Almost two weeks ago...Sorry I know it’s been mentioned but when is the revised timetable uploaded into planners ? I know it’s imminent …
Times are now on RTT, with the SWR stopping service retimed.
I assume they mean the ‘official’ National Rail Enquiries rather than real time trains or the TrainlineEDIT: Southern are stating on their website that it’s 11th March for the upload of the new timetable.
Post #218 explained what will happen:
“Southern will pull out of St Denys, Bitterne, Sholing, Hamble and Bursledon completely”. Netley gets two calls per day towards Southampton only.
But when I checked on RTT a couple of weeks ago most of those stations will get extra peak calls from SWR at a similar time of day, so short distance travel into Southampton should not be affected. There’s an SWR all stations that starts from Fareham P2 at 0751, which is extra compared to the standard hourly pattern.
Have often thought that the suburban Southampton stations near where the students live have untapped demand.St Denys does seem to loose out on balance in terms of evening departures due to the loss of the Southern trains. However, the one positive for St Denys is the standard 2 departures to Southampton Central are now separated by 9 minutes instead of by 1 minute. I think it's a shame Southern couldn't have added St Denys to some of the Brighton services, as the station is convenient for a lot of students who would probably want to be travelling to Brighton, and Woolston > St Denys > Central is much more useful locally than Woolston > Central.
St Denys is more convenient for me to use, but it's sparse service means the majority of time I go to Central and almost always buy tickets from Central and only using St Denys if a beneficial connection is available.Have often thought that the suburban Southampton stations near where the students live have untapped demand.
I suppose maybe southern could keep that under passive review, and perhaps they could add some calls to those stations again someday if demand was ever to increase (maybe if a major housing development came up or something along those lines that bumped up the usage). In general, I think with Southampton's suburban stations, they just don't seem to be treated by SWR in the way southern treat their south coast suburban stations such as Aldrington, Fishersgate and East worthing further on the west coastway, which all had half-hourly services before the pandemic (although Aldrington and Fishersgate don't get that return because of the changes made to the original plan, although east worthing will remain at half-hourly), or the suburban stations east of Brighton like London Road and Moulsecoomb (albeit, that has a university nearby which contributes to its usage in part). I reckon the best way to increase their frequency in the long term both at peak times and off-peak times would be for SWR to introduce the extra Portsmouth to Southampton services they promised when they won their contract from SWT in 2017, and have not delivered, which they might be enticed to do under a DfT not under the control of Tories who want services cut to save money with a pompus argument that usage is down, not realising one of the reasons for this is the poor service post-covid putting some people off travelling by train in the first place.Have often thought that the suburban Southampton stations near where the students live have untapped demand.
On a completely unrelated note, when is this meant to come out? Because I checked southern's website, and it still shows the December 2023 timetable changes. Will it be shown on a very specific website.I assume they mean the ‘official’ National Rail Enquiries rather than real time trains or the Trainline
St Denys has the University of Southampton nearbyI suppose maybe southern could keep that under passive review, and perhaps they could add some calls to those stations again someday if demand was ever to increase (maybe if a major housing development came up or something along those lines that bumped up the usage). In general, I think with Southampton's suburban stations, they just don't seem to be treated by SWR in the way southern treat their south coast suburban stations such as Aldrington, Fishersgate and East worthing further on the west coastway, which all had half-hourly services before the pandemic (although Aldrington and Fishersgate don't get that return because of the changes made to the original plan, although east worthing will remain at half-hourly), or the suburban stations east of Brighton like London Road and Moulsecoomb (albeit, that has a university nearby which contributes to its usage in part). I reckon the best way to increase their frequency in the long term both at peak times and off-peak times would be for SWR to introduce the extra Portsmouth to Southampton services they promised when they won their contract from SWT in 2017, and have not delivered, which they might be enticed to do under a DfT not under the control of Tories who want services cut to save money with a pompus argument that usage is down, not realising one of the reasons for this is the poor service post-covid putting some people off travelling by train in the first place.
On a completely unrelated note, when is this meant to come out? Because I checked southern's website, and it still shows the December 2023 timetable changes. Will it be shown on a very specific website.
