Stagecoach East Scotland

[RomeoCharlie71]

The plan is to extended it to Dunfermline as part of "Cavforth 2" I think its highly unlikely now the service will see an increased in frequency, but maintain the current 30min service.

If only funding could come about so easily to improve the existing fleet and services, which passengers actually use...

 

[overthewater]

If only funding could come about so easily to improve the existing fleet and services, which passengers actually use...

I wonder if they could create a fleet of driverless Coaches, could do wonders for the X7, X24 and X59.

Agree, i can't see there being much point increasing it. Admittedly i've only used the service once however there was only one other passenger and the various other buses i saw weren't exactly busy.

I had wondered that myself regarding the 747. Perhaps if the trial proves successful a potential future phase would be converting over the 747. With that said i do think the project as a whole is a bit of a pointless exercise.

The AB1 definitely isn't pulling enough passengers for a frequency increase, most services are quite empty - that's both from my observations and those of the staff on board. It's a fairly novel way of travelling to and from Fife though and it's become my route of choice on hot days as the throughflow of air is much better on the 200AVs than the coaches thanks to the openable windows.

If driverless operation or any of the technologies currently used for AB1 were to be further expanded in the future, the 747 would likely be the ideal candidate. Short, fair amount of motorway running, and busy.

The real trouble is, there is nothing of great value at Edinburgh park, even extending it up to the Gyle could be more useful.

 

[Tayway]

The 99 seems to be their only profitable route these days... And now twice as frequent as anything else in Dundee or Fife I believe!

 

[Stan Drews]

The 99 seems to be their only profitable route these days... And now twice as frequent as anything else in Dundee or Fife I believe!

It’s been an absolute goldmine for much of the last 20 years. The loss of the 94 contract is presumably helping to provide the additional driver resource too.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The 99 seems to be their only profitable route these days... And now twice as frequent as anything else in Dundee or Fife I believe!

It's just a shame they don't offer a higher quality vehicle on the route. The E200MMCs while quite rapid absolutely screech along most of the route and they give an almighty thud going over the joins between the road sections on the Tay Bridge thanks to their tiny wheels and long wheelbase. The 99 would potentially seem an ideal candidate for Volvo BZLs with opportunity charging utilised at St Andrews and Dundee bus stations.

 

[overthewater]

It's just a shame they don't offer a higher quality vehicle on the route. The E200MMCs while quite rapid absolutely screech along most of the route and they give an almighty thud going over the joins between the road sections on the Tay Bridge thanks to their tiny wheels and long wheelbase. The 99 would potentially seem an ideal candidate for Volvo BZLs with opportunity charging utilised at St Andrews and Dundee bus stations.

Maybe that will happen when the Taybridge park and ride finally gets built.

The 99 seems to be their only profitable route these days... And now twice as frequent as anything else in Dundee or Fife I believe!

The Edinburgh express are still a goldmine, Come next month your see every single spare bus sent out to duplicate runs for the Edinburgh festival.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The Edinburgh express are still a goldmine, Come next month your see every single spare bus sent out to duplicate runs for the Edinburgh festival.

Right, what's the deal with the Edinburgh Express services?
At every peak time that I see them there are coaches displaying "COACH FULL" and actively turning people away from their services. This must be actively harming their business. If a division or franchisee in any other business was found to be turning customers away they'd get a talking to, and actions taken to ensure it doesn't happen again, but Stagecoach just keep putting on either coaches which are far too small or buses which are not suitable for express work. If someone chooses to give the coach a go and what turns up is a rattily city bus with no amenities, no air conditioning etc then they're not going to choose the bus next time, they're going to drive.
As quoted above, the Express services always seem busy, I've even seen them turning potential customers away in the off-peak because the bus is full, they must bring in a substantial amount of money, they should be operated with newer vehicles or at the very least vehicles which can cope with the number of people trying to use them.
I was going to make a comment on the average age of the vehicles but on average they are from 2014 so only 8 years old.

Data source https://bustimes.org/operators/stagecoach-east-scotland/vehicles
Table of data, typed manually except for final statistic.
I know the Elite i vehicles aren't used on Edinburgh services but I've included them in the calculation anyway.

Statistic	Year	Count	Reference reg plate	Reference Model
average = ((2010*2)+(2011*6)+ ... )/15 = 2014.76	2010	2		B9R Elite
	2011	6	SV11	B9R Elite
	2015	12	YY65	B11R Elite
	2016	2	YX66	B11R Elite
	2011	1	SP61	B11R Elite
	2012	8	SP62	B11R Elite
	2013	8	YX63	B11R Elite
	2012	1	SF62	B11R Elite i
	2014	8	YX64	B11R Elite i
	2016	1	YX66	B11R Elite i
	2014	8	YX64	B11R Elite
	2016	3	YX66	B11R Elite
	2017	5	YX67	B11R Elite
	2018	19	YX18	B8R Panther LE
	2019	1	YX19	B8R Panther LE

 

[Blindtraveler]

They might be mostly 2014 but they have been worked hard and are knackered. This set of services should really be receiving a continuous cascade of new vehicles every couple of years also as commuters in particular pay a not insignificant sum to travel on them. In terms of capacity we need to go back to the pre-pandemic timetable at least as far as Ferrtoll and Halbeith but I'm aware this requires drivers and a lot of companies haven't solved that conundrum yet.

