Surly greeting at Liverpool Southparkway - TOD collection

[Grumpy Git]

Picked-up my pre-booked ticket from LPY early on Saturday morning. I'd normally do this at Cressington, but I didn't have time before the 06:24 to Hunts Cross arrived.

Two people on the tills in the shop/ticket office. I walk-up to the nearest and it goes something like this:

Me: 'ticket for collection please'
Them: 'the ticket machine is working'
Me: 'I prefer to get it in here please' (there's no one else in the shop apart from the other staff member)

I'm now opening the email on my 'phone, and before I could read out the reference code;

Them: 'just show me the number' (no 'please', 'thank you' or anything)

I now hold the screen towards them whilst I also start quoting the number to be me with:

Them: 'I CAN read it'

Some people need jobs in a non-customer facing role, because a nice attitude and a smile doesn't half make the day go smoother, IMHO.

Made me chuckle, though.

 

[yorkie]

Using a ticket office, rather than a machine, results in a premium charge being made for the retailer (unless the charging has changed recently); the ticket office staff probably should be encouraging the use of the machine.

Staff should be polite, but unfortunately there are numerous examples where this is not the case. It's an endemic problem in the rail industry, unfortunately, and I can't see that ever changing.

But I rarely have to interact with grumpy ticket office staff these days, as nearly all my journeys are e-ticket enabled, and - generally speaking - computers don't refuse to issue valid tickets.

Unless the machine is broken, I wouldn't attempt to use the ticket office, as it just causes additional costs, and some staff at ticket offices can be grumpy, so I find it's best not to let them have the pleasure of being grumpy at me unless I can avoid it.

Presumably the tickets aren't available in e-ticket format yet?

 

[Grumpy Git]

It was a London Travelcard Zones 1-6 OP return, so paper ticket only.

If it creates grief for whoever (extra costs), why do they advertise that collection from any ticket office is possible?

I'm very supportive of retaining ticket offices, but some staff need a reality check if they act like this all the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair I'm not surprised at bad service from a Merseyrail booking office. Surprised you didn't get "Yer'll af'ter go ter Laime Stsreets fer dat". They really do like promoting the idea of their own closure at times.

That said, the advertisement that the booking offices do it is really aimed at their stations that don't have connected TVMs, ie most of them. South Parkway has a Northern TVM for that purpose. Of course no excuse for rudeness.

 

[lrailadventure]

Is the TVM at South Parkway finally fully working then? Every time I have walked past it in the last 3 years (admittedly I haven't been past it in the last 3 months), it's had some sort of notice on it, either completely out of order, or to only use contactless when collecting ticket...

Whenever I've had to collect tickets at South Parkway the staff in the ticket office have been helpful and happy to do it, sounds like you haven't been as lucky

 

[Aviator88]

Reminds me of the old idiom, "Turkeys voting for Christmas."

 

[Towers]

To be fair I'm not surprised at bad service from a Merseyrail booking office. Surprised you didn't get "Yer'll af'ter go ter Laime Stsreets fer dat". They really do like promoting the idea of their own closure at times.

Alrite ca’m down ca’m down…

 

[Travelmonkey]

with ticket office staff you seem to get one extreme or the other although it's a question of how do you deal with people similar to checkout staff in supermarkets pusing for self-checkout or bank tellars pointing to a ATM some folks lack the preffered skills but it is by no means a railway phenomenon,

 

[yorkie]

with ticket office staff you seem to get one extreme or the other although it's a question of how do you deal with people similar to checkout staff in supermarkets pusing for self-checkout or bank tellars pointing to a ATM some folks lack the preffered skills but it is by no means a railway phenomenon,

I've never experienced anything like the behaviour described in this thread by any employee at any industry, other than the rail industry, where I most certainly have experienced similar, or worse, on multiple occasions.

Yes, poor customer service exists elsewhere, but it's on a much smaller scale than what we see in the rail industry.

The only other sector that has come anywhere close in my opinion would be the bus industry, but even that has largely got its act together in recent years!

The rail industry has got a big problem and is doing very little about it; the only plus points are that these days most passengers don't need to visit a ticket office, so that greatly reduces conflicts there. And on trains, I find that on an electronic world, claims of valid fares being invalid are also reduced.

But the fundamental problem remains that there are insufficient safeguards in place, to avoid such poor experiences happening. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Travelmonkey]

oh some banks deffinately make rail staff look like angels, even to the point they no longer have cash counters, also the "have you used the app" "can you use the app" I can just about but prehaps I wanted a humans input/assistance, I could go on about the whole cashless pushing in shops now too at least the ticket office even if it's a gump will take my money, we as a society especially post lockdowns have regressed and push too deeply for automation.

