Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[gimmea50anyday]

I actually overheard from a guard today that the number of guards at Newcastle for TPE is practically doubling, not surprising with the service increases.

And Newcastle will likely be first to be mk5 trained too..



Some of the RG staff who have just joined us are hopeful of making the step up already

 

[Wookiee]

Early train from Southampton to London Bridge this morning delayed for a few minutes while the driver got out and cleaned the cameras. Shouldn't it become part of the nightly cleaning process to clean the carriageside cameras if they're going to be relied upon for DOO?

 

[CentralTrainer]

Early train from Southampton to London Bridge this morning delayed for a few minutes while the driver got out and cleaned the cameras. Shouldn't it become part of the nightly cleaning process to clean the carriageside cameras if they're going to be relied upon for DOO?

It'll still happen if they became dirty en route on daily workings though.

 

[tsr]

Early train from Southampton to London Bridge this morning delayed for a few minutes while the driver got out and cleaned the cameras. Shouldn't it become part of the nightly cleaning process to clean the carriageside cameras if they're going to be relied upon for DOO?

Train cleaners have a special tool to clean them at certain turnaround stations now, though I shouldn't think Southampton Central is one of those!

 

[Wookiee]

Train cleaners have a special tool to clean them at certain turnaround stations now, though I shouldn't think Southampton Central is one of those!

Not sure if the problem was with the 4xSOU section or the 8xBOG. I was in the SOU section at the rear of the train and I didn't notice the driver come that far down the platform. I guess it would have just been a few specific cameras rather than all of them, given that we only stopped in Arundel for four minutes or so.

 

[infobleep]

The 6.40 to Bognor Regus to Victoria had the pass comments pulled towards Purley this morning. It took 34 minutes to sort out before it teeminated short at East Croydon.

Did that service have had an OBS; guard or no one? If there was an additional person, did they play any part in dealing with the situation.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Train cleaners have a special tool to clean them at certain turnaround stations now, though I shouldn't think Southampton Central is one of those!

I'd like to think that staff would refer to a tool that assists with getting the cameras back into service as a "Wilkinson".


"Bob - go fetch the Wilkinson - there's a load of manure on the camera on carriage 3..."

 

[BestWestern]

I'd like to think that staff would refer to a tool that assists with getting the cameras back into service as a "Wilkinson".


"Bob - go fetch the Wilkinson - there's a load of manure on the camera on carriage 3..."

Wot, there are TWO staff involved in the task? That'll get Horton's back up

 

[tsr]

The 6.40 to Bognor Regus to Victoria had the pass comments pulled towards Purley this morning. It took 34 minutes to sort out before it teeminated short at East Croydon.

Did that service have had an OBS; guard or no one? If there was an additional person, did they play any part in dealing with the situation.

Another delay due to a smoke alarm activation. Caused a fair bit of congestion on a day when it was least needed.

I've never known any conductor-worked 377 I've been involved with to be halted in such an awkward place due to a smoke alarm activation (as opposed to an actual fire or smoke, which are a bit different). But anyway, what do I know?

I'd like to think that staff would refer to a tool that assists with getting the cameras back into service as a "Wilkinson".


"Bob - go fetch the Wilkinson - there's a load of manure on the camera on carriage 3..."

I reckon that name will stick, perhaps much like the manure...

 

[Tetchytyke]

"Bob - go fetch the Wilkinson - there's a load of Horton on the camera on carriage 3..."

Fixed that for you

 

[CentralTrainer]

Fixed that for you

I like it

 

[infobleep]

Another delay due to a smoke alarm activation. Caused a fair bit of congestion on a day when it was least needed.

I've never known any conductor-worked 377 I've been involved with to be halted in such an awkward place due to a smoke alarm activation (as opposed to an actual fire or smoke, which are a bit different). But anyway, what do I know?



I reckon that name will stick, perhaps much like the manure... [emoji38]

Thanks for that. They said at East Croydon it was smoke alarm but as it said passenger alarm online I thought maybe the reason had changed as more information was known.

East Crodyon station was busy. I boarded the 8.11 but they were telling people who couldn't board this, another train to Clapham Junction would be along in a few minutes. I thought that a few minutes might be to long a wait to make a connection, bearing in mind I should have been on the 8.01.