I reckon the best way to increase their frequency in the long term both at peak times and off-peak times would be for SWR to introduce the extra Portsmouth to Southampton services they promised when they won their contract from SWT in 2017… […]
Indeed, although people protested about Netley and Woolston not getting extra stops and it was altered to that those two stations were included in the new SWR semifast serviceThe planned additional SWR service would have been a very limited stop service, and I suspect there is no longer a path available for it when combined with the latest SN 2 tph timings, especially if still leaving room for the GWR service. The Netley Line has only 2 aspect signalling and long block sections, overall capacity is poor..
In the initial 2018 consultation timetables the new Weymouth to Portsmouth incorporated the all stations stopper, and the additional Southampton to Portsmouth SWR service would only called at St Denys and Swanwick then all stations from Fareham, with just a few extra early and late calls at Woolston and Netley. By 2020 it had become a Bournemouth to Portsmouth, but I don’t think a timetable was ever put online. I doubt it will ever be introduced following the SN changes.
True, but I suspect more use Southampton Airport Parkway (as I remember a student saying to me at some point on an open day) or Southampton Central. Then again, which station a student uses depends on the subject a student is taking, because the campuses are more spread out than some other universities like University of Sussex, where nearly all students use Falmer station.St Denys has the University of Southampton nearby
That is a fair point, although maybe in another timetable change that could be reviewed as to how to path 1 additional train on the section, but quite radical changes would likely be needed for southern, which I doubt they would be keen on after years of developing a new timetable (because a report published in 2020 bears some resemblance, such as running trains via Littlehampton in the first place). Whether any changes could happen depend on whether southern's services are successful overall, and maybe then network rail might think about upgrading the line to increase capacity, and in turn the number of trains that could run over the section. In general, the layout at Southampton just makes it harder to path trains through compared to other places like Portsmouth on its own branchline, and Brighton where coastway trains don't have to share with the Brighton mainline, because in the case of southampton, (the mainline and both of the coastway lines) are generally segregated at Brighton (other than at platform 3, but that's quite rare) it has to share track with the SW mainline, reducing paths available into southampton itself.The planned additional SWR service would have been a very limited stop service, and I suspect there is no longer a path available for it when combined with the latest SN 2 tph timings, especially if still leaving room for the GWR service. The Netley Line has only 2 aspect signalling and long block sections, overall capacity is poor..
In the initial 2018 consultation timetables the new Weymouth to Portsmouth incorporated the all stations stopper, and the additional Southampton to Portsmouth SWR service would only called at St Denys and Swanwick then all stations from Fareham, with just a few extra early and late calls at Woolston and Netley. By 2020 it had become a Bournemouth to Portsmouth, but I don’t think a timetable was ever put online. I doubt it will ever be introduced following the SN changes.
Have often thought that the suburban Southampton stations near where the students live have untapped demand.
But doesn't Soton Uni run bus services?Have often thought that the suburban Southampton stations near where the students live have untapped demand.
Unilink. I think geographic coverage around the necessary sites especially the General Hospital, is far better than the train could ever be.:But doesn't Soton Uni run bus services?
Unilink bus travel was created in 2001 to transport Southampton University staff and students between teaching sites and halls of residence, whilst also providing a bus service that is open for everyone to use.
Since the Unilink bus service launch, the network has grown significantly. Our bus travel services have become some of the most popular in Southampton. Unilink bus services has continued to grow year-on-year since 2001.
We believe in investing in new buses regularly, to keep up with the latest technology available. In August 2018 we introduced 32 brand new British built ADL Enviro 400MMC buses, all with Euro 6 engines helping Southampton meet its air quality targets.
On the topic of bus services, what are they like around Woolston station, because they must be good if southern are going to upgrade the service, but I'm not familiar with southampton buses.Unilink. I think geographic coverage around the necessary sites especially the General Hospital, is far better than the train could ever be.:
Southern’s original consultation quoted in post #1 definitely mentions the potential for interchange with the bus service from Woolston.On the topic of bus services, what are they like around Woolston station, because they must be good if southern are going to upgrade the service, but I'm not familiar with southampton buses.
Southern’s original consultation quoted in post #1 definitely mentions the potential for interchange with the bus service from Woolston.