 

[yorkie]

oh some banks deffinately make rail staff look like angels, even to the point they no longer have cash counters, also the "have you used the app" "can you use the app" I can just about but prehaps I wanted a humans input/assistance, I could go on about the whole cashless pushing in shops now too at least the ticket office even if it's a gump will take my money, we as a society especially post lockdowns have regressed and push too deeply for automation.

There is nothing wrong in offering to show people how to use apps/machines; if done in the right way, that's good customer service.

A deeper conversation about the pros and cons of using apps / machines in society would be a matter for General Discussion.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Be sure to report rude or discourteous customer service by filing a complaint. I always make sure to.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Using a ticket office, rather than a machine, results in a premium charge being made for the retailer (unless the charging has changed recently); the ticket office staff probably should be encouraging the use of the machine.

That's interesting - and also very counter-intuitive: As an ordinary passenger, you wouldn't expect that picking up an already-paid-for-ticket from a machine vs. a ticket office would make any difference to who the money from your ticket goes to. Can you clarify the nature of the premium charge you're referring to, and who is charging whom? I'm not clear who you mean by 'the retailer' (The website you bought the ticket from? The ticket office?) or why we would even care if the retailer is just a TOC anyway? (I can see why we might care if the retailer was a friendly company like trainsplit).

 

[357]

Using a ticket office, rather than a machine, results in a premium charge being made for the retailer (unless the charging has changed recently); the ticket office staff probably should be encouraging the use of the machine.

I think it's a bit much to expect a regular passenger to know that though.

If the TOC doesn't want to process collections at ticket offices then they shouldn't offer it.

In a similar way that some shops and websites don't take American Express, they don't want to pay the commission and as a result don't offer the payment type! I've never been in a shop where I've got my Amex out and been asked to use another card to avoid commission, despite the shop accepting the payment type.

 

[yorkie]

That's interesting - and also very counter-intuitive: As an ordinary passenger, you wouldn't expect that picking up an already-paid-for-ticket from a machine vs. a ticket office would make any difference to who the money from your ticket goes to.

It doesn't make any difference to that; it is literally an extra charge.

Retailers make losses on low value tickets (unless they charge a booking fee).

Can you clarify the nature of the premium charge you're referring to, and who is charging whom?

Train companies charge retailers fees for the collection of paper tickets. These fees are much higher if the ticket is collected from a ticket office than a machine.

I'm not clear who you mean by 'the retailer' (The website you bought the ticket from? The ticket office?) or why we would even care if the retailer is just a TOC anyway? (I can see why we might care if the retailer was a friendly company like trainsplit).

The retailer is the company who retails the ticket.

In the case of the forum's website, that's Raileasy (Trainsplit is the creation of a forum member, which was sold to Raileasy).

TOCs do charge each other, and yes for many TOCs it's deemed not to matter.

Some TOCs, e.g. XC, charge collection fees because they see it as a cost that they never get back, however.

Back in 2011 a forum member posted the fees applicable at the time:

Looking on the ATOC Trael Agents site, the fees are there in black and white...Current RSP fees are 45p per transaction for ToD through a TVM and 90p at a Ticket Office, dropping to 40p through a TVM from 1st April 2012.

Travel Agents are allowed to make their own charges in addition to the ATOC fees providing they make such charges clear at the time of booking...

Barry

Of course, now it's largely an irrelevance as the vast majority of tickets are issued as e-tickets; places like Merseyside are lagging behind but here in Yorkshire, ticket offices are tiny and mostly devoid of customers, and you know when the ticket inspection is taking place on the train as you hear the beeping from the scans, with something like 95 per cent of passengers holding barcode tickets on many trains im on these days.

I think it's a bit much to expect a regular passenger to know that though.

I don't think anyone is?

If the TOC doesn't want to process collections at ticket offices then they shouldn't offer it.

They are obligated to do so, where the machines aren't working.[/INDENT]

 

[Bluejays]

oh some banks deffinately make rail staff look like angels, even to the point they no longer have cash counters, also the "have you used the app" "can you use the app" I can just about but prehaps I wanted a humans input/assistance, I could go on about the whole cashless pushing in shops now too at least the ticket office even if it's a gump will take my money, we as a society especially post lockdowns have regressed and push too deeply for automation.

I think this kind of scenario is very different to the op. The op was about a surly member of staff. This example is more about what the companies are mandating. If the bank doesn't have a cash counter, that's the fault of the bank, it's nothing to do with the poor member of staff there who's probably getting grief all day.

If anyone wants to see real endemic grumpiness(to the point of hostility) I'd recommend a visit to a London based bookmakers. Had some absolutely fantastic 'welcomes'. Although judging by the way a lot of the punters behave towards the staff I'm not particularly surprised

Be sure to report rude or discourteous customer service by filing a complaint. I always make sure to.