 

[computerSaysNo]

they have been worked hard and are knackered

But from the perspective of Financing/Fleet Renewals/whoever is in charge of that, East Scotland ("ES") been bought/given all these coaches which are not too old, if ES have run them into the ground and neglected to take care of them, then that's on ES. Why should ES be "rewarded" with new buses just because they've failed to take care of the old ones?
To be clear I'm not saying I agree with any of the above, I'm just putting it out there as a possibility.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It's a perfectly valid point and I can see where you're coming from. I still maintain that passengers and indeed drivers deserve better

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

They might be mostly 2014 but they have been worked hard and are knackered. This set of services should really be receiving a continuous cascade of new vehicles every couple of years also as commuters in particular pay a not insignificant sum to travel on them. In terms of capacity we need to go back to the pre-pandemic timetable at least as far as Ferrtoll and Halbeith but I'm aware this requires drivers and a lot of companies haven't solved that conundrum yet.

Two points to make here.

It’s Stagecoach and simply put, their track record on maintenance is poor.

Also, the “Conundrum” with drivers, or lack thereof, is something most big groups won’t be able to solve. At one point they had the means to get one in the door as another left, but they simply don’t have the license holder footfall any longer and this certainly won’t ever be helped by the circumstances you work under within the big groups.

It's a perfectly valid point and I can see where you're coming from. I still maintain that passengers and indeed drivers deserve better

Indeed.

 

[roadierway77]

Timetables are now up for the forthcoming services changes: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-12/07/2023-10:14:02:441

Also interestingly, I just noticed this on the service updates page - have quoted the article below and here is a link: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-25/07/2023-16:46:45:055

Additional services between Halbeath Park & Ride and Glasgow from Saturday the 29th of July​

To make sure you get where you need to go, we will be running extra buses on the following journeys every Saturday from the 29th of July until Further Notice
X24 Halbeath Park & Ride to Glasgow (serving Dunfermline, Kincardine, Forth Valley Hospital, Cumbernauld and Glasgow)

0858
0958
1058
1158
1258
1358
​

X24 Glasgow to Halbeath Park & Ride (serving Glasgow, Cumbernauld, Forth Valley Hospital, Kincardine, Dunfermline and Halbeath Park & Ride)

1445
1545
1645
1745
1845
​

These journeys will run as normal X24 between Halbeath Park & Ride and Glasgow, picking up and dropping off at the same stops as the X24.

If Stagecoach have enough vehicles to operate duplicates, I don't see why they couldn't implement a timetable change. However while I hate to be cynical, I doubt they do actually have enough vehicles and this just seems to be a way of providing some additional capacity while also claiming no responsibility for if the duplicate services don't operate, as they're not officially timetabled services.

 

[Volvodart]

Someone, who I think works there, said on Twitter that the duplicates only operate on Saturdays, although this is not clear in the article.

 

[ajrm]

Someone, who I think works there, said on Twitter that the duplicates only operate on Saturdays, although this is not clear in the article.

'we will be running extra buses on the following journeys every Saturday'

How much clearer could it be?

 

[El Blanco]

Timetables are now up for the forthcoming services changes: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-12/07/2023-10:14:02:441

Also interestingly, I just noticed this on the service updates page - have quoted the article below and here is a link: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-25/07/2023-16:46:45:055

If Stagecoach have enough vehicles to operate duplicates, I don't see why they couldn't implement a timetable change. However while I hate to be cynical, I doubt they do actually have enough vehicles and this just seems to be a way of providing some additional capacity while also claiming no responsibility for if the duplicate services don't operate, as they're not officially timetabled services.

I suspect these are tied in with the start of the football season. These buses are often full from Dunfermline when the Old Firm are at home.

They may not run in their entirety if there is no match on the Saturday. Or if the game is a midday kick off then the afternoon ones won’t run.

Given the kick offs change at relatively short notice due to TV then running them as extras gives them the flexibility to cancel.

Be interesting if they appear this week as neither Celtic or Rangers are playing. Celtic play at 12:30 on 5th August so I wonder if the early evening extras from Glasgow run.

 

[Fifescottish]

Are there no plans to run the F59 this year during the Edinburgh festival?

Most buses heading into Edinburgh this afternoon were showing bus full and that was with deckers on the X55!

 

[BobbyBKinross]

Are there no plans to run the F59 this year during the Edinburgh festival?

