Theresa May calls General Election on 8th June.

[HSTEd]

I have an easy way to raise huge sums for the public purpose without hitting the worst off in society and it also simplifies the tax system drastically.

Fold National Insurance into income tax.

But since we live in a geriatocracy that is never going to happen.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Not just housing; many things are more expensive in the London area. A 70k salary on its own does *not* provide a gold-plated standard of living here. Being a London MP, Corbin should be very well aware of this reality.

Likewise, if Corbyn really supports the young generation, a policy of taking away potential disposable income will not help young people pay the mortgage to secure property on a par with their parents, for example.

Yes, of course, I realise that it's not just housing, but that surely is the largest chunk of someone's income. I have no idea how young people can afford a mortgage these days, my children certainly cannot (and they are not spendthrifts)

 

[pemma]

38 Labour MP's chose not to stand in the 2015 election, currently I think that 11 have stood down for the forthcoming election. So if 11 is 'masses' - what is 38?

A General Election was only confirmed 24 hours ago and 11 have already said they won't be standing, I imagine some haven't decided yet. Also worth remembering it's only 2 years since the last election not 5. Pat Glass said she would retire at the next election but given the next election has been called early she could stand this time and still retire at state retirement age, if the next election had been in 2020 she would have had to continue working beyond state retirement age or stood down mid-term.

 

[Howardh]

Interesting to note that the pledge not to raise taxes (income/NI/VAT) has been removed from their manifesto.

When we are out of the EU and aren't bound by the EU's "tyranical" VAT rules, it will be heartwarming to see everyone's delight when they are raised to 22.5% or higher.

 

[DarloRich]

I think the Labour membership need to wake up and smell the coffee quickly. Corbyn may well be the ideal leader of the Labour Party for the party faithful but is it not abundantly clear he is not appealing to the wider electorate? Labour won a huge victories under Tony Blair and that lead to years and years of Labour Government. Yet Blairites are seemingly despised by the Labour Party faithful. Well to me that says that Labour are pretty much a left wing extremist fringe party. If that is what the party faithful wish to to be than so be it, but expect a bit of humiliation at the ballot box. If I am wrong and Corbyn and Labour storm to victory or don't lose vast swaithes of seats I will happily admit I was wrong but I don't think I will. Just as I believe the Tories have pandered to the extreme right wing in their party, I believe Labour have learched badly to the left as well.

it isnt a lurching. It is a take over by SWP types - they are the embodiment of entryism and have no interest in winning elections

 

[WelshBluebird]

It is a take over by SWP types

A person who has been a Labour Party MP for over 30 years (and a member for presumably longer), nominated for the leadership by other Labour MP's, who won two leadership elections based on the votes of Labour Party members (and would have won both without the registered supporters - who are usually the people who get labelled as SWP etc). Seems very Labour to me!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A General Election was only confirmed 24 hours ago and 11 have already said they won't be standing, I imagine some haven't decided yet.

Probably nothing very significant in that. Parties need to get their candidates selected very quickly, and for that reason I'd imagine most parties are going to impose very tight deadlines on their MPs to let them know if they wish to stand again, so that they can quickly start selecting replacement candidates for those MPs who don't want to continue. I understand for Labour MPs, that deadline is in fact today - so it's hardly surprising if those MPs who don't want to stand again are making that known very quickly.

 

[HSTEd]

Theresa May will apparently not be promising the continuation of the triple lock.

She must think her position is entirely unassailable.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

A person who has been a Labour Party MP for over 30 years (and a member for presumably longer), nominated for the leadership by other Labour MP's, who won two leadership elections based on the votes of Labour Party members (and would have won both without the registered supporters - who are usually the people who get labelled as SWP etc). Seems very Labour to me!

I'm afraid that DarloRich is going to disagree with you most vehemently!

 

[pemma]

Douglas Carswell, Conservative's Gerald Howarth and Labour's Dave Anderson have this afternoon announced they won't seek re-election.

Former MPs Vince Cable, Simon Hughes and Ed Davey have announced they plan to stand.

Corbyn has said under Labour there will be no referendum on the final Brexit deal, which the Greens have moved to criticise.