Personally I'd rather not. Unless someone is downright hostile to me I tend to take the view that maybe they're just having a bad day. If they repeat that behaviour on subsequent visits I'd probably change my mind and be more minded to complain.

 

[robert thomas]

I've never experienced anything like the behaviour described in this thread by any employee at any industry, other than the rail industry, where I most certainly have experienced similar, or worse, on multiple occasions.

Yes, poor customer service exists elsewhere, but it's on a much smaller scale than what we see in the rail industry.

The only other sector that has come anywhere close in my opinion would be the bus industry, but even that has largely got its act together in recent years!

The rail industry has got a big problem and is doing very little about it; the only plus points are that these days most passengers don't need to visit a ticket office, so that greatly reduces conflicts there. And on trains, I find that on an electronic world, claims of valid fares being invalid are also reduced.

But the fundamental problem remains that there are insufficient safeguards in place, to avoid such poor experiences happening. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

Try buying a magazine or paperat W H Smith in Cardiff and paying at the counter. You can't do that here you must use the machine. Result bought elsewhere

I've never experienced anything like the behaviour described in this thread by any employee at any industry, other than the rail industry, where I most certainly have experienced similar, or worse, on multiple occasions.

Yes, poor customer service exists elsewhere, but it's on a much smaller scale than what we see in the rail industry.

The only other sector that has come anywhere close in my opinion would be the bus industry, but even that has largely got its act together in recent years!

The rail industry has got a big problem and is doing very little about it; the only plus points are that these days most passengers don't need to visit a ticket office, so that greatly reduces conflicts there. And on trains, I find that on an electronic world, claims of valid fares being invalid are also reduced.

But the fundamental problem remains that there are insufficient safeguards in place, to avoid such poor experiences happening. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Kilopylae]

The only other sector that has come anywhere close in my opinion would be the bus industry, but even that has largely got its act together in recent years!

Not in Exeter/Devon, but bad bus customer service is a topic for another thread.

 

[Aviator88]

It does strike me as strange that the railway still has this problem with disinterested/rude front line staff. From my brushes with railway recruitment, TOCs really do seem to put the effort in when it comes to hiring quality candidates, even for perceived entry level jobs. Applications always involve a few stages of selection in a formal environment. There's group exercises, numerical/verbal reasoning, personality questionnaires, cashing up tests, an interview and so on. Some of this may be delivered by the OPC, and some may be in-house.

You don't have to go through anything close to that to work in a customer facing retail role anywhere else, save for the airlines and perhaps a few other select industries, so what's going wrong?

Has too much reliance been placed on box-ticking/ability to pass tests? Is there lacking in the ability to judge the good old fashioned interview these days?

Or is it as simple as good people being ground down by having to deal with a plethora of customers who are probably stressed and pushed for time, by the very nature of the transport medium?

Genuinely interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Try buying a magazine or paperat W H Smith in Cardiff and paying at the counter. You can't do that here you must use the machine. Result bought elsewhere

As I have a subscription for my daily paper and use a voucher, this results in the machine requiring manual staff input anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Try buying a magazine or paperat W H Smith in Cardiff and paying at the counter. You can't do that here you must use the machine. Result bought elsewhere

The mind still boggles as to how WH Smuggs Reading Room and Voucher Shop makes money. A sad shadow of its former self.

 

[Craig1122]

It does strike me as strange that the railway still has this problem with disinterested/rude front line staff. From my brushes with railway recruitment, TOCs really do seem to put the effort in when it comes to hiring quality candidates, even for perceived entry level jobs. Applications always involve a few stages of selection in a formal environment. There's group exercises, numerical/verbal reasoning, personality questionnaires, cashing up tests, an interview and so on. Some of this may be delivered by the OPC, and some may be in-house.

You don't have to go through anything close to that to work in a customer facing retail role anywhere else, save for the airlines and perhaps a few other select industries, so what's going wrong?

Has too much reliance been placed on box-ticking/ability to pass tests? Is there lacking in the ability to judge the good old fashioned interview these days?

Or is it as simple as good people being ground down by having to deal with a plethora of customers who are probably stressed and pushed for time, by the very nature of the transport medium?

Genuinely interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

A few different factors at play IMO:

There's a lack of ongoing management once people have passed that initial assessment. It's a slightly different issue at my local booking office where the regular member of staff isn't technically competent doing the job and tends to be anywhere except the ticket window when a train is due. That's been going on for years with no management intervention.

Good/bad behaviours tend to be infectious. So even if you recruit someone good they can be ground down by the team around them. That can equally apply the other way where you have a good team but it seems easier to go downwards.

