SWR MG11 Notice - Rail Response

[UKR2024]

Hello Rail Forum Community,

First time poster and not sure if this is the correct way to ask for support etc. so please let me know if this isn't correct or if there is a better way but I hope this is right.

I am reaching out to seek support and guidance regarding an fare evasion investigation following an MG11 notice on the rail from South Western Railway network.

In December of last year (2023), I was approached by SWR revenue staff during a journey to Wimbledon Railway Station. I presented a ticket with a 16-17 Saver Railcard discount applied but didn't have a railcard (over 18) when requested. As a result, I was reported for prosecution with an MG11 notice and waited for SWR to respond.

Before I go further I have been doing this for a number of years while I was unaware this could lead to prosecution (despite the notices on the trains) and I'm aware this was stupid for so many reasons I am genuinely sorry for my mistakes and haven't done it since and won't be but aware again this was numerous bad decisions and it's fully my fault. I regret it whole heartedly, I know that might not feel genuine given the length of time but that is all I can portray over text, anything else I could do to support that claim I would.

Moving forward SWR has under the authority granted by Railway Byelaws and National Conditions of Travel 2022, investigated this case. Through a Data Sharing agreement, accessed my Trainline purchase history, which has revealed ticket usage and Railcard application on journeys between 2020, and 2023 not just the event at the end of 2023 which I was approached by revenue staff.

They provided a pre-court partial disclosure document, Exhibit, detailing the highlighted journeys under suspicion. They requested to provide an accurate account of each journey, specifying start and finish points, possession of a valid Railcard, and if any tickets were refunded - which I have now completed (to my best knowledge - given these were years ago).

In the interest of resolving this matter efficiently, I have been given an opportunity for an out-of-court settlement by responding truthfully within 7 days (Thursday 7th March 2024). They also noted, additional evidence, such as ticket tap data and CCTV footage, may be presented if the case proceeds to court.

They mentioned getting support and guidance can be through the Citizens Advice Service but I also read online that RailUk forums are great at providing support.

With your assistance, I hope to achieve a resolution without the need for further legal action. I'll do absolutely everything I can to avoid court but I know I can only do so much. I would really appreciate all your support it's been a hellish few months waiting for the email which I know I rightly deserve so I really just want to close this whatever the end result is and not have to think about it ever again.

Once again appreciate your help - I don't know what that help looks like but any and all help is appreciated and advice on how to respond by 7th March and anyone else I should reach out to.

Thank you

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I would suggest that you take up their offer of an out-of-court settlement and pay up immediately. This makes the matter go away and you won't be prosecuted

In future, please travel with the correct ticket

 

[UKR2024]

Thank you @Islineclear3_1 I do fully intend to take up the offer if they come back as an option but I assume this will be based on the Exhibit RJM-1 being returned and reviewed by SWR.

My main questions are (along with any other thoughts from the forums are:
- Is there anything I should or shouldn't be including the email back?
- Do I mention/acknowledge the slight uncertainty on the details for the journeys taking place further back? (I've been full honest as much as I can remember)
- Anything else I should include in the email back to them or anyone i should consult?

Safe to say i have fully learnt my lesson to use the correct ticket and stop trying to game the system.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yes, I would send it back with an apologetic letter. @Hadders frequently posts the things to mention if you want an idea.

I think at this stage it's not worth disputing any of the journeys which they have highlighted, unless you have absolute proof that you travelled with a valid ticket - you'll probably have to take any further loss from those on the chin, as a consequence of defrauding the railway for so long.

And don't think of it as "gaming the system". It's not. It's outright fraud, and given how long this has been going on you are very lucky to be offered the opportunity of a settlement and not be taken to court.

 

[UKR2024]

Thank you for the note @Brissle Girl and I'll review the posts from Hadders to form the email back and your final note is certainly not lost on me now. Appreciate the support and guidance

I've attached the email breakdown below (without personal details) and I'm hoping to get some guidance on to help me draft an email response back (I've been using the previous guidance I've seen from @Hadders so far but any views would be helpful:

I am presently conducting an investigation into your case. During this trip, you were approached by a member of the SWR Revenue staff on a South Western Railway train service. You presented a ticket with a 16-17 Saver Railcard discount applied. When asked for your 16-17 Saver Railcard, you were unable to present your valid Railcard. Consequently you were reported for prosecution, as your ticket was not valid for your journey.



