SWR Class 458 to be retained

[swt_passenger]

So getting this clear, SWR are going to end up the following fleets that don't multi with anything else

701
450+444
458
455

Presume the 455s disappear when sufficient 701s enter service and crew are trained

Yes, but the 450/444, 701 and 458 will all be able to couple up to rescue each other. Which is far more flexibility than they had only a few years ago.

 

[43096]

So getting this clear, SWR are going to end up the following fleets that don't multi with anything else

701
450+444
458
455

Presume the 455s disappear when sufficient 701s enter service and crew are trained

And 158+159.

 

[Western Sunset]

And the IOW units...

 

[Meerkat]

And the IOW units...

Stay where you are, we are sending a 158 to rescue you……do you have food and water?

 

[TEW]

Yes, but the 450/444, 701 and 458 will all be able to couple up to rescue each other. Which is far more flexibility than they had only a few years ago.

All the fleets are also going to be large enough that it's unlikely to be an issue sourcing a unit of the same class to rescue where necessary anyway. Usually any breakdown long enough to necessitate rescue would mean any trains trapped behind being released by some means, with an empty train sent to rescue.

 

[swr444]

So getting this clear, SWR are going to end up the following fleets that don't multi with anything else

701
450+444
458
455

Presume the 455s disappear when sufficient 701s enter service and crew are trained

701 for metro/suburban, 444/450 for long distance (including Alton to Waterloo) and also outside of London services. 458s if you’re lucky (or unlucky) and 455 will be scrapped eventually.

 

[Western Sunset]

Stay where you are, we are sending a 158 to rescue you……do you have food and water?

Thanks, I'm OK at the moment, though I've heard (through shed gossip at Ryde), that units that go to Yarmouth get sent to Mexico...

But I thought the line to Freshwater closed years ago. Oh, you mean a different Yarmouth. Phew!

 

[K.o.R]

458407 and 458417 at St Denys with 5Q91 13:20 Basingstoke - Bournemouth T&RSMD, on 10th October 2023.View attachment 144652

Very smart!

 

[Snow1964]

So if the original plan was for three units and at least 5 have been done or are being done as we speak, something must have changed. I hardly believe the ROSCO would convert extra units needlessly. My best guess based on this is either SWR really are going forward with this scheme beyond the initial batch or the weirder option that whoever owns the trains is converting more than neseccary, possibly to make the fleet more marketable? Even then, the latter seems unlikely.

Possibly the answer is on page 70 of SWR agreement
Of the 180 (36 x 5car), the reconfigured to 112 as 28 units of 4car are on lease now through to 21st August 2027

So appears in exchange for returning 68 vehicles, and reconfiguring, they locked themselves in for another few years to 2027 (3 years after other SWR leases ended, and at the time 3 years after SWR contract ended). I suspect as part of this the financial penalties for not continuing conversions probably more than trying to break the deal.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61655c73d3bf7f56077ce62e/first-mtr-south-western-trains-ltd-rail-contract.pdf

 

[slicedbread]

Possibly the answer is on page 70 of SWR agreement
Of the 180 (36 x 5car), the reconfigured to 112 as 28 units of 4car are on lease now through to 21st August 2027

So appears in exchange for returning 68 vehicles, and reconfiguring, they locked themselves in for another few years to 2027 (3 years after other SWR leases ended, and at the time 3 years after SWR contract ended). I suspect as part of this the financial penalties for not continuing conversions probably more than trying to break the deal.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61655c73d3bf7f56077ce62e/first-mtr-south-western-trains-ltd-rail-contract.pdf

That does match up with the announcement from Porterbrook back in April 2021 about the contract with Alstrom to change the 458s

Porterbrook awards Alstom £25m fleet upgrade contract · Porterbrook

www.porterbrook.co.uk

Which included a paragraph:

"The announcement follows the decision by South Western Railway (SWR) to extend the leases on Porterbrook’s award-winning Class 458 fleet until 2027."

 

[spark001uk]

Does anyone happen to know what the plan is re: trialling a 12 car formation? Have they got to complete some ffr as 8 first.?

 

[RealTrains07]

Are there any photos of the interior? Not sure if i missed any being posted previously?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are there any photos of the interior? Not sure if i missed any being posted previously?

Not released as of yet, though I'm looking forward to seeing.
That said, if SWR really do have no plans to use them, then they probably don't want to release photos or make much of a hype about the refurbishment, if they know customers aren't likely to be on-board.

 

[TEW]

I've seen some photos on an internal document and it's a little underwhelming. Looks like a lot of the interior hasn't been painted so remains in SWT colours. Unlike the Desiros the grab handles have been painted out of orange.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've seen some photos on an internal document and it's a little underwhelming. Looks like a lot of the interior hasn't been painted so remains in SWT colours. Unlike the Desiros the grab handles have been painted out of orange.

Still exciting, hopefully that photo will be shared by someone with the permission in future.

