Throughput at gatelines with phone tickets compared to smart cards

[Taunton]

I do recall that when the Underground first introduced Oyster gatelines, a lot of Research & Development had gone into absolutely minimising processing times, as indeed had been a continuing case since magnetic "yellow tickets" first came along in the late 1960s, and which feeds through to how few such gates need to be provided.

This does all seem to have been thrown away with accepting tickets on phones, which seem to have a throughput time less than half of what Oyster and Contactless can manage, which presumably means more gates to achieve the same thing, and in some locations, like the crush in the Euston Underground ticket hall, are impossible to expand. The phones issue seem to be a combination of the actual recognition technology, and, to put it mildly, "clumsiness" by their owners in scrolling to their ticket while standing there.

Are there any throughput figures on this?

 

[stuu]

Do you mean barcodes or using Apple/Android Pay?

For the barcoded tickets, they really should put up massive signs saying "hold your phone still". I see people waving them about all over the place, and then the gates can't read them.

 

[gobbybobby]

At some stations there seems to be a delay between me scanning my ticket in the app and the gates opening, sometimes I think it's not scanned, but it's just bring slow to process or whatever.

But paper tickets are just as bad now that they're just a printed barcode. I got one a bit screwed up in my pocket and had to get someone to let me out on the gateline as the gate couldn't read it.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I've also seen people scan their phones on the arrows that show the direction of flow on the gate!

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought LU weren’t using any optical reading systems yet, for this very reason?

 

[bengley]

In my opinion barcode tickets are more trouble than they're worth and should be withdrawn. They cause massive backlogs at gatelines. I can understand their use case on the train for the guard to scan them, but not at the barriers.

 

[Failed Unit]

I always find it frustrating when people scan them, when the gates are open. I guess we have being conditioned to tap in / out, but you even have the staff stating (Please don’t stop if you have a paper ticket) - but then a barcode isn’t a paper ticket.

They do in my experience slow things down, but so do the paper tickets with the high rejection rates.

The contactless seems to be the best way. It is a shame the smart cards never really took of for anything other than season tickets. I still use KeyGo, quicker for delay repay but no other advantage over a credit card.

 

[Mike395]

Half the problem is the Cubic readers used at the vast majority of gatelines - they often take a good second or two to scan/interpret the Aztec code. If I'm using the ones on the gatelines at e.g. Manchester Victoria (I don't know who makes these) which are much more sensibly placed, they're usually as fast as paper tickets.

 

[cce]

There's also a considerable chunk of delay that's attributable to a significant number of people only pulling up the app when they're right on top of the gate

 

[Bantamzen]

In my opinion barcode tickets are more trouble than they're worth and should be withdrawn. They cause massive backlogs at gatelines. I can understand their use case on the train for the guard to scan them, but not at the barriers.

Half the problem is the Cubic readers used at the vast majority of gatelines - they often take a good second or two to scan/interpret the Aztec code. If I'm using the ones on the gatelines at e.g. Manchester Victoria (I don't know who makes these) which are much more sensibly placed, they're usually as fast as paper tickets.

I've been using barcoded tickets for quite some time now for both commuting and leisure, and the only places I've had problems have been at Bradford Interchange, where Baildon-Warrington tickets are never recognised and the aforementioned Manchester Victoria thanks to the readers being almost at knee height!!

Otherwise, they always work fine for me, and mean that I can get a ticket quickly and on the go rather than having to trudge to a TVM or queue behind that person taking a multi-stop journey and splitting tickets whilst asking about connection times and what type of traction will be in use...

But seriously, so long as the readers are in sensible positions, regular users seem to have to issue with them. I always see people arriving at Leeds having their phone in hand, barcode displayed as they get off the trains, and it takes no longer than a paper ticket.

 

[YorksLad12]

For the barcoded tickets, they really should put up massive signs saying "hold your phone still". I see people waving them about all over the place and then the gates can't read them.

I'd prefer a sign that says "Don't stand here if you haven't got your ticket to hand, you bollard." Fair winds me up, it does (usually the same people who try and push their luggage through, even though the gate says "no luggage" on it).

I've noticed a few problems at Leeds with barcodes not scanning (for me), which I put down to the state of the glass on the reader. Some of them look scratched, which must affect the reading. I prefer using a smartcard (won't break if I drop it), but then they're difficult for the on-train team to read. One will inevitably tell me my ticket has expired, and I have to explain what a flexi season is...