The Itchen bridge is right outside the station, and a number of bus routes from the wider area to the south and east of Woolston converge there for the short leap over the River Itchen directly towards the south end of the City Centre, and that will be a fairly high combined frequency. I don’t know any details though, on the few occasions I travel into Southampton by road I usually head in over Northam Bridge, past Bitterne station, or through Swaythling.
But I‘m sure they’re right that it will be quicker to certain parts of the City than doubling back from Southampton Central station.
9 buses crossing the Itchen Bridge westbound from southern Woolston in the next hour, which is still semi-peak time but in general there's good connectivity between Woolston and the centre of town by bus. If you're heading for the east of the centre e.g. Ocean Village / Oxford Street, you'd get there faster walking than if you stayed on the train.On the topic of bus services, what are they like around Woolston station, because they must be good if southern are going to upgrade the service, but I'm not familiar with southampton buses.
Thank you, I had basically only heard about it, wasn't sure how frequent it was though. To be fair, I can see myself sometimes getting out there for the bus if I can think of something to do in the east of southampton (just like I sometimes getting out at Portsmouth & Southsea instead of Portsmouth Harbour if I can think of something to do in the city centre before going down to Gunwharf quays on foot, or even by train if I'm I can't be bothered). I can imagine that the usage of Woolston is likely to greatly increase, and I can imagine more buses coming in the future if it proves popular. The main thing that southern does need to do though is modify sunday services to include a call at Woolston on their singular southampton service (and at Portchester and Southbourne at the same time, which also lack services to southampton operated by southern on sunday), because it will make no sense to have a great alternative route into Southampton Monday to Saturday, but have to travel back to the past and double back at Southampton Central on Sunday, which will put journey times for unneccessary reasons.9 buses crossing the Itchen Bridge westbound from southern Woolston in the next hour, which is still semi-peak time but in general there's good connectivity between Woolston and the centre of town by bus. If you're heading for the east of the centre e.g. Ocean Village / Oxford Street, you'd get there faster walking than if you stayed on the train.
The Sholing-Woolston area itself is pretty built up so even if the bus connections are not as good as Southern imagine, I think the extra stops are still worth it and will be more convenient for a lot of customers.On the topic of bus services, what are they like around Woolston station, because they must be good if southern are going to upgrade the service, but I'm not familiar with southampton buses.
Good point.The Sholing-Woolston area itself is pretty built up so even if the bus connections are not as good as Southern imagine, I think the extra stops are still worth it and will be more convenient for a lot of customers.
Better connectivity across the Coastway, and with a same-platform interchange at Barnham for Gatwick/London. Imo it's a wini keep seeing the new service pattern on the west coastway and i am just confused why is there 2 lines of brighton and southampton and getting rid of the Southampton to london trains (as if the original route is already long as it is) ?
Southern explained their thinking behind this change on their website page for the changes: www.southernrailway.com/westcoastwayi keep seeing the new service pattern on the west coastway and i am just confused why is there 2 lines of brighton and southampton and getting rid of the Southampton to london trains (as if the original route is already long as it is) ?
Services at Southampton and Portsmouth will be a standard half an hour apart, instead of 15/45 mins and there’ll be more reliable turnarounds. It was explained in post #1 of this thread, which is a quote from SN’s original consultation. I noted that the main stations towards Southampton will have a much better spread of fast services around the hour, at the moment they all run in a group in a short 15 min period.i keep seeing the new service pattern on the west coastway and i am just confused why is there 2 lines of brighton and southampton and getting rid of the Southampton to london trains (as if the original route is already long as it is) ?
I have just noticed that Brighton to Chichester and Barnham to Bognor Regis will be standard class only whilst everything else will have first class. Sounds like a recipe for confusion.The track access changes application is now on the Network rail website. As well as form P the relevant appendices are available to download including the business plan and performance modelling.
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I have just noticed that Brighton to Chichester and Barnham to Bognor Regis will be standard class only whilst everything else will have first class. Sounds like a recipe for confusion.
This was long the case due to the 313s anyway, so it's not new confusion. Do the 377/3s not have first? That would explain it I thinkDefinitely there, unless Southern are trying to follow South Eastern/London Northwestern and ditching 1st class to allow them to spin a "extra 20 seats per train available" and haven't announced it officially yet
The 377/3s have first class availableThis was long the case due to the 313s anyway, so it's not new confusion. Do the 377/3s not have first? That would explain it I think