 

[fgwrich]

I've seen some photos on an internal document and it's a little underwhelming. Looks like a lot of the interior hasn't been painted so remains in SWT colours. Unlike the Desiros the grab handles have been painted out of orange.

Are we carpeted or have they kept the SWT Lino flooring?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Are we carpeted or have they kept the SWT Lino flooring?

They are carpeted.

 

[RealTrains07]

I've seen some photos on an internal document and it's a little underwhelming. Looks like a lot of the interior hasn't been painted so remains in SWT colours. Unlike the Desiros the grab handles have been painted out of orange.

Id say Interior wise the panels don’t really need a change of colour as the current colour works with the SWR colour scheme similar with the desiros and 158/159s.

It is interesting how the grab poles have changed colour but didn’t in the desiros though

 

[Goldfish62]

It is interesting how the grab poles have changed colour but didn’t in the desiros though

The Desiro refurb felt like a bit of a rushed botch job. It certainly turned out half-done compared with the artist's impressions.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

It is interesting how the grab poles have changed colour but didn’t in the desiros though

Remembered reading on here, there was a open day at a SWR/Siemens depot, probably Northam?, one of the attendees questioned about the orange grab poles not changed during the refurb that a staff member I think got aggressive and that was the end of that.

Either the sort of coating on the orange grab poles make it impossible to paint over that SWR were reluctant to fully replace with new cyan poles at extra cost or the Desiros perhaps under warranty or something that Siemens, as the manufacturer, may not allow alterations made to some parts of the fleet - as the orange poles possibly are fixed & difficult to remove thus risk damaging the walls/ceilings/flooring?

 

[winks]

What happens after they’ve been refurbed? Surely if they are painted in SWR colours they can’t be used elsewhere by other companies ?

 

[AJDesiro]

Remembered reading on here, there was a open day at a SWR/Siemens depot, probably Northam?, one of the attendees questioned about the orange grab poles not changed during the refurb that a staff member I think got aggressive and that was the end of that.

Either the sort of coating on the orange grab poles make it impossible to paint over that SWR were reluctant to fully replace with new cyan poles at extra cost or the Desiros perhaps under warranty or something that Siemens, as the manufacturer, would not allow alterations made to some parts of the fleet?

The 350/1 and 185 refurbs both included repainted grab poles, and when you consider the 350/1s were originally for SWT, it’s evident that it’s merely penny pinching (I’m aware the 350/1s had different coloured grab poles, but it’s likely they were done to the same standard). Though the 350/3 and /4 refreshes didn’t include repainted grab poles (they’re still yellow), but the former included new seat grab handles.

 

[Ben Anslow]

The 350/1 and 185 refurbs both included repainted grab poles, and when you consider the 350/1s were originally for SWT, it’s evident that it’s merely penny pinching (I’m aware the 350/1s had different coloured grab poles, but it’s likely they were done to the same standard). Though the 350/3 and /4 refreshes didn’t include repainted grab poles (they’re still yellow), but the former included new seat grab handles.

No 350/3 has been done yet to my understanding just /1 and /4

 

[AJDesiro]

No 350/3 has been done yet to my understanding just /1 and /4

350376 re-entered service following refurbishment roughly a week ago.

 

[Ben Anslow]

350376 re-entered service following refurbishment roughly a week ago.

Thank you for letting me know didn’t realise they had started on 3s now

 

[Skimble19]

What happens after they’ve been refurbed? Surely if they are painted in SWR colours they can’t be used elsewhere by other companies ?

Why would they not be able to be used by other TOCs purely because they’re in SWR livery? Look at Great Northern.. none of the 387s are in the actual GN livery, you have base Southern livery, ex-c2c, Gatwick Express and GWR and they’re all in service. The ex-GWR units don’t even have any logos on them

 

[cjmillsnun]

What happens after they’ve been refurbed? Surely if they are painted in SWR colours they can’t be used elsewhere by other companies ?

The only thing that restricts who they can go to is the fact they are DC only.

 

[GWVillager]

The only thing that restricts who they can go to is the fact they are DC only.

Even that is a (relatively) straightforward modification though.

 

[leomartin125]

Just catching up with the position of the 458/4 fleet for SWR, wondering if some things could be clarified.

Firstly, am I right in saying that at this moment in time, SWR have no plans to put these trains into service once testing is complete?

Secondly, if the issue is with ASLEF and the cabs not being refurbished, surely one could argue that if ASLEF drivers are operating 458/5's with no quibbles, why are they not happy with the 458/4 fleet which is the same train just shorter?

And on that note, who are operating these test trains then for the 458/4 fleet from Bournemouth? If that is ASLEF SWR drivers, then I cannot understand how they can complain with the cab design once they enter service as they are driving them now whilst on test?

I'm sure there is a simple answer, usually is!

MTIA

 

[TEW]

SWR have no plans to run them in passenger service, and ASLEF want a cab refurbishment if they are used in passenger service, but that is not the reason SWR do not plan to use them in passenger service.