TfL in bidding to run Buenos Aires metro

[Dann]

Just seen this article on the Guardian:

Londoners may complain about the capital’s tube network, but Buenos Aires is so impressed that it is considering turning to Transport for London to run its commuter system.

London’s publicly owned transport operator is bidding to take control of the Argentinian capital’s metro system, the Guardian has learned, in what would be the first time in recent years TfL has expanded overseas.

The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, is understood to have raised the potential bid with Argentinian officials during a recent tour of South America, where he promised to seek post-Brexit trade deals.

Under the proposal, TfL would use its expertise to help install a management team to run the Buenos Aires network, with staff potentially drawn from the existing London network.

The news that the publicly owned TfL could export its rail expertise comes as British commuters struggle with the botched implementation of a new timetable for privately run rail services across large parts of the country. In London commuters have experienced widespread cancellations on Thameslink services, which are not controlled by TfL.

The Buenos Aires contract is potentially worth about $3.5bn (£2.6bn) over 10 years, with TfL in line for about a quarter of that sum.

TfL is bidding as part of a consortium that includes the French business Keolis and the Argentinian Corporación América conglomerate. The final bid is due to be submitted within the next few weeks, with the TfL consortium facing competition from the Paris Métro and the local Argentinian provider.

Many UK railway franchises are ultimately controlled by foreign nationalised railway companies, leading to regular complaints that British commuters are subsidising commuters in France, the Netherlands, and Germany.

If TfL’s bid for the Argentinian contract is successful it would represent a rare case of money flowing back from overseas into a publicly owned UK transport organisation.

TfL faces a funding squeeze after losing its £700m central government grant, lower-than-expected passenger numbers, and the decision of the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, to impose a fare freeze during his first four-year term.

As a result, Khan has ordered the creation of Transport for London Consulting, building on a manifesto commitment made during his 2016 election campaign. The new organisation has a brief to pitch for work around the world and reinvest profits in London’s transport network. The organisation says any overseas work will not interfere with its domestic operations.

TfL announced last week it has hired Helen Murphy to run its new consultancy arm and she is due to take up the job next month.

The transport organisation has also signed a deal with a third-party consulting group to license its contactless ticketing system to other metros such as Sydney.

A TfL spokesperson said: “We are examining a wide range of options to generate additional commercial income to invest in running and modernising transport in London. This potentially includes helping with the operation of transport infrastructure on behalf of other cities.”

 

[700007]

Not too sure what to make of this as it is quite a big story if the contract is agreed upon. Surely it could only do good for them and do good for TfL and their deficit?

 

[DarloRich]

good for them - why shouldn't a British company bid to run trains in another country?

 

[Monty]

good for them - why shouldn't a British company bid to run trains in another country?

Since everyone else is doing it, indeed why not?

 

[Qwerty133]

So the Argentinian government is going to subsidise the British government subsidising the French, German and Dutch governments...

 

[Tim M]

There is precedence for this as London Underground we’re heavily involved in building and advising both the Hong Kong Mass Rapid Transit and Singapore Mass Transit Railway in the 1970’s and 1980’s respectively. They also provided consultancy in the 1980’s to Beijing Subway which lead to a U.K. consortium updating the signalling, brakes, train doors, telecoms and SCADA systems on Line 1 about a year after Tiananmen Square troubles.

Interestingly the consultancy arm of British Rail called Transmark were consultants to the significant upgrade to the Kowloon Canton Railway in Canton at the same time as the Hong Kong MRT work, there being quite a number of U.K. railway engineers in the territory during the 1980’s. Transmark went on to do work on new lines being built for the State Railway of Thailand in the 1980’s and 1990’s.

Consultancy sort of died or were absorbed into the big consultancy firms as a result of BR privatisation and LU Public Private Partnerships. The U.K. has the expertise, but has for many years been stifled by politics and competition from big consultancy firms and the realisation by European railways that they have a lot to offer. For example about ten years ago I went to Beijing to talk to the China Railway Signalling Company about working with them on Cairo Metro Line 2. There was little chance insuch anarrangment succeeding as the French had already built Line 1, were consultants for Line 2 and the money to build the line was French. I will leave you to your own conclusions.

I wish LU well with Buenos Aires, hopefully they have good Spanish speakers on the team.

 

[DarloRich]

Consultancy sort of died or were absorbed into the big consultancy firms as a result of BR privatisation and LU Public Private Partnerships.

it still goes on: https://www.networkrailconsulting.com/

 

[Monty]

good for them - why shouldn't a British company bid to run trains in another country?

Since everyone else is doing it, indeed why not?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The irony... Other state owned operators can run our railways, our state owned operators can run others' railways, but woe betide a state owned operator running our own railways!

 

[Bletchleyite]

good for them - why shouldn't a British company bid to run trains in another country?

