St Pancras International Departure Hall - One potential solution for overcrowding

[GingerSte]

Hi.

A few posters on the International board have talked about the lack of space in the existing international departure hall at St Pancras. I know I've seen it busy myself.

Some people mentioned using the arrivals hall to somehow deal with departures aswell. Below is my suggestion of one way it could be done.

Essentially, small lobbies would be added at the bottom of each of the escalators currently used for arrival. There would be one set of doors straight ahead as you reach the bottom of the escalator, and one to each side.

• For arrivals, the doors straight ahead would be opened and those to the side locked. This would then lead to a corridor and to customs, which would be moved to some of the retail area.
• For departures, the side doors would be opened and the forward doors locked. The escalators would also be reversed.

Obviously you wouldn't want arrivals and departures to be on the same pair of platforms at the same time, but this would be sorted by operations.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The only issue with that is you'd be blocking one of the cross-routes through to King's Cross; the are you've marked as "New Waiting Area" is one of the few side to side ways. Are you planning on diverting everyone who wants to get to King's Cross round the top way ( where the Thameslink comes up )? It's already quite crowded that way.

I do agree that on the face of it your idea does provide a lot of extra capacity for relatively little effort and it does deserve a closer look at.

 

[zwk500]

I think the amount of space you'd actually be able to release wouldn't be as much as people think. The best thing you could do is a similar concept, but moving the Premier lounge to the current arrivals space and releasing a bit more space in the existing departure lounge for standard customers.
The smaller number of passengers travelling on the expensive tickets who expect a more personal touch would be easier to manage to avoid conflicting arrivals traffic.

 

[GingerSte]

The only issue with that is you'd be blocking one of the cross-routes through to King's Cross; the are you've marked as "New Waiting Area" is one of the few side to side ways. Are you planning on diverting everyone who wants to get to King's Cross round the top way ( where the Thameslink comes up )? It's already quite crowded that way.

I do agree that on the face of it your idea does provide a lot of extra capacity for relatively little effort and it does deserve a closer look at.

I apologise if I wasn't clear, but I was intending on this area to be just to the south of that passageway to the entrance opposite KX. Essentially where the Eurostar ticket office is currently. The ticket office could move to one of the retail units on the other side of the main concourse.

I think the amount of space you'd actually be able to release wouldn't be as much as people think. The best thing you could do is a similar concept, but moving the Premier lounge to the current arrivals space and releasing a bit more space in the existing departure lounge for standard customers.
The smaller number of passengers travelling on the expensive tickets who expect a more personal touch would be easier to manage to avoid conflicting arrivals traffic.

That's also do-able. Or move Standard Premier passengers to this side and keep Business Premier passengers where they are.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I apologise if I wasn't clear, but I was intending on this area to be just to the south of that passageway to the entrance opposite KX. Essentially where the Eurostar ticket office is currently. The ticket office could move to one of the retail units on the other side of the main concourse.

The thing is... as it is at present, the Eurostar ticket office is on the south side of the passageway and the queue system and check in / security is on the north side of that passageway.

 

[GingerSte]

The thing is... as it is at present, the Eurostar ticket office is on the south side of the passageway and the queue system and check in / security is on the north side of that passageway.

There would be a separate queue system, check in and security for these passengers, all of which would be on the south side of the passageway to KX. (Whether it be a different TOC, or a different class of ticket.)

 

[zwk500]

The thing is... as it is at present, the Eurostar ticket office is on the south side of the passageway and the queue system and check in / security is on the north side of that passageway.

The passageway isn't that important in the scheme of things. In my experience of queuing for Eurostar, I've never seen too many people using the passageway as opposed to the much more obvious entrances at either end of the original building.
However passenger flow within the Eurostar terminal is rather important, as is the service provision as Eurostar, even in standard, is sold as a product above the bottom end. Building 2 separate halves of standard passengers seems slightly self-defeating as the check-in process will be delayed with people trying to get to the right end, the boarding process will be slightly lengthened if people have gone to the wrong half, and needing a second shop, bar and so on. Whereas if you can dedicate the space to a smaller group of passengers who are currently occupying a space that can be given over to standard passengers for minimal expense, then you get quite a lot for a limited investment.

