Split footbridges for lifts vs. stairs (Chester and Lancaster)

[Bletchleyite]

Something on a FB group reminded me of a quirk of Chester and Lancaster stations, namely that they have totally separated parts of the same footbridge, with access only via the lifts on one side and only via the stairs on the other. Chester it appears has a gate in the middle to get between the two sides (now just left open), Lancaster however doesn't and the two sides are completely separate for the full length of the bridge.

I can't think of any other stations like this (though there could well be).

Given that lifts will have been a modern addition, does anyone know why these two stations are like this? Was it for a paid vs. unpaid side, or a passenger vs. goods side, or something else?

 

[DarloRich]

also potentially an aesthetic thing: how do we hide modern lift equipment within the fabric of this listed building.

 

[Bletchleyite]

also potentially an aesthetic thing: how do we hide modern lift equipment within the fabric of this listed building.

In terms of deciding where to put the lifts when they weren't there, yes - but presumably the bridges were split before the lifts even existed? Or might there have been some sort of basic goods lift there ever since the bridges existed?

The split in Chester is a handrail which while old was presumably added at some point and has a gate. At Lancaster it looks structural, almost as if it was a widening of the bridge by adding a second half to it but without removing the division.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I think Coventry is/was like that. Carrying something heavy and expected to go up in the lift but be able to walk down stairs to save time but couldn't.

 

[robbob700]

I can't think of any other stations like this (though there could well be)

Southampton Central is like this as well

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Coventry is/was like that. Carrying something heavy and expected to go up in the lift but be able to walk down stairs to save time but couldn't.

Thinking on when I was doing my "city running" project I think I came across it in Cov, wanted to go up in the lift because I was so knackered, but would have been fine going down the stairs but couldn't. Similarly annoying with a bike, as carrying up is difficult but down much easier.

 

[swt_passenger]

Something on a FB group reminded me of a quirk of Chester and Lancaster stations, namely that they have totally separated parts of the same footbridge, with access only via the lifts on one side and only via the stairs on the other. Chester it appears has a gate in the middle to get between the two sides (now just left open), Lancaster however doesn't and the two sides are completely separate for the full length of the bridge.

I can't think of any other stations like this (though there could well be).

Given that lifts will have been a modern addition, does anyone know why these two stations are like this? Was it for a paid vs. unpaid side, or a passenger vs. goods side, or something else?

Southampton Central (already mentioned). I think the usual history is that the lifts were originally provided for parcels or post office use, and their overbridge was separate to the public route via stairs. Southampton has an opening between passageways now in the middle above P2/3 island, but the bridges still basically function as separate routes.

At Surbiton there’s another scenario, the parcels bridge with the lifts is on a different higher level of the main pedestrian bridge.

I think there might be split subways on a similar basis, I know before the Reading upgrade there was a split subway across the station, (now the public ‘outside’ subway), and it include a separated section with lifts in it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Someone has now posted on that FB group saying at Lancaster it was a goods/passenger split, with the lifts being for goods only.

 

[AndyW33]

Certainly Lancaster has had lifts for decades. The present lifts are for use by passengers, their predecessors were goods lifts used for getting trolleys full of parcels or mailbags from one side of the station to the other. That's why the bridge was segregated - to stop passengers and trolleys conflicting. Some other stations had completely separate bridges or subways for this purpose instead.

 

[seagull]

In terms of deciding where to put the lifts when they weren't there, yes - but presumably the bridges were split before the lifts even existed? Or might there have been some sort of basic goods lift there ever since the bridges existed?

I would guess that the lifts were originally goods-only and were installed with the footbridges, hence the separation.
Wolverhampton had a goods-only lift still used regularly by catering supplies at least until the new station building works recently - passenger lifts only came about with the brand new footbridge at the north end.

 

[swt_passenger]

Someone has now posted on that FB group saying at Lancaster it was a goods/passenger split, with the lifts being for goods only.

I think looked at nationally there’ll be a large number of goods lifts and physically separate routes converted to passenger standard. Parallel bridges built together intentionally at the same time will probably be a minority.

Presumably PRM access was usually achieved by barrow crossings, does anyone know if parcels routes and lifts were ever used unofficially?

 

[Leslie Fletcher]

Llandudno Junction has a stairs/lifts split footbridge with, I think, no access from one to the other except at the not much used Platform 4 end. If I remember rightly there always were lifts, for parcels &c. Lifts for public use are a fairly recent thing.

 

[Ken H]

I would guess that the lifts were originally goods-only and were installed with the footbridges, hence the separation.
Wolverhampton had a goods-only lift still used regularly by catering supplies at least until the new station building works recently - passenger lifts only came about with the brand new footbridge at the north end.

This is exactly how it was. Remember it well at Lancaster and Stafford. Whether the goods lifts were replaced for passenger use or tarted up i dont know

 

[JaJaWa]

I believe there's at least one station where the lift comes out on a separate level on the footbridge

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe there's at least one station where the lift comes out on a separate level on the footbridge

Yes, I mentioned Surbiton earlier.

 

[Steddenm]

Nuneaton used to be split I think up until Platforms 6 and 7 opened.