That was my first thought. Obviously BR isn't there to do it - but why not TfL?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The Guardian should have gone and bidded for the Buenos Aires Metro too, they're not doing great on the press front but if they had a crack at running public transport they could be good at it.

The more British firms that bid, the better.

 

[CC 72100]

I think this is a perfectly sensible and logical decision by TfL.

However I remain cynical that, if they were to be successful, deficiencies or problems with the service closer to home will see the press round on them like hawks and criticise them for "playing trains abroad whilst they deliver a poor service at home etc."

They would of course be very separate operations and the commercial arm not allowed to hinder the core bit of the London-based operation, but I can predict many cheap shots directed their way for being "distracted".

 

[Clip]

The irony... Other state owned operators can run our railways, our state owned operators can run others' railways, but woe betide a state owned operator running our own railways!

you mean like dor did and lner are soon to be doing so?

 

[HowardGWR]

I don't read anything in the French German or Dutch press of that nature.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

If TfL were that committed to running overseas operations then why can’t they do the same over here instead of having the German State running London Overground.

 

[CC 72100]

I don't read anything in the French German or Dutch press of that nature.

Have they got such a (generally speaking) anti-rail press though?

 

[Domh245]

If TfL were that committed to running overseas operations then why can’t they do the same over here instead of having the German State running London Overground.

The Railways Act of 1993 explicitly forbids "The Greater London Authority" and "Transport for London" from being franchisees, which also applies to concession style contracts such as the Overground and Crossrail.

 

[30907]

Have they got such a (generally speaking) anti-rail press though?

Maybe marginally less, but there are plenty of complaints on enthusiast forums about DB's foreign ventures.

 

[TRAX]

Have they got such a (generally speaking) anti-rail press though?

France has, yes.

 

[squizzler]

I am surprised Boris Johnson missed the obvious opportunity to offend the Brunos Aries hosts with a misjudged Basil Fawlty style mention of the war. There was even a legendary Private Eye spoof of the time: “kill an argie and win a metro”.

 

[D365]

you mean like dor did and lner are soon to be doing so?

LNER will not be state operated. And DOR certainly wasn't permitted to compete for new franchises - I don't remember the Treasury being best pleased when EIL put in a bid to take over from DOR.

 

[Clip]

LNER will not be state operated. And DOR certainly wasn't permitted to compete for new franchises - I don't remember the Treasury being best pleased when EIL put in a bid to take over from DOR.

you do get the point I was making to the post i quoted don't you?

 

[Domh245]

LNER will not be state operated. And DOR certainly wasn't permitted to compete for new franchises - I don't remember the Treasury being best pleased when EIL put in a bid to take over from DOR.

EIL??

 

[D365]

EIL??

Apologies; Eurostar International Limited. This was before they conveniently sold off LCR (London and Continental Railways) shares in the former company.

 

[wastedlife]

I must be the only one then who thinks this is a potty idea that has disaster written all over it - rather like Norwegian starting airline operations in Argentina.
It's 7000 miles away, they still don't like us very much - there's plenty of graffiti around BsAs about the Malvinas even now - the cultural differences are like night and day, stability is not a word you'd use for the economics, politics and particularly not the currency; there is every chance that they elect another populist lunatic a la Kirchner in 18 months time - who last time round devoted considerable time and effort to expropriating foreign run or owned assets. All for £65m a year - a minor, non-core operation that could well become a serious headache. Yes, I have seen at first hand what happens when gringos go into Latin America thinking everything will be fine and dandy....

 

[Mikey C]

Argentina is certainly a fairly turbulent country, I hope TfL won't be shouldering too much financial risk

TfL employ staff to run its operations in London, I'm assuming that the skilled people required to assist other countries are going to be pretty busy anyway, so this will require additional staff to operate these overseas ventures, so it isn't money for nothing.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Apologies; Eurostar International Limited. This was before they conveniently sold off LCR (London and Continental Railways) shares in the former company.

Not sure I get the 'conveniently' comment? It was always a long held plan that the British (LCR) stake in Eurostar would be sold off.

 

[whhistle]

The Railways Act of 1993 explicitly forbids "The Greater London Authority" and "Transport for London" from being franchisees, which also applies to concession style contracts such as the Overground and Crossrail.

Acts can always be changed...
It may have seemed a good idea in 1993, but near on 30 years later, perhaps it isn't such a good idea now.

 

[Domh245]

Acts can always be changed...
It may have seemed a good idea in 1993, but near on 30 years later, perhaps it isn't such a good idea now.

True, indeed it was amended by the Scotland Act of 2016 to make that section not apply to Scottish franchises, but given the current political situation, I very much doubt that we will see those clauses removed or amended any time soon.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Acts can always be changed...
It may have seemed a good idea in 1993, but near on 30 years later, perhaps it isn't such a good idea now.

If the Railways Act 1993 actually mentions the GLA and TfL by name, then it will already have been amended as neither existed until 1999.