A lot of railway jobs are lone working with no direct supervision. Some people will go the extra mile to do the job well. Others will bumble along doing as little as possible. Combine that with the lack of ongoing coaching mentioned above.

It can be a hostile environment and some (certainly not most) passengers can be very unpleasant. That takes a particular skill/mindset to deal with on a regular basis. A lot of complaints will be out of your control to deal with as a member of staff (My train is late every day/this canopy has been leaking water for the last year). That may be compounded by company policies which make problems harder to solve or seem actively anti customer. Some people's reaction to these problems that they can't control is to be aggressive towards the person complaining.

I'd like to think I'm fairly good with customers but I'm glad it's no longer a regular part of my job because honestly it can grind you down on the bad days.

 

[reach123y]

with ticket office staff you seem to get one extreme or the other although it's a question of how do you deal with people similar to checkout staff in supermarkets pusing for self-checkout or bank tellars pointing to a ATM some folks lack the preffered skills but it is by no means a railway phenomenon,

Slightly off-topic but my local bank did that. It's now set to close in the New Year!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slightly off-topic but my local bank did that. It's now set to close in the New Year!

People are choosing online banking in droves, which means branches become uneconomic. This is happening all over the industry, and a bank whose business model was branch banking (Metro Bank) has hardly done well out of it.

This is unfortunate for technophobes, but technophobes are quite literally dying off (as the vast majority of them are elderly) and so the branch banking market is getting smaller still.

See also ticket sales (per the thread) - I was at Leeds the weekend before last, and I saw one person use the booking office and nobody use the TVMs in the time I was there. Where permitted (Merseyside based yellow-painted Luddites and TfL aside) people are choosing online methods of purchase in droves.

 

[mrd269697]

Surprised at this. I work on the same network as this member of staff and I always serve with a smile and try my best to be as helpful as possible. I don’t see the point in being rude to the public unless we are getting a barage of abuse. Even then you have to try and be professional. Not good.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Surprised at this. I work on the same network as this member of staff and I always serve with a smile and try my best to be as helpful as possible. I don’t see the point in being rude to the public unless we are getting a barage of abuse. Even then you have to try and be professional. Not good.

This was a very isolated instance. The staff in my local booking office at Cressington are a proper cheery bunch.

I found the episode amusing, but I can't imagine it would have been much fun if it had been an elderly relative instead of me! Maybe they would have been marginally more engaging?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It doesn't make any difference to that; it is literally an extra charge.

OK so if I've understood you right, plus adding in a bit of guesswork. Say I buy a ticket that costs £20 from Raileasy (or any other retailer). Presumably most of that £20 gets passed to the appropriate TOC(s), while the retailer keeps some small % that's been agreed with the TOC as commission (and if it's TheTrainLine, they'll separately also charge me a booking fee that they keep directly), right?

And from what you're saying, if I buy the ticket as an eTicket, that's the end of the story. But if I ask to collect it at a station, then whichever TOC runs the facilities at that station will separately charge the retailer either 40p if it's a machine or 90p if it's a ticket office (at least, they did in 2012) for providing the ticket. And if the commission that the retailer got was less than 40p/90p then they'll make a loss.

Have I understood correctly?

 

[Horizon22]

A few different factors at play IMO:

There's a lack of ongoing management once people have passed that initial assessment. It's a slightly different issue at my local booking office where the regular member of staff isn't technically competent doing the job and tends to be anywhere except the ticket window when a train is due. That's been going on for years with no management intervention.

Good/bad behaviours tend to be infectious. So even if you recruit someone good they can be ground down by the team around them. That can equally apply the other way where you have a good team but it seems easier to go downwards.

A lot of railway jobs are lone working with no direct supervision. Some people will go the extra mile to do the job well. Others will bumble along doing as little as possible. Combine that with the lack of ongoing coaching mentioned above.

It can be a hostile environment and some (certainly not most) passengers can be very unpleasant. That takes a particular skill/mindset to deal with on a regular basis. A lot of complaints will be out of your control to deal with as a member of staff (My train is late every day/this canopy has been leaking water for the last year). That may be compounded by company policies which make problems harder to solve or seem actively anti customer. Some people's reaction to these problems that they can't control is to be aggressive towards the person complaining.

I'd like to think I'm fairly good with customers but I'm glad it's no longer a regular part of my job because honestly it can grind you down on the bad days.

Another factor - the good staff are promoted or leave the industry.

 

[507021]

Where permitted (Merseyside based yellow-painted Luddites and TfL aside) people are choosing online methods of purchase in droves.

Us Luddites need our paper tickets because the ticket barriers at Chester still don't like our MetroCards.

 

[peterblue]

The mind still boggles as to how WH Smuggs Reading Room and Voucher Shop makes money. A sad shadow of its former self.

Airports and railway stations, presumably.