a passenger who followed that incorrect and misleading information would arguably have been money obtained contrary to the Fraud Act.

Why was it too hard to put on that page what you should do if it's after 6pm on the day before travel?

Why does the railway like omitting important information when doing so is to its direct financial advantage?

Thank you for the link. I had missed that originally.

You're trying to help, but seem unwilling to accept there may be anything unclear (or just plain wrong) with your system. I still don't know where the correct instructions are on your system.

What you should do is, assuming your journey is not today:

1. Book new tickets
2. Fill in this form: https://lner-refunds.fastrailticketing.com/

I completely agree with you, though, that this website is utterly unfit for purpose.