As part of this investigation, I possess the authority, in accordance with the Railway Byelaws and National Conditions of Travel 2022, to scrutinize all tickets purchased and used on the South Western Railway network if an offence has taken place. Through a Data Sharing agreement, I have gained access to your entire Trainline Purchase History. Upon reviewing your purchase history, it has come to my attention that there are other journeys on the South Western Railway Network, where evidence suggests that multiple tickets that may not be valid for the entirety of your journey, or have a 16-17 Saver Railcard discount applied. These journeys occurred between the dates of 2020 to 2023.



I have attached the pre-court partial disclosure document Exhibit, which includes your online Trainline ticket purchase history. All journeys under suspicion are numbered and highlighted in yellow. This provides an opportunity for you to provide an accurate account of each journey, specifying the start and finish points and if you were in possession of a valid Railcard. Could you please complete this document and return this via email, completing columns R,S,T and U for each highlighted line, stating the Start and Finish stations in Column R that you travelled from and to, if a Return journey was made in Column S, Yes/No. In Column T state whether you were in possession of a valid 16-17 Saver Railcard, Yes/No for each journey (Providing photographic proof via email of the card or a screen print of the digital card with expiry dates). In Column U state whether you travelled on a Refunded ticket, Yes/No for each journey.



If you respond with a truthful account, there may be an opportunity for an out-of-court settlement. It is essential to note that we do have additional evidence, including ticket tap data (which shows where the ticket was scanned and used), refund data, and we may access CCTV footage, which could be presented if your case was to proceed to court.



I strongly advise against ignoring this communication and suggest seeking specific independent fare evasion legal advice. Assistance and guidance can be obtained on the internet and from the Citizens Advice Service, and I have attached a link for your reference: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ .



It is my hope that with your assistance, we can work towards a resolution without the need for the potential of this case proceeding to court and further legal action.



Thank you for your cooperation, and I look forward to your prompt response.

 

[30907]

The mail you have received is probably a generic one, as it references various forms of ticket fraud.
As SWR have asked you to complete their spreadsheet, you should attempt to do so as accurately as you can. Assuming you have not been short-faring or using refunded tickets, column T is the key.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It seems to me that SWR are willing to offer an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them. They are likely to want you to pay them the cost of the fares avoided at full Anytime rate (with no discount for the tickets you did purchase) plus an administration fee to cover their costs of investigating the case. You would need to confirm the situation regarding the journeys they've listed on their spreadsheet - if you don't think any of the journeys listed are correct then you would need to provide them with a substantial reason as to why.

When you send the spreadsheet back send a covering letter using the guidelines you'll have seen in my posts on other similar threads. If you post a copy of your draft reply in this thread we will be happy to proof read it for you.

If you need to respond by the 7th you really need to get your letter in the post by tomorrow (Tuesday 5th).

 

[UKR2024]

Thank you @30907 and @Hadders appreciate you reviewing and getting back and Hadders all the support and guidance you've given in the past - really helpful.

I've drafted an email to support the document as below would be great to hear your view and any feedback:
Hello ..... ,

I want to express my gratitude for your message and for laying out the situation and the necessary steps so clearly.

I deeply regret my past actions and acknowledge the gravity of the situation. I want to assure you that I have learned from this experience and am committed to never repeating it. I now understand that my previous behaviour constitutes a criminal offence, and I have taken steps to rectify the situation. I have purchased the correct rail card and have been paying for full-length journeys since.

I am grateful for your openness and honesty in your email, and I am eager to resolve this matter without resorting to legal action. I am willing to pay for the outstanding fares and cover South Western Railways' administrative costs.

I am fully committed to cooperating with you to resolve this issue. I have completed the attached Exhibit spreadsheet to the best of my ability, detailing my recollection of events for each highlighted journey. I am open to reviewing the cases again if needed.

Please let me know the next steps and the expected timeframe.

Thanks

 

[Brissle Girl]

The language is still a bit too flowery and OTT for my liking.

For example "I want to express my gratitude" could be "Thank you". And I do wonder if those reading these letters keep a tally of the number of times they hear about the "gravity of the situation".

And I'm really not sure you should be thanking them for their honesty!

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you @30907 and @Hadders appreciate you reviewing and getting back and Hadders all the support and guidance you've given in the past - really helpful.

I've drafted an email to support the document as below would be great to hear your view and any feedback:
Hello ..... ,

I want to express my gratitude for your message and for laying out the situation and the necessary steps so clearly.

I deeply regret my past actions and acknowledge the gravity of the situation. I want to assure you that I have learned from this experience and am committed to never repeating it. I now understand that my previous behaviour constitutes a criminal offence, and I have taken steps to rectify the situation. I have purchased the correct rail card and have been paying for full-length journeys since.