Sure enough, the next train didn't depart until 8.19. At least that train was able to switch to another platform through Purley and not get stuck behind the other train.

 

[Moonshot]

Another delay due to a smoke alarm activation. Caused a fair bit of congestion on a day when it was least needed.

I've never known any conductor-worked 377 I've been involved with to be halted in such an awkward place due to a smoke alarm activation (as opposed to an actual fire or smoke, which are a bit different). But anyway, what do I know?



I reckon that name will stick, perhaps much like the manure...

Sorry ...just to clear this one up .....was there a guard on this service ? Or was it just one driver who actually dealt with the alarm ?

 

[Carlisle]

The 6.40 to Bognor Regus to Victoria had the pass comments pulled towards Purley this morning. It took 34 minutes to sort out before it teeminated short at East Croydon.

Did that service have had an OBS; guard or no one? If there was an additional person, did they play any part in dealing with the situation.

A recent OBS job vacany advert someone posted on here stated one of its requirements was assisting drivers with various alarm activations that may occur,

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If any day chosen by a rail union for strike action has been formerly announced, then weather systems such as Storm Doris arrives, can they claim another strike day in lieu?...

 

[kw12]

If any day chosen by a rail union for strike action has been formerly announced, then weather systems such as Storm Doris arrives, can they claim another strike day in lieu?...

Browsing websites such as Real-Time Trains, Open Train Times and Recent Train Times (all of which use open data feeds from Network Rail) it can be seen that on many routes Doris caused significantly more cancellations than Wednesday's strike.

It does not seem to be possible to gets stats from these websites for Southern as a whole, but here are some stats for selected routes on the number of trains that actually ran on them on Wednesday (strike) and Thursday (Doris). For comparison, I have also shown how many trains ran on these routes last Wednesday (15th), which as far as I am aware was a normal day. For each pair of stations, the stats are listed in chronological order, with the number that ran on 15th first, then 22nd followed by 23rd. They show the number of through passenger trains that ran from the first station to the second station (in the stated direction) anytime that day.

Clapham Junction - Watford Junction 20 0 12
Victoria - East Croydon 265 268 220
Victoria - Redhill 56 57 49
Victoria - Gatwick Airport 199 212 163
Victoria - Horsham 81 80 44
Victoria - Brighton 62 59 59
Victoria - Lewes 29 30 26
London Bridge - Uckfield 18 21 15
London Bridge - Littlehampton 3 1 2
London Bridge - Eastbourne 2 1 0
East Croydon - East Grinstead 43 43 38
East Croydon - Uckfield 19 22 15
Horsham - Barnham 54 54 32
Barnham - Bognor Regis 67 64 54
Barnham - Portsmouth & Southsea 45 39 37
Barnham - Southampton Ctl 29 23 22
Barnham - Brighton 38 36 39
Brighton - Lewes 86 84 77
Lewes - Seaford 36 36 30
Lewes - Eastbourne 64 64 55
Eastbourne - Hastings 48 50 37
Hastings - Ashford 18 15 9
Epsom - Guildford 4 0 4


This is not a comprehensive set of routes, but I think it includes most of the routes that retain conductors. Some services may appear in multiple groups (e.g Victoria - East Croydon and then East Croydon - East Grinstead).

Unless I've made some mistakes, across this set of routes the number of trains that ran on 15th was 1286, with just 27 less during the strike and a total of 1039 yesterday. It would be interesting to know what the PPM stats were on those days for Southern/Gatwick Express as a whole.

 

[tsr]

Regarding the post above, it must be stressed that those routes in the list which retain conductors for all services on the whole route (as opposed to a selection, based on route knowledge retention or traction type) are:

Clapham Junction - Watford Junction
London Bridge - Uckfield
East Croydon - Uckfield
Hastings - Ashford
Epsom - Guildford

All the remaining routes are cleared for DOO(P) for either their whole length, or part of it, and would have run as such with regards to at least some services running on Wednesday.

