SWR Class 458 to be retained

[T74]

My apologies if this has been discussed upthread.
On our way from Crewe to Nottingham on Tuesday we passed three carriages in South Western Trains livery in London North Western Yard at Stoke-on-Trent. I assume that these have been remove from Class 458 units under overhaul at Widnes. Does anybody know the final destination of theses carriages please?

I reckon stripped for spares then Newport for scrap

 

[childwallblues]

I reckon stripped for spares then Newport for scrap

That sounds plausible.

 

[warwickshire]

My apologies if this has been discussed upthread.
On our way from Crewe to Nottingham on Tuesday we passed three carriages in South Western Trains livery in London North Western Yard at Stoke-on-Trent. I assume that these have been remove from Class 458 units under overhaul at Widnes. Does anybody know the final destination of theses carriages please?

They must be going there by road From Alstom Widnes of where the 458s, are being Modified, thanks for the update, because Last week when passing Widnes Alstom Works there was a 458 coach all on its own, in the middle of nowhere next to a buffer at the end of a stabling line.
So that explains that one, ie when spilt at Alstom Widnes, then, by road to a sidings at Stoke on Trent, for onward stripping of useable parts, then as a op explains above most likely to Newport, presumably by road once more .

 

[Nym]

Potentially being stored before scrap prices increase…?

 

[RichSwitch]

Paths are on RTT for the transfers of 458s next week.

Monday 15th April
5Z53 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Tuesday 16th April
5X64 1135 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

5Q64 1534 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

You mean onward paths to Sims Metals haven’t been added yet?

 

[Benno]

458527 is the next unit planned for conversion at Widnes. Due to move from Bournemouth Tuesday 30th April.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

458527 is the next unit planned for conversion at Widnes. Due to move from Bournemouth Tuesday 30th April.

So another drop in capacity how are they going to cover that - oh i suspect i know with another diagram dropped to a 5 car no doubt

 

[Siemens Staines]

So another drop in capacity how are they going to cover that - oh i suspect i know with another diagram dropped to a 5 car no doubt

I do not know whether this is still the case, but in mid March it looked like the intention was to start using 458/4, presumably from next week?

Nothing guaranteed but six units to enter service at the end of April after cab modifications (whatever they might be).

 

[swr444]

I do not know whether this is still the case, but in mid March it looked like the intention was to start using 458/4, presumably from next week?

It’ll be in June with the timetable change. No conversion training has happened yet

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It’ll be in June with the timetable change. No conversion training has happened yet

Whats changed to need conversion training?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It’ll be in June with the timetable change. No conversion training has happened yet

Neither has the route clearance. 100mph 458s have different yaw dampers which change the kinetic envelope of the train slightly which is part of the reason they are a new subclass.

 

[43096]

Neither has the route clearance. 100mph 458s have different yaw dampers which change the kinetic envelope of the train slightly which is part of the reason they are a new subclass.

I assume you mean "kinematic envelope"?

 

[Goldfish62]

Neither has the route clearance. 100mph 458s have different yaw dampers which change the kinetic envelope of the train slightly which is part of the reason they are a new subclass.

Even though 100mph 458s have operated on the South Western before. And before anyone says they were 90 mph, on the Juniper rail tour in 2014 the pair of units were authorised to run at up to 100mph.

Sounds like just further delaying tactics by SWR.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Even though 100mph 458s have operated on the South Western before. And before anyone says they were 90 mph, on the Juniper rail tour in 2014 the pair of units were authorised to run at up to 100mph.

Sounds like just further delaying tactics by SWR.

Read it again. There are new yaw dampers for the 100mph operation. That's the reason.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Even though 100mph 458s have operated on the South Western before. And before anyone says they were 90 mph, on the Juniper rail tour in 2014 the pair of units were authorised to run at up to 100mph.

Sounds like just further delaying tactics by SWR.

Route clearance is not down to SWR but actually Network Rail.

2014 is 10 years ago, just because there were cleared then doesn’t mean the gauge of the network hasn’t changed, the whole Windsor side has been resignalled since with new trackside equipment.

Network Rail no longer so so clearance by proxy, ie it’s a similar vehicle to another one, all stock is now classified in its own right.

Because of the change of use damper Network Rail now class this as a new unit, nothing to do with delaying tactics by SWR.

You might not like the way the modern railway functions but there’s no way the TOCs can circumnavigate this, they are at the behest of the system operator.

