SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Goldfish62]

I used the line yesterday: on a 455 in both directions.

Definitely felt noisier and less comfortable than the old 458s : the 701s are nowhere near ready then?

As a regular user of the line I use RTT to avoid 455s like the plague unless it's for a short journey.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Paths are on RTT for the transfers of 458s next week.

Monday 15th April
5Z53 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Z53 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 15/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z53 0723 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 15/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 15/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1311 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 15/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 16th April
5X64 1135 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1135 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 16/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1135 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 16/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1534 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1534 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 16/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1534 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 16/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 16/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2018 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 16/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

onward paths from Eastleigh are not yet loaded.

Presumably this will be for the delivery of 458421 from Widnes and 458513 to Widnes.

As a footnote to last weeks Red Herrings, 458514 has returned from its visit to Bournemouth and was back in passenger service on 2C05 0526 London Waterloo to Reading yesterday.

 

[DMckduck97]

Tongue in cheek I assume as the Reading line has been anything but spolit! A worse timetable and service now than 20 years ago after many years of being promised 4TPH. Not to mention the closures what feels like every weekend...

Glad these are entering sergice as the situation is desperate. June still feels a long way off though, and if a training course is required (for these units that have been on these routes for 20+ years in some form or other....) then it will also delay the introduction of the 701's I assume.

I don't think with the most recent timings update on the up from reading, 4tph would be realistic without knocking multiple stops off at least 2tph.

I'm not quite sure how we've got to the point where longcross is a permanent addition to the working timetable, but it certainly causes more benefits than I suspect it offers to the service.

I presume it'll allow a cascade of 450s back onto the readings until the 701s ever appear on that line

How many years has it been since we've seen a 701 venture down the reading line? I can't recall it actually happening?

 

[43096]

As a regular user of the line I use RTT to avoid 455s like the plague unless it's for a short journey.

I try to do the same, but my regular train if I need to go into the office is now diagrammed 8-455. Fortunately my normal train home is still (for now at least) a 10-458.

 

[Snow1964]

I don't think with the most recent timings update on the up from reading, 4tph would be realistic without knocking multiple stops off at least 2tph.

How many years has it been since we've seen a 701 venture down the reading line? I can't recall it actually happening?

Just for comparison, looked up last year of Southern Railway (1948), trains to Reading were only hourly departing Waterloo xx:54 and arriving Reading xx:09 (75 minutes later) with train dividing at Ascot.

The 458s leave xx:50 (4 minutes earlier), don't divide on route and take 8 minutes (11%) longer arriving xx:14

.... three quarters of a century has resulted in trains slower than in post war rundown era.

 

[JonathanH]

The 458s leave xx:50 (4 minutes earlier), don't divide on route and take 8 minutes (11%) longer arriving xx:14

.... three quarters of a century has resulted in trains slower than in post war rundown status.

They are four minutes slower than advertised in the December 2004 timetable, which itself was a slowdown from before, but 76, 80, 84 minutes is all roughly the same duration. Short of something radical happening the Reading line isn't going to be sped up.

 

[DMckduck97]

Just for comparison, looked up last year of Southern Railway (1948), trains to Reading were only hourly departing Waterloo xx:54 and arriving Reading xx:09 (75 minutes later) with train dividing at Ascot.

The 458s leave xx:50 (4 minutes earlier), don't divide on route and take 8 minutes (11%) longer arriving xx:14

.... three quarters of a century has resulted in trains slower than in post war rundown era.

I also think you've got to factor in much more defensive PDPs into the equation, defensive driving and route features play a massive factor.

Virginia Water to Reading is low adhesion all the way if I'm not mistaken, which is probably why it's been slowed down considerably.

 

[Goldfish62]

I also think you've got to factor in much more defensive PDPs into the equation, defensive driving and route features play a massive factor.

Virginia Water to Reading is low adhesion all the way if I'm not mistaken, which is probably why it's been slowed down considerably.

There's also a lot of padding.

The other afternoon I took the train to Waterloo. The driver and guard were unexceptional, ie nothing particularly slower or faster than usual. The train left Bracknell 4 min late and arrived at Waterloo 4 min early. It made up 8 min without trying.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I also think you've got to factor in much more defensive PDPs into the equation, defensive driving and route features play a massive factor.

Virginia Water to Reading is low adhesion all the way if I'm not mistaken, which is probably why it's been slowed down considerably.

only in leafall season

 

[swr444]

I think people forget that trains are a lot busier than they were in the past, hence the longer dwells of people getting on and off trains needed. stations and trains are a lot more accessible than before which allows people with reduced mobility to use trains, and they require extra time to board and alight.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think people forget that trains are a lot busier than they were in the past, hence the longer dwells of people getting on and off trains needed. stations and trains are a lot more accessible than before which allows people with reduced mobility to use trains, and they require extra time to board and alight.

and opening and closing a slam door even when the train was stationary has a much speedier door cycle time than modern sliding door stock especially with the sclerotic 450 doors. Thats worth 10-15secs per station although at busier stations sliding doors are probably more consistent in dwell times.

 

[Bigfoot]

only in leafall season

If you believe that things only get slippery in 'leafall' then you're sadly mistaken.

