Stick-on Tactile paving

[yorksrob]

Has anyone noticed that the latest off-set blister seems to be glued onto the platform.

Previously concrete slabs used to be used, with a more permanent feel to my mind.

 

[swt_passenger]

There have still been recent openings of new platforms where the usual concrete slabs have been used, eg Brent Cross West, I don’t think adhesive tiles are suddenly a ”one size fits all“ change.

There have also been sites where metal studs have been fitted into drilled holes. I think they’re still fairly unusual.

 

[yorksrob]

There have still been recent openings of new platforms where the usual concrete slabs have been used, eg Brent Cross West, I don’t think adhesive tiles are suddenly a ”one size fits all“ change.

There have also been sites where metal studs have been fitted into drilled holes. I think they’re still fairly unusual.

Yes, I've seen these at York. I wonder what the advantage as it seems more work

 

[DelW]

The stick-on plastic ones don't last well. They were added to my local station four or five years ago, and quite a few are already breaking up and/or coming loose.

 

[yorksrob]

The stick-on plastic ones don't last well. They were added to my local station four or five years ago, and quite a few are already breaking up and/or coming loose.

That's interesting. Some of the slab ones look to have lasted some time.

 

[ZL exile]

Not on the railway, but here in Doncaster the tactile sections on new cycle way and footpaths are a mixture on metal strips attached to the pavement or a metal grid with the studs on attached to the surface them]n they have a textured substance applied by hand roller and allowed to dry, so no longer using purpose made paving slabs.

 

[Ken H]

I wondered if tactile strip could be made of the same stuff they make road markings with in the UK. They seem to be able to cast rumble strips in that - not much different to the stuff they have on stations on platform edges.

 

[skyhigh]

The stick-on plastic ones don't last well. They were added to my local station four or five years ago, and quite a few are already breaking up and/or coming loose.

The current ones being installed round here are stick-on but have a 10 year warranty for both adhesion and wear.

 

[100andthirty]

They've recently added stick on tactiles at Milton Keynes Central. They've not updated the PA announcements which still warn people that there are no tactiles. Here is probably makes sense to use stick on tactiles as the nosing stones on at least platform 4 are supported by scaffolding which I hope is only temporary.

 

[59CosG95]

Yes, I've seen these at York. I wonder what the advantage as it seems more work

Probably easier in terms of repair; if one gets worn down it can be replaced more quickly than a worn-down slab.

 

[Elecman]

I wondered if tactile strip could be made of the same stuff they make road markings with in the UK. They seem to be able to cast rumble strips in that - not much different to the stuff they have on stations on platform edges.

Yes they could. W made from thermoplastic( which is what the rumble strips are made of and could be applied by a hot mastic type application. As could the yellow lines and white platform edging pre-made in strip form for hot application by heat gun on-site

 

[yorksrob]

Probably easier in terms of repair; if one gets worn down it can be replaced more quickly than a worn-down slab.

Indeed, although I suppose it depends how quickly the slabs get worn down !

 

[jamiearmley]

The glued on blister plates seem to be proud of most surfaces, creating a trip hazard. They seem to be slippery when wet. They seem to create an uneven surface during all weather conditions. They really don't seem all that safe, presenting an obstacle, rather than an aid, to both those with reduced vision and those without.

The recessed tiles, and the individually drilled type, don't present these problems.

All rather odd, don't understand how they got approved.

 

[dosxuk]

The stick on and drilled types can be readily fitted to existing platform surfaces. Fitting the "proper" slabs involves basically reconstructing the relevant areas, which takes time and money.

The stick on ones are cheaper and quicker to fit than the drilled studs, but they can only be fitted to surfaces that are uniform, otherwise they tend to start peeling up fairly quickly. The drilled studs, on the other hand, don't care about the surface, but do need a suitable base that will accept the stud securely (wood, metal or very thin surfaces likely to be unsuitable).

With the drive to get the markings fitted across the entire network, quicker than it will take to rebuild every platform, you're going to see these "more temporary" solutions.

