Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[MikeWM]

One thing I will say, I do get a small sense that in the last couple of months GTR seem to be *trying* to improve. In particular their comms has improved a bit, although they still seem to have a habit of publically blaming others when things go wrong, sometimes fairly but not always. Since Christmas performance has improved, and at least when cancellations do occur they to tend to be planned and communicated out a bit better now, so that at least one can reliably check before leaving home/work.

Weekday services seem to have significantly improved in the last three months or so, in my experience. I'm no longer avoiding planning around going for a GN train if there isn't a sensible alternative available (eg. late at night). My usual morning commute on the 0948 Ely -> Cambridge, about which I complained a great deal upthread last year, has been fairly reliable since about October/November.

However, their Saturday service remains lamentable. Until we get back to a proper timetable, I have no idea why they can't run 12-cars all day on the Cambridge fasts, given they're currently running a service that is inferior to what we had 20 years ago (!).

Equally, the Sunday service is poor in many respects, particularly north of Cambridge, though in that case it wasn't even planned to be improved in May 2018 (about which I complained quite a bit at the time - before lots of other things went badly wrong...)

Service recovery remains very poor too - was caught up in the power failure near Royston the Sunday evening before last, and it seems that even after the line reopened they only managed to run one train that connected into anything going north of Cambridge (goodness only knows how busy that was, as the first train in over 2 hours) - as opposed to the 5 services that should have run. They still don't seem to care about running last trains when anything goes wrong - for all their faults, in my experience FCC were quite fastidious about that. (I still don't trust them at all when there is disruption - bearing in mind the disaster at Letchworth before Christmas - and so on this occasion I went with GA instead once I knew what was going on, even though a large part of it was bus-stituted and it took ages and ages. Tedious, but I got home without needing to be taxi'ed).

 

[arb]

Do they pay for postage as well, maybe worth doing that if it costs them more.

It's a freepost address

 

[Bikeman78]

I don’t think it will be possible to go back to all stations unless something else gives, for example running the 2Cxx services on the fast lines between Finsbury and Potters Bar. The current pattern gives some breathing space such that it’s not currently the end of the world if the Cambridge service gets stuck behind 313s between London and Welwyn. This will all become much more of an issue when the Cambridge services run to/from the core.

Sorting out the peak-time oddities is more of an issue, and no doubt that will happen in due course once the 313s are gone.

In any case does Brookmans Park *really* need 4tph? Apart from the preserve the vanity of a politician?!

I went for a trundle on some 313s yesterday. Off peak they were waiting time at almost every stop, arriving 45-75 seconds before departure time. It would be possible to tighten up the timings slightly although that would remove any recovery time. The service held together quite well although there were some cancellations. At 16:00 there were two sets of 313s stabled at Hertford North. RTT suggests the cancellations were crew related rather than unit faults. The 17:37 Hertford-Moorgate is worth a ride. Only stops at Cuffley, Gordon Hill, Alexandra Palace, then all stations.

 

[Failed Unit]

Interested in some logic today.

0648 Cambridge North - London cancelled today because of yet another 700 failure.

0714 Baldock - London - Kings Cross stopped additionally at WGC to help the many people travelling from the north.

Credit to GTR for doing this but why the 0714 as most people only arrive 5 mins before departure.

As I said. Nice to see GTR actually thinking about their users for once, but not sure why the 0738 Royston service didn’t fill the gap? Any ideas?

 

[bramling]

Interested in some logic today.

0648 Cambridge North - London cancelled today because of yet another 700 failure.

0714 Baldock - London - Kings Cross stopped additionally at WGC to help the many people travelling from the north.

Credit to GTR for doing this but why the 0714 as most people only arrive 5 mins before departure.

As I said. Nice to see GTR actually thinking about their users for once, but not sure why the 0738 Royston service didn’t fill the gap? Any ideas?

Too busy? Never used that service but I would imagine it picks up massive numbers pretty much from the start, especially being from Royston.

 

[jon0844]

There was an operational incident this morning at Knebworth. From what I read on Facebook, a passenger from that station notes the train passed the platform and had to reverse back to release the doors. (It should be noted that there is no signal at the end of the platform, so overrunning would not have caused a SPAD, but it obviously still caused a delay and I assume a check that the driver/train was able to continue - which it later did).

Trains were also being cautioned due to heavy fog near Welwyn Garden City.

The 700 concerned failed a brake test btw.

 

[Failed Unit]

Too busy? Never used that service but I would imagine it picks up massive numbers pretty much from the start, especially being from Royston.

Probably right. They are stopping that one additionally today as the 0627 Cambridge- London is gone.

Very back keep this week with the lack of drivers at the beginning of the week, failures of trains (both 700s and 313s) and the overhead line problems (which is still causing problems this morning because of displaced trains.)

