SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Wokingham]

Shame nobody has a picture of the inside yet, will have taken more than a vacuum, the rust just from what I imagine is the procoat and people's sick in the side heater vents onboard.

 

[BenSpiers5852]

458528 has just worked 5B39 to Bournemouth TCD. It will be the next unit to go to Widnes

 

[theironroad]

Why do they have to go all the way from Wimbledon or London area depots to Bournemouth before going north again?

 

[444045]

Why do they have to go all the way from Wimbledon or London area depots to Bournemouth before going north again?

The reason for the units going to Bournemouth Depot is so they can strip out the seats & other components from the old
460 coach before going onto Widnes, where the coach will be removed.

 

[theironroad]

The reason for the units going to Bournemouth Depot is so they can strip out the seats & other components from the old
460 coach before going onto Widnes, where the coach will be removed.

Thanks. Makes sense if they are going to keep those components as spares. Thought the seats were all going to be changed, or are they keeping the seat type (though don't remember if they have armrests) and just reconfiguring to 2+2?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks. Makes sense if they are going to keep those components as spares. Thought the seats were all going to be changed, or are they keeping the seat type (though don't remember if they have armrests) and just reconfiguring to 2+2?

They are being changed but that doesn’t stop them from being useful to have anyway. In the short term, they may be beneficial for existing 458/5 or even 334 units.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thanks. Makes sense if they are going to keep those components as spares. Thought the seats were all going to be changed, or are they keeping the seat type (though don't remember if they have armrests) and just reconfiguring to 2+2?

The new seats are Fisa LEAN.

and people's sick in the side heater vents onboard.

Just as well the heating doesn't work well on the 458s...

 

[Notchapple]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, I believe only 28/36 of the 458 units with SWR being converted to 4 car, what is happening with the other 8?

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, I believe only 28/36 of the 458 units with SWR being converted to 4 car, what is happening with the other 8?

Scrap was the consensus in all the earlier discussions in this thread. It’s been known for a couple of years that only 28 units are intended, all ex 458, and expected that all their ex 460 5th cars will be scrapped as units go to Widnes.

The 6 units that are made up entirely from 460 vehicles will probably be scrapped last of all, but in complete sets.

 

[southern442]

Scrap was the consensus in all the earlier discussions in this thread. It’s been known for a couple of years that only 28 units are intended, all ex 458, and expected that all their ex 460 5th cars will be scrapped as units go to Widnes.

The 6 units that are made up entirely from 460 vehicles will probably be scrapped last of all, but in complete sets.

Most likely but I reckon the remaining 8 /5s will be around for a few years yet as part of the support for the 701 introduction.

 

[Tynwald]

it would make sense for all the 458/5 to go to to Bournemouth as well. common fleet. use on high density services.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Most likely but I reckon the remaining 8 /5s will be around for a few years yet as part of the support for the 701 introduction.

I doubt it. They will almost all need a C4 overhaul and a C6 overhaul.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like that there was a planned delivery of another 458/4 to Bournemouth today (458423?) with the locos taking 458528 away to Wembley/Widnes, but the moves have all been cancelled.

5Q72 1144 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q72 1144 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 18/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q72 1144 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 18/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5X72 1016 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5X72 1016 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 19/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5X72 1016 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 19/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5M72 1644 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5M72 1644 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 19/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5M72 1644 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 19/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Invincible]

Just as well the heating doesn't work well on the 458s...

Would have thought heating, toilets etc would be also refurbished?
Has there been any testing of the refurbished Units at Bournemouth or Portsmouth to see that the mistakes with the 442s are not repeated?

 

[444045]

Would have thought heating, toilets etc would be also refurbished?
Has there been any testing of the refurbished Units at Bournemouth or Portsmouth to see that the mistakes with the 442s are not repeated?

Not that Im aware of, having gone outside Bournemouth Depot since they arrived from Widnes.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Would have thought heating, toilets etc would be also refurbished?
Has there been any testing of the refurbished Units at Bournemouth or Portsmouth to see that the mistakes with the 442s are not repeated?

I can't remember exactly how many yearly task HVAC modules are. They were overhauled 2016/2017. Probably due when they come off lease in 2027 as a ten yearly task. The only attention would have been painting them at Widnes.

 

[Invincible]

I can't remember exactly how many yearly task HVAC modules are. They were overhauled 2016/2017. Probably due when they come off lease in 2027 as a ten yearly task. The only attention would have been painting them at Widnes.

But this is a full refurbishment costing £25 million for all 28 units to be kept.