 

[Starmill]

At Headbolt Lane they've made a terrible mess of the way finding guide strips and damaged the platform surface in cutting part of the stick on stip away again. It's very shoddily done. However the actual platform edge tactiles are the more substantial concrete moulded slabs.

Some other new stations have proper tiles too.

 

[Revilo]

The stick-on plastic ones don't last well. They were added to my local station four or five years ago, and quite a few are already breaking up and/or coming loose.

Is this not in itself a trip safety hazard? So that something designed to improve the safety for the visually impaired actually risks everyone (including the visually impaired). Plus the cost of its installation might have been more usefully spent on something better.

 

[DelW]

Is this not in itself a trip safety hazard? So that something designed to improve the safety for the visually impaired actually risks everyone (including the visually impaired). Plus the cost of its installation might have been more usefully spent on something better.

They're quite thin, so the edge that's left is probably only 5mm high or so. Any loose bits do seem to get removed by platform staff.

 

[Horizon22]

There was a lot of panic about the lack of tactile paving around the country - I think this was partly an outcome of an RAIB investigation into a death at Eden Park station of a visually impaired male.

See this quote in the recommendations:

The report makes six recommendations. The first and second are addressed to DfT and Network Rail, firstly to seek improvements in the processes that govern when tactile surfaces at the edge of station platforms should be installed, and secondly to develop a plan for installing tactile surfaces at higher priority locations in a timely manner across the railway network.

I imagine this is a reaction to getting it installed quickly but without the same cost.

 

[yorksrob]

There was a lot of panic about the lack of tactile paving around the country - I think this was partly an outcome of an RAIB investigation into a death at Eden Park station of a visually impaired male.

I imagine this is a reaction to getting it installed quickly but without the same cost.

That's a good point. I've found it quite surprising how many stations don't have it.

Better to get it in as soon as possible.

 

[The Snap]

The ORR issued an improvement notice to Network Rail over lack of tactile paving following incidents like the one at Eden Park.

Thats why there has been a fairly relentless campaign of installing tactiles across the country in the last 12 months.

As has been suggested already in this thread, typically there are three solutions:
1. Traditional concrete slab tactiles which are more permanent and robust, but not suitable to all platforms for various reasons (platform surface type, platform levels, platform widths etc).

2. Drilled stud type tactiles as has recently been installed at Piccadilly and York. These are not cheap so generally not preferred, and only applied in specific circumstances

3. Stick on tactiles. These are the cheaper and easier option, but less robust and with the shortest design life. They are stuck down with a 2 part adhesive mixed on site. Typically the adhesive will fail if the surface isn’t prepped properly, or if applied to fresh tarmac (tarmac needs to be 30 days old minimum for the adhesive to work, otherwise the oils in the tar react with the adhesive and it fails)

Don’t forget, tactiles can only be installed under possession of the line so time is often a factor too especially in the major stations where possessions times are short.

(I work for a principle contractor who are installing tactiles for Network Rail across NW&C so am fairly up to speed on this particular subject)

 

[59CosG95]

The ORR issued an improvement notice to Network Rail over lack of tactile paving following incidents like the one at Eden Park.

Thats why there has been a fairly relentless campaign of installing tactiles across the country in the last 12 months.

As has been suggested already in this thread, typically there are three solutions:
1. Traditional concrete slab tactiles which are more permanent and robust, but not suitable to all platforms for various reasons (platform surface type, platform levels, platform widths etc).

2. Drilled stud type tactiles as has recently been installed at Piccadilly and York. These are not cheap so generally not preferred, and only applied in specific circumstances

3. Stick on tactiles. These are the cheaper and easier option, but less robust and with the shortest design life. They are stuck down with a 2 part adhesive mixed on site. Typically the adhesive will fail if the surface isn’t prepped properly, or if applied to fresh tarmac (tarmac needs to be 30 days old minimum for the adhesive to work, otherwise the oils in the tar react with the adhesive and it fails)

Don’t forget, tactiles can only be installed under possession of the line so time is often a factor too especially in the major stations where possessions times are short.