Some stuff they have done well. Others I don’t understand.

Example 2. 1721 London - Cambridge on Wednesday. Displayed “delayed” at Finsbury Park until 1730 when it started at Potters Bar (late). Surely they knew this would be cancelled before 1730? I guess the stock was nowhere near kings cross. How did it get to Potters Bar?

 

[Bikeman78]

Example 2. 1721 London - Cambridge on Wednesday. Displayed “delayed” at Finsbury Park until 1730 when it started at Potters Bar (late). Surely they knew this would be cancelled before 1730? I guess the stock was nowhere near kings cross. How did it get to Potters Bar?

Presumably straight off Hornsey via the flyover then onto the down slow at Alexandra Palace.

 

[dk1]

I thought GTR came over extremely well on The One Show tonight. Some good intelligent behind the scenes stuff & good to meet the MD who came across well too. Shame Matt Baker made the idiotic "why don't they just put more carriages on" comment at the end. I thought better of him to be honest but suppose he's a country boy at heart.

 

[ComUtoR]

The 700 concerned failed a brake test btw.

Why was it in service ?

 

[neilm]

I thought GTR came over extremely well on The One Show tonight. Some good intelligent behind the scenes stuff & good to meet the MD who came across well too. Shame Matt Baker made the idiotic "why don't they just put more carriages on" comment at the end. I thought better of him to be honest but suppose he's a country boy at heart.

Interesting, looks like the women's video is of the recently reduced from 12 to 8 car 7:59 from Brighton.

Maybe something will be done about it now?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Interesting, looks like the women's video is of the recently reduced from 12 to 8 car 7:59 from Brighton.

Maybe something will be done about it now?

I thought it was a train in the afternoon they were on?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Why was it in service ?

Probably the brake test was carried out after the overrun, so wasn't known about before ?

 

[ComUtoR]

Probably the brake test was carried out after the overrun, so wasn't known about before ?

There isn't any reason to carry out a brake test after an overrun. Then there is the comment regarding that the train continued in service. If it failed before then it should have been removed from service, if it failed after then it shouldn't have entered service. I'm intrigued as to which brake test it failed and if before/or after. 700s are weird at the best of times.

 

[Billy A]

There isn't any reason to carry out a brake test after an overrun. Then there is the comment regarding that the train continued in service. If it failed before then it should have been removed from service, if it failed after then it shouldn't have entered service. I'm intrigued as to which brake test it failed and if before/or after. 700s are weird at the best of times.

Should that not be the other way round? If it failed before it should not have been in service and if it failed after it should have been withdrawn?

 

[jon0844]

The train with the brake test wasn't the one that overran at Welwyn North! And the incident was repeated this week too - same station/platform - according to Facebook.

 

[jon0844]

Why was it in service ?

Different train. That was a reply to Failed Unit about multiple incidents that morning.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers Jon. Seems like failing brake tests are Flavor of the month.

 

[MML]

Interesting, looks like the women's video is of the recently reduced from 12 to 8 car 7:59 from Brighton.

Maybe something will be done about it now?

If they used some of the DfT imposed penalty to increase the length of half a dozen 700/0 8-car units and turn them into 700/1 12-car units, it should be sufficient to make all Brighton-Bedford services FLU and thereby avoid the greatest overcrowding.
Then embark on a programme to:
1. Adjust some seats to give extra inch of legroom.
2. Adjust seats an inch further away from window to give better clearance from floor ducting.
3. Ensure all trains have reliable wifi
4. Install seat back tables on all airline seats.

And customer satisfaction would improve no end.

I travel on the line daily. To be honest, I'm quite impressed by the overall punctuality. It's just when there is an occasional incident that it all turns to worms and by it's very nature the delays and cancellations permeate across the entire network. The latest a signalling fault south of East Croydon led to late arrival of driver northbound required to take a southbound service from Blackfriars. We were stuck behind the train in the core for 20 minutes awaiting the driver for the train blocking the platform at Blackfriars. I'm still amazed they plan driver changes at Blackfriars and London Bridge given the potential for blocking route critical through platforms.

 

[JonathanH]

If they used some of the DfT imposed penalty to increase the length of half a dozen 700/0 8-car units and turn them into 700/1 12-car units, it should be sufficient to make all Brighton-Bedford services FLU and thereby avoid the greatest overcrowding.

You would also need to spend some money on stabling facilities at Bedford - the 8-cars are all linked to workings which stable at the 8-car Bedford Carriage Sidings.

 

[387star]

I thought GTR came over extremely well on The One Show tonight. Some good intelligent behind the scenes stuff & good to meet the MD who came across well too. Shame Matt Baker made the idiotic "why don't they just put more carriages on" comment at the end. I thought better of him to be honest but suppose he's a country boy at heart.