I am grateful for your openness and honesty in your email, and I am eager to resolve this matter without resorting to legal action. I am willing to pay for the outstanding fares and cover South Western Railways' administrative costs.

I am fully committed to cooperating with you to resolve this issue. I have completed the attached Exhibit spreadsheet to the best of my ability, detailing my recollection of events for each highlighted journey. I am open to reviewing the cases again if needed.

Please let me know the next steps and the expected timeframe.

Thanks

This is AI generated, isn't it? I have a browser extension which highlights AI content and it stands out a mile anyway.

Ticks all the boxes but as @Brissle Girl says this is way too flowery. Don't use ChatGPT to write letters or emails without editing all the passive and flowery language out - this is a serious matter, but overdoing it will look and sound insincere. At this stage, SWR have you hook line and sinker and are just asking for the money back plus their costs, so you do not need to beg or beseech them. Remember you are dealing with a faceless company who catch thousands of people and who are mostly motivated by getting the fares avoided back into their coffers.

"Express my gratitude for your message" nobody says this. Say "Thank you for your email of (DATE)"

"Now understand my previous behaviour constitutes a criminal offence" - I'd take this out, it's not doing anything for you. I think you knew all along this was dishonest behaviour; it is not suddenly a surprise that this would be a problem when detected.

"grateful for your openness and honesty" remove this. Put in something like "I have read your email closely and I am eager to resolve this matter...etc etc"

 

[UKR2024]

Appreciate the review both @Brissle Girl and @AlterEgo and correct this is a AI converted text copy (I didn't want my version out there for any connection to dropped through a generator) - my version isn't anywhere near as 'flowery' but taken the points above into consideration. I mainly wanted to get an idea I was tracking the right points but the language itself is different.

Thanks both

 

[junkrat74]

Hi, what was the outcome of your case?

 

[FenMan]

Hi, what was the outcome of your case?

At a guess? Expensively.

However, this forum's rules are clear. One case = one thread. So, if you are looking for good advice, please open your own thread.

 

[UKR2024]

@junkrat74 SWR acknowledged the information, a few weeks later and then offered an out of court settlement or an escalations to review in court. I picked the former and settled right away. You'll see and also receive plenty of helpful information on these forums, unfortunately with that a lot of it will come with a very negative tone (even given the serious situation). Most people posting on here for the first time will be genuinely remorseful and worried (that's likely the whole point of the notice), something you won't be able to tell just from the message anyway but the tone certainly would get most people even more down about the situation - more so than is needed in my opinion. My advice would be take the standard guidance from Hadders etc (search is best) and then wait till you hear from the rail company - it was a fairly simple (if long initial) process and the best thing for your mind is to calm it and distance yourself from here until you hear more from the rail company.

Good luck and hopeful for a positive outcome

 

[Hadders]

@junkrat74 SWR acknowledged the information, a few weeks later and then offered an out of court settlement or an escalations to review in court. I picked the former and settled right away. You'll see and also receive plenty of helpful information on these forums, unfortunately with that a lot of it will come with a very negative tone (even given the serious situation). Most people posting on here for the first time will be genuinely remorseful and worried (that's likely the whole point of the notice), something you won't be able to tell just from the message anyway but the tone certainly would get most people even more down about the situation - more so than is needed in my opinion. My advice would be take the standard guidance from Hadders etc (search is best) and then wait till you hear from the rail company - it was a fairly simple (if long initial) process and the best thing for your mind is to calm it and distance yourself from here until you hear more from the rail company.

Good luck and hopeful for a positive outcome

Thanks for updating us on your case.

I am concerned to read about the negative tone of some posts. Forum members will typically ask some robust questions to helo establish exactly what has happened in a pareticular case but if anyone thinks that a particular post is rude, disrespectful or breaks our forum rules then please don't reply to the post but report it to the Moderating Team using the 'report' button in the bottom left hand corner of the post and we will look into it.

 

[UKR2024]

Thanks for updating us on your case.

I am concerned to read about the negative tone of some posts. Forum members will typically ask some robust questions to helo establish exactly what has happened in a pareticular case but if anyone thinks that a particular post is rude, disrespectful or breaks our forum rules then please don't reply to the post but report it to the Moderating Team using the 'report' button in the bottom left hand corner of the post and we will look into it.

Thanks Hadders, you've actually been the most helpful, clearly very well respected and established around here. Will keep that in mind but not planning on being in again. Thanks for your help and advice.