Refurbishment for SWR's Class 458 trains thanks to new contract between Porterbrook and Alstom

Porterbrook has announced that South Western Railway's (SWR) fleet of Modern Railway’s ‘Golden Spanner awards’ winning Class 458 will undergo major improvements following a new deal with Alstom.

www.railadvent.co.uk

So would expect the new lease between Porterbrook and SWR/First/MTR will probably be finally extended in the region of say 10 years (rather than 4)?.
So SWR will want to ensure the first 12 car train will be suitable as a Portsmouth express?
Hopefully the Wimbledon depot, who did a good job, will pass on maintenance info to the Bournemouth depot

 

[Goldfish62]

But this is a full refurbishment costing £25 million for all 28 units to be kept.

Refurbishment for SWR's Class 458 trains thanks to new contract between Porterbrook and Alstom

Porterbrook has announced that South Western Railway's (SWR) fleet of Modern Railway’s ‘Golden Spanner awards’ winning Class 458 will undergo major improvements following a new deal with Alstom.

www.railadvent.co.uk

So would expect the new lease between Porterbrook and First/MTR will probably be in the region of say 10 years?.
So SWR will want to ensure the first 12 car train will be suitable as a Portsmouth express?

But if you believe what's been posted on this thread (and I neither believe nor disbelieve) ASLEF have blacked them because they're older than the current trains on the Portsmouth line and SWR have no plans to use them anyway.

Given the total dysfunctionality of today's railways neither would surprise me.

 

[Invincible]

But if you believe what's been posted on this thread (and I neither believe nor disbelieve) ASLEF have blacked them because they're older than the current trains on the Portsmouth line and SWR have no plans to use them anyway.

Given the total dysfunctionality of today's railways neither would surprise me.

But the 458s (which will have 2+2 seating) are only about 2 or 3 years older than the 450s with 2+3 seating (and therefore technically not suitable as Portsmouth express trains) they are replacing?
But as someone else said why not just refurb the 450s interior to match the 444 2+2 seating?

 

[Snow1964]

But if you believe what's been posted on this thread (and I neither believe nor disbelieve) ASLEF have blacked them because they're older than the current trains on the Portsmouth line

Sometimes never know what to believe. For first 26 miles out of Waterloo share the line with much older 159 and 455s, then for last few miles to Portsmouth, share the tracks with older 158s and 165s.
Meanwhile ASLEF drivers operate 458s to Waterloo-Reading

I have never personally heard of blacking the middle part of a line due to train age.

 

[Mzzzs]

I think it's not age but the design that is the problem the cab looks cramped

 

[swt_passenger]

I think it's not age but the design that is the problem the cab looks cramped

The same cab they’ve been using on the Reading and Windsor side since the 458/5 conversion?

 

[pigs bay]

Sometimes never know what to believe. For first 26 miles out of Waterloo share the line with much older 159 and 455s, then for last few miles to Portsmouth, share the tracks with older 158s and 165s.
Meanwhile ASLEF drivers operate 458s to Waterloo-Reading

I have never personally heard of blacking the middle part of a line due to train age.

This refurb is sounding like the class 442 and class 769 story. This is becoming a bad habit with first group!!!

 

[D6130]

This refurb is sounding like the class 442 and class 769 story. This is becoming a bad habit with first group!!!

But haven't we already established that these refurbs were initiated by the ROSCOs rather than the TOCs?

 

[43096]

But haven't we already established that these refurbs were initiated by the ROSCOs rather than the TOCs?

The 458/4 refurbishments? The project was initiated by SWR and DfT at the same time as they announced the end of the 442 fiasco.

 

[WarrenTManager]

But this is a full refurbishment costing £25 million for all 28 units to be kept.

I wouldn't spend about a million pounds to overhaul something circa 60% through its life for a lease only lasting the other 40%

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This refurb is sounding like the class 442 and class 769 story. This is becoming a bad habit with first group!!!

If the rumours about refusing the cab are to believe, it’s ASLEF to blame here, not First Group.

 

[TEW]

The two aren't connected. SWR have no plans to use them, ASLEF require the cabs to be upgraded if they were to be used in service, SWR aren't doing any cab upgrades because they aren't going to introduce them in to service.

 

[Snow1964]

The two aren't connected. SWR have no plans to use them, ASLEF require the cabs to be upgraded if they were to be used in service, SWR aren't doing any cab upgrades because they aren't going to introduce them in to service.

Sorry to sound naive here, if SWR do not intend to put them in servivce, what is the point of repainting them into SWR colours

Your comment makes it sound like they are spending millions to turn them into ornaments parked in sidings

 

[pompeyfan]

Sorry to sound naive here, if SWR do not intend to put them in servivce, what is the point of repainting them into SWR colours

Your comment makes it sound like they are spending millions to turn them into ornaments parked in sidings

Because the contracts were already signed and clearly the cancellation penalty was more than the value of the contract.

The money has already been spent, but the downturn in revenue (not passenger numbers) means the DfT don’t want to fund their introduction.

Night testing and FFR on the refurbished units begins within the next month. Mainly Bournemouth to Basingstoke and Bournemouth to Guildford.