Regarding taking out retail for customs, given the retail probably generates a lot more revenue for the station's owner than HM Customs, I don't see much space being given over. Certainly not the top-end wine bar on the platform level. You could of course ask HM Government to simply waive the checks (as the French do at Paris) but somehow I can't see that being very likely to get agreement either.

 

[GingerSte]

The passageway isn't that important in the scheme of things. In my experience of queuing for Eurostar, I've never seen too many people using the passageway as opposed to the much more obvious entrances at either end of the original building.
However passenger flow within the Eurostar terminal is rather important, as is the service provision as Eurostar, even in standard, is sold as a product above the bottom end. Building 2 separate halves of standard passengers seems slightly self-defeating as the check-in process will be delayed with people trying to get to the right end, the boarding process will be slightly lengthened if people have gone to the wrong half, and needing a second shop, bar and so on. Whereas if you can dedicate the space to a smaller group of passengers who are currently occupying a space that can be given over to standard passengers for minimal expense, then you get quite a lot for a limited investment.

Regarding taking out retail for customs, given the retail probably generates a lot more revenue for the station's owner than HM Customs, I don't see much space being given over. Certainly not the top-end wine bar on the platform level. You could of course ask HM Government to simply waive the checks (as the French do at Paris) but somehow I can't see that being very likely to get agreement either.

I'm definitely not suggesting taking out the top-end wine bar, or anything on the platform level. I am suggesting taking out retail on the east side of the concourse at the lower level. This would help create the space for the conversion described above. I would also do the same on the north side of the KX passage, to create more room in the existing departures lounge. Some of that room may be taken by another bar, or different retail, but either way it should be "airside".

Some of the lost revenue would be made up for by increased scarcity of retail space (supply down, demand same, prices up). Plus there's the increase in footfall in the station that would help drive up revenue.

Plus, I'd argue that the primary function of that building is as a railway station. The retail should serve the station, rather than the station serving the retail.

 

[zwk500]

I'm definitely not suggesting taking out the top-end wine bar, or anything on the platform level. I am suggesting taking out retail on the east side of the concourse at the lower level. This would help create the space for the conversion described above. I would also do the same on the north side of the KX passage, to create more room in the existing departures lounge. Some of that room may be taken by another bar, or different retail, but either way it should be "airside".

For reference here's a floorplan:

Retail isn't taking up that much space of either secure zone, proportionately.

Plus, I'd argue that the primary function of that building is as a railway station. The retail should serve the station, rather than the station serving the retail.

The retail serves the station by funding a significant portion of it.

 

[Trainbike46]

For reference here's a floorplan:

Retail isn't taking up that much space of either secure zone, proportionately.

The retail serves the station by funding a significant portion of it.

This map isn't entirely up to date, given that it doesn't include the part of the arrivals area that was taken over by eurostar departures last summer - it matches the proposal by the thread starter quite closely, with as difference that a smaller section was taken over between two escalators, and that the customs office wasn't moved.

For reference, the area between the lift and the eurostar ticket office, as well as between the two escalators is now a second departure lounge - there's no shops in this area, and it is only used at busy times. There's two security lanes leading to it via a narrow hallway from the ticket office. They appear to just pull people out of the regular queue and guide them to this area if passenger levels require it.

 

[Dr Hoo]

To add a slightly more general comment, the retail and catering provide a service to ALL travellers at St Pancras (and indeed the surrounding community to some extent). Whereas accommodation within the Eurostar secure area can obviously only serve a small proportion of the traffic base.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why can't they just allow some passengers to wait on the platform if they wish, as they do with almost every other network?

 

[Topological]

Why can't they just allow some passengers to wait on the platform if they wish, as they do with almost every other network?

My first thought was related to customs and passport control, but then some airports fully integrate arrivals and departures for smaller planes (I am pretty sure Amsterdam Schiphol does). As long as there is no possible way for someone from the UK to get to France without passing checks, or vice versa, then it should not be a problem.

It is also worth noting that the lack of waiting area is probably designed to promote spending in the retail units. Encouraging spending is something airports are very good at too.