(I work for a principle contractor who are installing tactiles for Network Rail across NW&C so am fairly up to speed on this particular subject)

Some platform copers can be ordered which have a tactile unit bonded to them now - like yourself, I work for a principal contractor and our subbie ordered them for a new-build platform in the North East.

(Guesses as to which PC I'm with on a postcard please!)

 

[H&I]

At the new entrance at University station, there are two different types of tactile paving.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The stick-on plastic ones don't last well. They were added to my local station four or five years ago, and quite a few are already breaking up and/or coming loose.

We've got them in many stations now, often are a trip hazard in themselves given they are not recessed. I don't expect they will last very long, and they certainly look shoddy

 

[edwin_m]

At the new entrance at University station, there are two different types of tactile paving.

There are various types of tactile to indicate different situations - platform edges (different for trams), wayfinding, steps, road crossings. The latest seems to be to fit wayfinding tactiles along a new or re-built platform. These are the ones with corduroy strips indicating the direction to go, but I was in a presentation from Network Rail showing how these can really mess up the platform layout if done wrong.

 

[yorksrob]

The ORR issued an improvement notice to Network Rail over lack of tactile paving following incidents like the one at Eden Park.

Thats why there has been a fairly relentless campaign of installing tactiles across the country in the last 12 months.

As has been suggested already in this thread, typically there are three solutions:
1. Traditional concrete slab tactiles which are more permanent and robust, but not suitable to all platforms for various reasons (platform surface type, platform levels, platform widths etc).

2. Drilled stud type tactiles as has recently been installed at Piccadilly and York. These are not cheap so generally not preferred, and only applied in specific circumstances

3. Stick on tactiles. These are the cheaper and easier option, but less robust and with the shortest design life. They are stuck down with a 2 part adhesive mixed on site. Typically the adhesive will fail if the surface isn’t prepped properly, or if applied to fresh tarmac (tarmac needs to be 30 days old minimum for the adhesive to work, otherwise the oils in the tar react with the adhesive and it fails)

Don’t forget, tactiles can only be installed under possession of the line so time is often a factor too especially in the major stations where possessions times are short.

(I work for a principle contractor who are installing tactiles for Network Rail across NW&C so am fairly up to speed on this particular subject)

Thanks, that's very interesting background.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are various types of tactile to indicate different situations - platform edges (different for trams), wayfinding, steps, road crossings. The latest seems to be to fit wayfinding tactiles along a new or re-built platform. These are the ones with corduroy strips indicating the direction to go, but I was in a presentation from Network Rail showing how these can really mess up the platform layout if done wrong.

Marsh Barton and Reading Green Park are examples of the latest thinking on separate tactiles for wayfinding, there are mentions/photos in the two threads.

Marsh Barton:

Marsh Barton Railway Station Exeter - Construction

18th May is the opening date being banded about at work. Any idea if/when this is likely to be confirmed?

www.railforums.co.uk

Green Park:

Reading Green Park Station

It is just a push-bar release for the gate giving access to the emergency staircase leading to the road bridge? Anything at the top of the stairs to prevent someone accidentally thinking that was an entrance to the station, similar to Reston where the first staircase you reach if arriving by...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[DelW]

The stick-on plastic ones don't last well. They were added to my local station four or five years ago, and quite a few are already breaking up and/or coming loose.

Waiting for a train today, I noticed an example of the kind of problem that has occurred with the plastic variety (1st photo). There does seem to have been a recent replacement effort though, judging from the number of evidently newer panels along the platform (2nd photo). So at least some attention is being paid to them, though not to the extent of putting in proper concrete ones instead.

 

[TonyColeman2]

If I remember correctly I’m sure it’s at Hampton in Arden they have used the sticky tactile paving obviously they have had a group of people sticking them down and started at both ends of the platform then when they meet in the middle completely out of alignment with each other !!!!