 

[DarloRich]

A person who has been a Labour Party MP for over 30 years (and a member for presumably longer), nominated for the leadership by other Labour MP's, who won two leadership elections based on the votes of Labour Party members (and would have won both without the registered supporters - who are usually the people who get labelled as SWP etc). Seems very Labour to me!

not a Labour party serious about power!

I'm afraid that DarloRich is going to disagree with you most vehemently!

I do: because without a credible leader we have no chance of power. The supporters of Corncob own and are responsible for whatever comes next. By saddling us with a joke of a leader they ensure the Tories keep power and have a free hand to do as they please to the institutions we all rely on. That this point doesn't seem to register drives me bananas! FFS we didn't even vote in an old school left wing firebrand - we voted in a timid geography teacher.

 

[Domh245]

Not just housing; many things are more expensive in the London area. A 70k salary on its own does *not* provide a gold-plated standard of living here. Being a London MP, Corbin should be very well aware of this reality.

Likewise, if Corbyn really supports the young generation, a policy of taking away potential disposable income will not help young people pay the mortgage to secure property on a par with their parents, for example.

Alternatively, it could signal a move by Labour that they are intending to focus on seats outside of London (where they are expected to hang on by merit of them being very safe seats, or have accepted that they'll loose some) where 70k is high and taxing it would have support.

 

[WelshBluebird]

not a Labour party serious about power!

That wasn't the point I was replying to though!

Based on the fact a long term Labour member and MP was voted to be leader by the Labour membership after being nominated for it by Labour MP's (and would have won both leadership elections even without the registered supporters), I really am not sure how you can claim a SWP take over!

 

[pemma]

Greens have asked Labour not to put a candidate forward for Totnes in exchange for them not putting a candidate forward for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport.

 

[DarloRich]

That wasn't the point I was replying to though!

Based on the fact a long term Labour member and MP was voted to be leader by the Labour membership after being nominated for it by Labour MP's (and would have won both leadership elections even without the registered supporters), I really am not sure how you can claim a SWP take over!

go to your local party meetings................

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

go to your local party meetings................

There is no-one remotely like one of your 'SWP types' in my local branch.

 

[EM2]

because without a credible leader we have no chance of power.

Why is he not credible?

 

[507021]

You seemed to be implying the Labour MPs should stand down if they don't like Corbyn though. As long as they support the Labour manifesto I don't see why that should be the case. However, it's certainly would be unusual if Labour win and then Corbyn has to stand down for parliament to approve the Labour party forming a government.

I'm sorry, but what is the actual point of supporting the party's manifesto and policies but not the leader?

Surely the current Labour MPs and party members who don't like Jeremy Corbyn are more than capable of putting their personal opinions of him aside and doing what they should be doing, uniting as a party to win this election, instead of plotting against their party's leader.

 

[pemma]

Seb Corbyn is set to be parachuted in to Labour safe seat Liverpool Walton but Joe Anderson is going to challenge him to be Labour candidate for the seat.

 

[pemma]

I'm sorry, but what is the actual point of supporting the party's manifesto and policies but not the leader?

Surely the current Labour MPs and party members who don't like Jeremy Corbyn are more than capable of putting their personal opinions of him aside and doing what they should be doing, uniting as a party to win this election, instead of plotting against their party's leader.

They obviously think telling their constituents that Corbyn may not be PM even if Labour win will win them seats/prevent them losing seats.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm sorry, but what is the actual point of supporting the party's manifesto and policies but not the leader?

Surely the current Labour MPs and party members who don't like Jeremy Corbyn are more than capable of putting their personal opinions of him aside and doing what they should be doing, uniting as a party to win this election, instead of plotting against their party's leader.

If the party was led by a glass of water wearing a donkey jacket would it make sense to support the leader even if the manifesto was great?

By your logic it doesn't matter who the leader is as long as the policies are right. If you haven't got the right people to lead, you won't get votes.

I enjoy watching Corbynites paddle furiously towards, and then sail over the waterfall in their raft, singing The Red Flag. Give us a wave and a cheery smile as you go over! Wheeeee!

 

[ivanhoe]

I'm sorry, but what is the actual point of supporting the party's manifesto and policies but not the leader?