 

[Western Sunset]

That was why when the first refurbished unit was returned to BM, there was all the palaver of it recessing at Woking and Soton Central when it was realised the new dampers were of a different configuration.

 

[swr444]

They have been cleared on the weybridge and hounslow loop lines. it's on a traction and train crew bulletin on our notice boards.

Neither has the route clearance. 100mph 458s have different yaw dampers which change the kinetic envelope of the train slightly which is part of the reason they are a new subclass.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They have been cleared on the weybridge and hounslow loop lines. it's on a traction and train crew bulletin on our notice boards.

Excellent, good to hear some progress.

 

[Bigfoot]

The 442's had lots of route restrictions when they returned even though they had run all over the place historically when they were on the network. Thing change, infrastructure is added restrictions & subsequent checks are there for a reason.

 

[Snow1964]

The 442's had lots of route restrictions when they returned even though they had run all over the place historically when they were on the network. Thing change, infrastructure is added restrictions & subsequent checks are there for a reason.

The reason obviously being, if someone makes the clearance smaller than previously documented, but keeps stumm.

Its a rather daft policy because could just as easily happen during engineering work and nobody documents it, so when next train of that type passes it has problems.

Its even more daft when they choose to fail to maintain approved vegetation clearances and branches start hitting trains.

We are talking different type of yaw damper, few mm on a 21m vehicle on lines passed for 23m vehicles, and if something was that critical then probably should have done something about improving the clearance at that location in the past. Triumph of overthinking paperwork to cover lack of previous quality checks since clearances last documented

 

[Invincible]

They have been cleared on the weybridge and hounslow loop lines. it's on a traction and train crew bulletin on our notice boards.

The lines currently have a mixture of 458s and 450s, the average speed of the lines are low as they stop at all stops.
Will release 8 car 450s for the faster Reading service.
Guess eventually will be replaced by 701s and the 458s cleared to work high speed from Portsmouth as 12 car trains?.

 

[Goldfish62]

Route clearance is not down to SWR but actually Network Rail.

2014 is 10 years ago, just because there were cleared then doesn’t mean the gauge of the network hasn’t changed, the whole Windsor side has been resignalled since with new trackside equipment.

Network Rail no longer so so clearance by proxy, ie it’s a similar vehicle to another one, all stock is now classified in its own right.

Because of the change of use damper Network Rail now class this as a new unit, nothing to do with delaying tactics by SWR.

You might not like the way the modern railway functions but there’s no way the TOCs can circumnavigate this, they are at the behest of the system operator.

Thanks - that's a very fair and informative response to my admittedly cynical comment!

 

[WarrenTManager]

Even though 100mph 458s have operated on the South Western before. And before anyone says they were 90 mph, on the Juniper rail tour in 2014 the pair of units were authorised to run at up to 100mph.

Sounds like just further delaying tactics by SWR.

Not sure where that came from. The Railtour was in 2015 and there is no engineering change to reflect that. The 458/0s always had 100mph gearboxes but the painted speed in the cab was 90mph

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but the refurbished 458s have slightly bigger cab windows and what looks like new wipers
Before:


After:

 

[WarrenTManager]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but the refurbished 458s have slightly bigger cab windows and what looks like new wipers
Before:
View attachment 157057

After:

View attachment 157058

8421 had to have a replacement driver's observation light (windscreen) last week. It's the same part number as the 458/5. Just the different look I think makes you think that.

 

[Benno]

So another drop in capacity how are they going to cover that - oh i suspect i know with another diagram dropped to a 5 car no doubt

458534 is running out if miles and will be stopped shortly, and that one isn’t going for conversion.

 

[Invincible]

458534 is running out if miles and will be stopped shortly, and that one isn’t going for conversion.

Will the DfT extend the lease?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

458534 is running out if miles and will be stopped shortly, and that one isn’t going for conversion.

Will the DfT extend the lease?

Odd one that. It’s been formally stood down before.

 

[Snow1964]

458534 is running out if miles and will be stopped shortly, and that one isn’t going for conversion.

Will the DfT extend the lease?

The decision to go down to 28 units was made quite a while back, must be 2 or 3 years ago now.

Can't imagine they would pay to extend the lease if now paying 701 lease costs

 

[Benno]

Will the DfT extend the lease?

In this case it's not about extending the lease. It is running out of miles until heavy maintenance is due, a C4 exam I believe. This would need carrying out before the lease could be extended. Much better to get one of the 458/4s into traffic, or even get some 701s into service.