Cough splitter but did a couple of passengers praise the new trains with one saying how comfortable the (standard) seats were?

 

[bramling]

You would also need to spend some money on stabling facilities at Bedford - the 8-cars are all linked to workings which stable at the 8-car Bedford Carriage Sidings.

Indeed - the stabling arrangements at Bedford are messy at best. 8-cars working to Bedford from Luton to stable whilst 12-cars working empty Bedford to Cricklewood to stable. None of which is good for resilience.

At least on the GN side the stabling is more sensible, barring the shortage of stabling space at Cambridge (which is seemingly being worked on). There’s a certain amount of empty working from the country end from and to Hornsey, but at least this is for actual maintenance as opposed to simply stabling.

How many years to prepare again?

 

[dk1]

Cough splitter but did a couple of passengers praise the new trains with one saying how comfortable the (standard) seats were?

That they did.

 

[jon0844]

The complaints about the seats seem to have died down considerably, just as they did on the TL side some time before GN users were introduced to them.

Perhaps everyone's back has now adjusted, or they've softened up. Or people realised a seat was less of an issue than a delayed or cancelled train.

 

[samuelmorris]

The complaints about the seats seem to have died down considerably, just as they did on the TL side some time before GN users were introduced to them.

Perhaps everyone's back has now adjusted, or they've softened up. Or people realised a seat was less of an issue than a delayed or cancelled train.

Or people have realised how much worse seats can get and by comparison 700s don't seem so bad!
I generally don't find the 700 seats problematic for the journey lengths I use them for, despite the fact I admit they're still bad. On the other hand, I do get a little back pain every time I ride a 345 and I do consider the 800 seats inadequate.

Nobody thinks an uncomfortable seat is a bigger issue than major disruption, but if using a higher frequency service, it is actually more of an impact on comfort sometimes. Further, nothing about why the 700 seats are poorly reviewed has any impact on punctuality, so I think that argument is largely irrelevant, unless of course the point is 'punctuality is so bad on GTR nobody cares about the seats' which I'm sure is probably true.

 

[jon0844]

The worst seat I've sat on is standard class on a Eurostar 374. As in it actually made my back hurt. Nothing else comes close to causing actual pain. For me, anyway.

 

[dk1]

Perhaps everyone's back has now adjusted, or they've softened up. Or people realised a seat was less of an issue than a delayed or cancelled train.

Or the penny has finally dropped that nobody is listening to their constant whining about something so trivial.

 

[commutersaysno]

Or people have realised how much worse seats can get and by comparison 700s don't seem so bad!
I generally don't find the 700 seats problematic for the journey lengths I use them for, despite the fact I admit they're still bad. On the other hand, I do get a little back pain every time I ride a 345 and I do consider the 800 seats inadequate.

Nobody thinks an uncomfortable seat is a bigger issue than major disruption, but if using a higher frequency service, it is actually more of an impact on comfort sometimes. Further, nothing about why the 700 seats are poorly reviewed has any impact on punctuality, so I think that argument is largely irrelevant, unless of course the point is 'punctuality is so bad on GTR nobody cares about the seats' which I'm sure is probably true.

Please allow me to introduce myself - I was a daily Thameslink commuter and annual season ticket holder until late last year. I now use carnets and try to work from home when I can.

I can't speak about seats on other trains, but I find the 700 seats appallingly uncomfortable: I physically can't fit into the airline seats, and even the bay seats give me backache within a few minutes. There seems to be no lumbar support at all, which cannot be healthy. I have completely given up on them and now always stand instead. That's fine for 30 minutes, but if I have to get a slow train it gets tiresome, and occasional weekend trips through London down to Mid Sussex or Brighton are now distinctly unappealing.

It is of course correct to say that punctuality is more important, and this seems to have largely recovered from last year's farce, barring disruption, and at the cost of significantly reduced frequency to my station during weekday peaks (dramatically reduced on Saturdays, which again I have given up on - we now drive into London if necessary).

I don't have any rail industry insight to offer, so I don't propose to get into any debates on this forum about the whys and wherefores: my personal experience is simply that this line has been transformed for the worse by 2018's changes.

Back to lurking!

 

[ijmad]

The complaints about the seats seem to have died down considerably, just as they did on the TL side some time before GN users were introduced to them.

Perhaps everyone's back has now adjusted, or they've softened up. Or people realised a seat was less of an issue than a delayed or cancelled train.

We're a rare breed, I admit, but there are those of us out there who actually prefer a harder seat and find the 700s seats more comfortable than the (way too cushiony) 319s...

 

[dk1]

We're a rare breed, I admit, but there are those of us out there who actually prefer a harder seat and find the 700s seats more comfortable than the (way too cushiony) 319s...

I'm with you on that one. In the same way I'd never dream of sitting on a sofa in a pub or coffee shop.