Surely the current Labour MPs and party members who don't like Jeremy Corbyn are more than capable of putting their personal opinions of him aside and doing what they should be doing, uniting as a party to win this election, instead of plotting against their party's leader.

Totally agree mate. If you won't back the Leader in a general election, stand down and leave the Party.

 

[backontrack]

The Carswell/Banks fiasco in Clacton-on-Sea is interesting. Arron Banks has been parachuted into Clacton, a town which he admits he knows 'nothing at all' about, and has decided to stand there. His sole objective: to beat Douglas Carswell, who he recently referred to as 'dysfunctional old wonky jaw'.

Now, people in Clacton were/are sceptical about Banks. Carswell is much more popular there. So it seems he would have beaten Banks quite easily. But today, Carswell (currently Independent) declared that he was standing down as an MP and throwing his support behind the Tory candidate (whoever that will be). This withdraws Banks' only real reason for running, but he'll pretty much have to stay anyway. He'll probably get hammered by the Tories and maybe the Greens will beat him too, which is just as well. I hope he does do that badly.

 

[Bromley boy]

The same ones who have a union saying they want a Corbyn lead government who will re-nationalise the railways? Then their pay will increase at the same rate as all other public sectors workers - no chance of them then getting above inflation pay rises when other public sectors get below inflation pay rises.

I can assure you there is a enormous, yawning gulf, several miles wide, between what the political/leadership arms of unions say and the views of the grass-roots membership!

 

[Bromley boy]

Totally agree mate. If you won't back the Leader in a general election, stand down and leave the Party.

Why should they? Many of those MPs are people who have built their political careers serving the Labour movement. Surely you must agree that a political party which goes back generations is far bigger than its current leader?

The tone of your post smacks more of a dictatorial cult than a political party. There is a risk that is the direction Labour is now heading.

 

[backontrack]

Why is he not credible?

How is he credible?

 

[Lankyline]

FFS we didn't even vote in an old school left wing firebrand - we voted in a timid geography teacher.

Don't think either one would matter anyway, but if Corbyn has got anything about him now's the time to show it otherwise Labour is going to crash and burn. May has just pulled off one very astute political move.

 

[backontrack]

Don't think either one would matter anyway, but if Corbyn has got anything about him now's the time to show it otherwise Labour is going to crash and burn. May has just pulled off one very astute political move.

But she's committed a big own goal by ruling herself out of debates. The Tories have had a fear of debating ever since they used it against Gordon Brown and it succeeded. This is coming back to bite Theresa May. By not taking part, she's given the rest of her contenders an opportunity to put their ideas and policies across - and while UKIP won't be able to make much of an impact, the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party now have a proper chance to get their ideas across to an audience. Cleggmania happened once, and it could happen again.

Having said that, Corbyn's spin doctors need to do some serious work on him. And Tim Farron needs to...get a spin doctor.

 

[southern442]

But she's committed a big own goal by ruling herself out of debates. The Tories have had a fear of debating ever since they used it against Gordon Brown and it succeeded. This is coming back to bite Theresa May. By not taking part, she's given the rest of her contenders an opportunity to put their ideas and policies across - and while UKIP won't be able to make much of an impact, the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party now have a proper chance to get their ideas across to an audience. Cleggmania happened once, and it could happen again.

Having said that, Corbyn's spin doctors need to do some serious work on him. And Tim Farron needs to...actually have a spin doctor.

I think either way we cannot expect her to do as well as she is doing in the polls at the moment. No doubt her refusal to debate will lose her some votes, but she may lose even more if she decides to take part later on.

Corbyn's speech today seemed rather impressive compared to previous speeches. He needs to keep the energy high. He knows full well that if he doesn't win he's gone forever, so one would hope he goes all-out in the next month.

 

[backontrack]

I think either way we cannot expect her to do as well as she is doing in the polls at the moment.

Maybe not, but that should be no barrier. I'd be much more supportive of a leader who was willing to debate these things, though maybe if I were a party leader I'd be more supportive of her position.

No doubt her refusal to debate will lose her some votes, but she may lose even more if she decides to take part later on.

I doubt she'd have much trouble with Corbyn, though Sturgeon, who is an excellent orator, might run rings around her...