Most buses heading into Edinburgh this afternoon were showing bus full and that was with deckers on the X55!

Probably a driver/overtime issue.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A bit late for this year but there's a rather large gold mine there for other bus and coach operators if they have the driver and vehicle ability next year, stagecoach clearly not covering themselves in glory and I somehow doubt the railway is coping as it hasn't coped for at least the last decade

 

[computerSaysNo]

A bit late for this year but there's a rather large gold mine there for other bus and coach operators if they have the driver and vehicle ability next year, stagecoach clearly not covering themselves in glory and I somehow doubt the railway is coping as it hasn't coped for at least the last decade

I had considered suggesting Lothian run a shuttle from one of the Park & Ride sites in Fife into Edinburgh using their 100-seat XLBs, but firstly as you say there is likely still a driver availability issue, and secondly there may be the fear that if Lothian start operating in Stagecoach territory, Stagecoach may retaliate by attempting services in Edinburgh, which Lothian will obviously want to avoid.
I had also considered suggesting Stagecoach buy their own 100-seat Volvo/E400XLB vehicles. You can probably spec them very similar to a coach i.e. sealed windows and air conditioning, comfortable seats, but by that point I'm not sure they'd be any cheaper than just buying coaches anyway, and I'm also not sure how their 8-litre engines would cope on the higher-speed runs that Stagecoach Fife have.

 

[overthewater]

There was extra duplicate decker's in operation today, I dare say that will be the case for the next month. It all very well good saying Lothian could try X and Y, but I doubt they have the spare drivers, and will they want to give up the X99? I agree the F59 would have been a better idea.

 

[BobbyBKinross]

I had considered suggesting Lothian run a shuttle from one of the Park & Ride sites in Fife into Edinburgh using their 100-seat XLBs, but firstly as you say there is likely still a driver availability issue, and secondly there may be the fear that if Lothian start operating in Stagecoach territory, Stagecoach may retaliate by attempting services in Edinburgh, which Lothian will obviously want to avoid.
I had also considered suggesting Stagecoach buy their own 100-seat Volvo/E400XLB vehicles. You can probably spec them very similar to a coach i.e. sealed windows and air conditioning, comfortable seats, but by that point I'm not sure they'd be any cheaper than just buying coaches anyway, and I'm also not sure how their 8-litre engines would cope on the higher-speed runs that Stagecoach Fife have.

Good luck trying to get Stagecoach shelling out for new buses.

The lack of investment in buses in the last 2/3 years has been horrific and may I add that if ScotGov didn't partially fund new electric buses for City Networks then the buses that served such networks before the EV's were introduced would still have been in service for many years yet and likely until they were physically broken.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It's rather amazing how little Stagecoach have invested recently, perhaps they feel after ten or so years of solid heavy investment that they need to breather?

A standard bus spec high back seat xlb would work well for something like the x55 most of the time although would need to divert via the new bridge in the event of it being a bit blustery

 

[318266]

I'm also not sure how their 8-litre engines would cope on the higher-speed runs that Stagecoach Fife have.

The Panther LE is on B8RLE chassis, with IIRC the same engine as the B8L found on the XLB.

 

[J Burns]

Good luck trying to get Stagecoach shelling out for new buses.

The lack of investment in buses in the last 2/3 years has been horrific and may I add that if ScotGov didn't partially fund new electric buses for City Networks then the buses that served such networks before the EV's were introduced would still have been in service for many years yet and likely until they were physically broken.

Probably investment was curtailed on the run up to and during takeover talks to improve the financial status and to await direction and funds from the new owners.

 

[route101]

Noticed a few bus full services coming out if Edinburgh and a queue at Edinburgh Bus Station yesterday. I have noticed more E400MMCs on express services. Even Citylink has stopped ordering new coaches and getting older ones in.

 

[83G/84D]

Is Stagecoach/ Rennies still using Cowdenbeath depot? I was last there 2 years ago and it was occupied by a good number of older buses some in Rennies colours.

 

[roadierway77]

Is Stagecoach/ Rennies still using Cowdenbeath depot? I was last there 2 years ago and it was occupied by a good number of older buses some in Rennies colours.

It's still in use, yes, primarily as a base for Rennies and for the operation of a number of school routes. Council tenders 14, 84 and 202 and the commercial AZ1 are also run out of Cowdenbeath.

 

[83G/84D]

It's still in use, yes, primarily as a base for Rennies and for the operation of a number of school routes. Council tenders 14, 84 and 202 and the commercial AZ1 are also run out of Cowdenbeath.

Ah right, interesting. Thanks.

 

[overthewater]

84 moves depots on Monday but 88 is going to Cowdenbeath.

 

[Fifescottish]

84 moves depots on Monday but 88 is going to Cowdenbeath.

Assume Cowdenbeath is getting something smaller to operate it?