 

[DarloRich]

could the split be to keep passengers and mail/parcel trolleys apart?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Something on a FB group reminded me of a quirk of Chester and Lancaster stations, namely that they have totally separated parts of the same footbridge, with access only via the lifts on one side and only via the stairs on the other. Chester it appears has a gate in the middle to get between the two sides (now just left open), Lancaster however doesn't and the two sides are completely separate for the full length of the bridge.

I can't think of any other stations like this (though there could well be).

Given that lifts will have been a modern addition, does anyone know why these two stations are like this? Was it for a paid vs. unpaid side, or a passenger vs. goods side, or something else?

Llandudno Junction , Rhyl, Bangor to name just a few others that still have the same . It is a very old British Rail Style thing from when parcels and luggage where transported a lot more I think.

 

[Bletchleyite]

could the split be to keep passengers and mail/parcel trolleys apart?

It's increasingly seeming to be the consensus that that is indeed the reason, with the lifts converted later to passenger use but the bridges not modified, presumably due to the cost of doing so not being justified.

 

[py_megapixel]

Hove is like this too though it's a subway rather than a bridge

 

[Deafdoggie]

I remember as a small boy at Chester and Llandudno Junction it kept lift and passenger traffic separate. If you wanted to use a lift you had to have a member of staff with you. The same applied at Crewe, although the lifts there opened onto the main pedestrian bridge as parcels used the non-public subway. Stoke was the opposite way round with the public in the subway and parcels on the bridge. I guess the reason was to avoid running people over with trolleys!
Stafford is a more recent split (though still BR era) but the lift side of the bridge went straight into the Royal Mail depot.

 

[edwin_m]

I remember as a small boy at Chester and Llandudno Junction it kept lift and passenger traffic separate. If you wanted to use a lift you had to have a member of staff with you. The same applied at Crewe, although the lifts there opened onto the main pedestrian bridge as parcels used the non-public subway. Stoke was the opposite way round with the public in the subway and parcels on the bridge. I guess the reason was to avoid running people over with trolleys!

Before the rebuilding most of the platform lifts at New Street went down to a rather dingy subway which was almost certainly intended for parcels originally. There were only a couple of lifts that went up to concourse level, which I think served a platform on the way, and I think they actually emerged on the taxi rank outside the eastern entrance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Before the rebuilding most of the platform lifts at New Street went down to a rather dingy subway which was almost certainly intended for parcels originally. There were only a couple of lifts that went up to concourse level, which I think served a platform on the way, and I think they actually emerged on the taxi rank outside the eastern entrance.

It did indeed - I think only one but maybe two. I used to specifically use them to avoid the ticket barriers (while being in possession of a valid ticket) if I had my hands full or wanting to avoid pointless arguments about break of journey, though they did occasionally do a specific block there just as Merseyrail do at Lime St lift (and the staff there always seem visibly disappointed when a ticket is produced).

 

[Crossover]

Dewsbury is kind of similar. It is open at one end (ticket barrier excepting) but otherwise the stairs/lifts are separate sections of the bridge

 

[edwin_m]

Interesting most of these stations were built by the LNWR. Perhaps they were particularly keen on making sure luggage and parcels were kept separate from passenger routes.

 

[Efini92]

Before the rebuilding most of the platform lifts at New Street went down to a rather dingy subway which was almost certainly intended for parcels originally. There were only a couple of lifts that went up to concourse level, which I think served a platform on the way, and I think they actually emerged on the taxi rank outside the eastern entrance.

I believe that subway extended all the way to the old Royal mail depot, where the mailbox is today.

 

[507020]

Certainly Lancaster has had lifts for decades. The present lifts are for use by passengers, their predecessors were goods lifts used for getting trolleys full of parcels or mailbags from one side of the station to the other. That's why the bridge was segregated - to stop passengers and trolleys conflicting. Some other stations had completely separate bridges or subways for this purpose instead.

Was one of these stations Preston? It currently has signs to “Subway” which refer to two separate places. There is a main subway which serves effectively as an inverted footbridge just below platform level from where there is no reduction in noise compared to being on the platform, but also a second deeper which is access only via lifts and also completely silent. It goes all the way to the mail platform, but the section beyond a door is not yet accessible to passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was one of these stations Preston? It currently has signs to “Subway” which refer to two separate places. There is a main subway which serves effectively as an inverted footbridge just below platform level from where there is no reduction in noise compared to being on the platform, but also a second deeper which is access only via lifts and also completely silent. It goes all the way to the mail platform, but the section beyond a door is not yet accessible to passengers.

I didn't know until today that Preston does have two! Must never have used the lifts.

The "shallow" one also goes to the mail platform.

 

[Efini92]

I didn't know until today that Preston does have two! Must never have used the lifts.

The second subway is like entering the twilight zone. There’s no normal access unless using the lifts.

 

[507020]

I didn't know until today that Preston does have two! Must never have used the lifts.

The "shallow" one also goes to the mail platform.

It’s very easy not to realise and not to use the lifts, but I would recommend going down there if you are ever at Preston.

The second subway is like entering the twilight zone. There’s no normal access unless using the lifts.

There actually is. The last time I went there I noticed there was a door which was open with access to the other subway and ramp between platforms 3 and 4 up a few steps which is even more like exiting the twilight zone and the time before that the door at the end was open with someone bringing a delivery through from the mail platform.