 

[pompeyfan]

Regarding the post above, it must be stressed that those routes in the list which retain conductors for all services on the whole route (as opposed to a selection, based on route knowledge retention or traction type) are:

Clapham Junction - Watford Junction
London Bridge - Uckfield
East Croydon - Uckfield
Hastings - Ashford
Epsom - Guildford

All the remaining routes are cleared for DOO(P) for either their whole length, or part of it, and would have run as such with regards to at least some services running on Wednesday.

I'd assume any 313s that were running around, were being crewed by management with appropriate training?

 

[tsr]

Sorry ...just to clear this one up .....was there a guard on this service ? Or was it just one driver who actually dealt with the alarm ?

I understand that the driver dealt with the problem.

A recent OBS job vacany advert someone posted on here stated one of its requirements was assisting drivers with various alarm activations that may occur,

That doesn't mean the OBS is guaranteed to be on the train, nor that they were given full training on dealing with fires and smoke alarms...

I'd assume any 313s that were running around, were being crewed by management with appropriate training?

Potentially, yes, but some conductors did also turn up for work.

 

[WatcherZero]

So apparently RMT have asked for talks with Southern as they may have misinterpreted the ASLEF deal (not as bad as RMT first thought) and are seeking clarification, however simultaneously they are considering balloting members to intensify strikes.

 

[Robertj21a]

So apparently RMT have asked for talks with Southern as they may have misinterpreted the ASLEF deal (not as bad as RMT first thought) and are seeking clarification, however simultaneously they are considering balloting members to intensify strikes.

At this rate the RMT will need a bit of media exposure to clearly explain what they think any more strikes will achieve. Haven't their members lost enough money already ?

 

[hwl]

So apparently RMT have asked for talks with Southern as they may have misinterpreted the ASLEF deal (not as bad as RMT first thought) and are seeking clarification, however simultaneously they are considering balloting members to intensify strikes.

Given that 54% of Conductors /OBS turned up for work during the strike according to GTR a positive vote for intensifying action may not be certain?

 

[Barn]

I'm slightly struggling to see what the RMT trade dispute officially even is nowadays. Is it really that "we don't have enough duties for the pay we get"?

 

[infobleep]

Given that 54% of Conductors /OBS turned up for work during the strike according to GTR a positive vote for intensifying action may not be certain?

I wonder what percentage of the new recruits are not part of the RMT. Clearly GTR wouldn't know.

 

[HH]

I wonder what percentage of the hem erred new recruit not part of the RMT. Clearly GTR epiphany know.

I guess if they really were smart they could get psychometrics to frame questions that would point to the probability of joining a union. I don't get the feeling that GTR are that smart though (and I say that through personal contact).

 

[Carlisle]

So apparently RMT have asked for talks with Southern as they may have misinterpreted the ASLEF deal (not as bad as RMT first thought) and are seeking clarification, however simultaneously they are considering balloting members to intensify strikes.

The RMTs probably not suicidal, if the drivers settle soon, so probably will the RMT, however if ASLEF members continue to oppose a deal and go back on strike I suspect the RMT want the ability to intensify future action alongside their sister union, if that's what they deem appropriate

 

[BestWestern]

I'd assume any 313s that were running around, were being crewed by management with appropriate training?

Whether or not management strikebreaking training could ever be deemed appropriate is a matter of opinion. Borderline minimal training would be more accurate.

 

[tsr]

Whether or not management strikebreaking training could ever be deemed appropriate is a matter of opinion. Borderline minimal training would be more accurate.

On balance, probably better than an OBS, with potentially even less training and virtually no safety responsibilities whatsoever!

P.S. Do be aware that not all of GTR's contingency conductors are actually managers.

 

[455driver]

That's what I'm trying to understand !

I know they've recruited a number of new staff for OBS positions, and not many (?) guards have left , so there is, presumably, an overall net increase. From other comments, many new OBS recruits are still in training so I suppose Southern may be correct.

Or maybe the increase in staff numbers doesnt compensate for the existing staff no longer being allowed to work rest days/overtime?

 

[455driver]

The 6.40 to Bognor Regus to Victoria had the pass comments pulled towards Purley this morning. It took 34 minutes to sort out before it teeminated short at East Croydon.

Did that service have had an OBS; guard or no one? If there was an additional person, did they play any part in dealing with the situation.

As the OBS wont be safety critical they wont be trained to reset passcomms etc, that will be down to the driver.