 

[43096]

There's also a lot of padding.

The other afternoon I took the train to Waterloo. The driver and guard were unexceptional, ie nothing particularly slower or faster than usual. The train left Bracknell 4 min late and arrived at Waterloo 4 min early. It made up 8 min without trying.

Much of the padding has been added since the change of operator to SWR. WorstGroup have imported "FGW disease" which is to add padding to the timetable to deal with poor performance. What it actually does is make performance worse as there's no attempt to deal with sloppy operating, so they end up just bunging more and more time into the timetable rather than addressing the root cause.

It is clear, though, that the door cycle times on the 450s do not help: one of the few benefits of the 455s is that station working is much faster.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If you believe that things only get slippery in 'leafall' then you're sadly mistaken.

Of course not a variety of climatic conditions can impact adhesion but that applies across the whole network and sectional running times have an allowance for that. The poster above specifically identified a certain section and there are many routes across the UK that are more afflicted by low adhesion risk from leaves and have temporary timetables put in place to cater for the seasonal risk.

 

[ComUtoR]

Of course not a variety of climatic conditions can impact adhesion but that applies across the whole network and sectional running times have an allowance for that. The poster above specifically identified a certain section and there are many routes across the UK that are more afflicted by low adhesion risk from leaves and have temporary timetables put in place to cater for the seasonal risk.

There is also the industrial pollution that also causes low adhesion

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There is also the industrial pollution that also causes low adhesion

Not sure thats very prevalent at Virgina Water

 

[Bigfoot]

Not sure thats very prevalent at Virgina Water

Just a little airport down the road, and two major motorways. You'd be surprised.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Just a little airport down the road, and two major motorways. You'd be surprised.

The 701's seem very capable of putting the power down on this corridor

 

[DMckduck97]

Of course not a variety of climatic conditions can impact adhesion but that applies across the whole network and sectional running times have an allowance for that. The poster above specifically identified a certain section and there are many routes across the UK that are more afflicted by low adhesion risk from leaves and have temporary timetables put in place to cater for the seasonal risk.

Was just pointing out that until SWR employed the leaf fall timetable between Virginia water and reading in the up direction, almost every train was getting to Virginia water late. Therefore delaying the 2Sxx and 2Uxx and even the 2Kxx at St Margaret's.

The padding between Clapham and Waterloo is ridiculous though.

 

[The_Train]

Any confirmation of what is on 5Q62 today please?

 

[444045]

Any confirmation of what is on 5Q62 today please?

57303/Barrier/458421/barrier on 5Q62.

 

[Russel]

Been a while since I last looked at this thread, are we any further along with knowing what the plan is for the 458 fleet, has anything been agreed or is it still all up in the air?

 

[swr444]

Been a while since I last looked at this thread, are we any further along with knowing what the plan is for the 458 fleet, has anything been agreed or is it still all up in the air?

They’re to be used on the Windsor side from June

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The story keeps changing. First Waybridge and Windsor, then Hounslow Loop and Waybridge, and now Windsor again

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The story keeps changing. First Waybridge and Windsor, then Hounslow Loop and Waybridge, and now Windsor again

No, I think you might be getting “Windsor side” confused with the specific Windsor and Eton bound services. “Windsor side” refers to the lines to the left (facing North) of the sidings at Clapham Junction, running through Putney and either via Richmond/Twickenham or Hounslow/Brentford and onwards, to differentiate from the mainline, which are the lines to the right (facing North) of the sidings, and to the left of the Brighton Main Line.

For clarity, Reading, Weybridge, Windsor & ER, Hounslow and Teddington via Strawberry Hill (plus peak Farnham via Ascot and Shepperton via Strawberry Hill) services are all Windsor lines services.

So when swr444 stated that they’ll be used on the Windsor side from June, this is quite right, even though they will run to Weybridge via Hounslow, not actually to Windsor. And the Hounslow loop is pretty much a shortened part of the Weybridge service anyway now.

 

[swr444]

The story keeps changing. First Waybridge and Windsor, then Hounslow Loop and Waybridge, and now Windsor again

weybridge and hounslow loop IS the windsor side. 701s are slowly rolling out on the windsor and eton riv diagrams (2Uxx) so do not need the 458/4s. they are being deployed on the weybridge and hounslow services to release 450s to be used on the reading line so the 455s can go onto the sheppys.

 

[Russel]

They’re to be used on the Windsor side from June

So a deal has been reached to retain them oficially then?

 

[Goldfish62]

701s are slowly rolling out on the windsor and eton riv diagrams (2Uxx) so do not need the 458/4s.

All that's happened is that the two return "soft launch" journeys no longer operate and instead the 701 and its crew are used on only part of one diagram on the Windsor services. There has been no training since the "soft launch" crews were trained, therefore any rollout is as far away as ever.

 

[Western Sunset]

458422 was on Tuesday's (16th) BM - B'stoke - BM run.

 

[childwallblues]

My apologies if this has been discussed upthread.
On our way from Crewe to Nottingham on Tuesday we passed three carriages in South Western Trains livery in London North Western Yard at Stoke-on-Trent. I assume that these have been remove from Class 458 units under overhaul at Widnes. Does anybody know the final destination of theses carriages please?