I think the convenience of purchasing has not been matched by convenience in reading - I'd be interested in any research done on this too.

 

[renegademaster]

In the London contactless card payment area it shouldnt be too hard to get e tickets working with mobile NFC, though this can be a pain of its own

 

[RailAleFan]

The trainline app "Loading your bookings" takes way too long to load now. I joked about it with a LM train manager recently, he joked in reply that he now spends half his shift waiting for the trainline app to show tickets!

 

[birchesgreen]

I find it fast and convenient, i think you do need to develop the skill a bit though, just like supermarket self-scan checkouts.

 

[jon0844]

The code readers with what I assume is a laser don't work anywhere near as fast/reliably as the ones with the white light and a camera. The latter seems able to cope with people not holding their phone/ticket still too.

Some gatelines appear to have a mix, presumably as many stations started off with only one reader and when the rest were added they were of a newer design.

The same applies for self-scan checkouts. Some older ones really struggle with phone screens.

 

[Energy]

The code readers with what I assume is a laser don't work anywhere near as fast/reliably as the ones with the white light and a camera. The latter seems able to cope with people not holding their phone/ticket still too.

Some gatelines appear to have a mix, presumably as many stations started off with only one reader and when the rest were added they were of a newer design.

The same applies for self-scan checkouts. Some older ones really struggle with phone screens.

Surprising, cameras and image recognition tend to be far more fiddly then proper laser scanners.

 

[Failed Unit]

The code readers with what I assume is a laser don't work anywhere near as fast/reliably as the ones with the white light and a camera. The latter seems able to cope with people not holding their phone/ticket still too.

Some gatelines appear to have a mix, presumably as many stations started off with only one reader and when the rest were added they were of a newer design.

The same applies for self-scan checkouts. Some older ones really struggle with phone screens.

I suspect some of the scratch covers on the phone don’t help either, at a leisure centre I need to have mine at full brightness to get it to read the barcode. Not had any problem at the station with it. However at Welwyn Garden City the RPIs do seem to prefer you to show it to them and then they open the gate manually.

 

[Mikw]

I don't have a problem with the barcode scanners - as long as my screen brightness is on maximum

 

[LowLevel]

In my opinion barcode tickets are more trouble than they're worth and should be withdrawn. They cause massive backlogs at gatelines. I can understand their use case on the train for the guard to scan them, but not at the barriers.

We hate them on board too.

"You'll just have to bear with me..."

"I'm useless at this"

"How do I find my ticket?"

"I've run out of data, can I use your hotspot to access my emails?"

"You'll have to come back to me"

"I've got tickets for 9 people on this email, stand there whilst I download each one individually click "Adobe Acrobat" "Just Once" for each one"

"My battery is on 3% and I haven't brought a charging lead, how am I going to get out of the other end in 2 hours time?"

"My grandson booked it for me and I can't get into his account because I don't know the password'

"I printed my ticket on a printer from 1997 with the resolution of a Game Boy, what do you mean it won't scan? Of course I don't have a smart phone as back up"

And a special mention to Trip.com and other rubbish derivatives that should never have passed accreditation - I can't show you my ticket at the moment, it needs a data connection and we're in Totley Tunnel - that app is particularly beloved of visiting foreign students.

When I started as a guard there was no such thing as e-tickets. I could check a train in half the time with bits of card without having to be tech support for something I have no training on whatsoever (IE how to operate the various apps) or to choose between trying to remember to call back to 15 different people scattered around the train or standing there for 5 minutes at a time waiting for them to get their act together and produce their ticket.

At least with a paper ticket they only have to work out whether the ticket is in their wallet, pocket, bra or sock.

 

[jon0844]

Surprising, cameras and image recognition tend to be far more fiddly then proper laser scanners.

Really? Cameras are extremely good these days and can adjust easily for screens with different brightness levels - and the majority of e-tickets are on a phone, not paper.

Most supermarkets are now using camera based scanners at self checkouts (they may well still use lasers for staffed checkouts?) because of the issue with scanning screens.

 

[Energy]

Really? Cameras are extremely good these days and can adjust easily for screens with different brightness levels - and the majority of e-tickets are on a phone, not paper.

Most supermarkets are now using camera based scanners at self checkouts (they may well still use lasers for staffed checkouts?) because of the issue with scanning screens.

Looks like the supermarket ones have a few cameras to deal with angles.

The camera-based ones depend on what software is behind them, when it's good the scanners tend to be good when it's bad (typically phone apps) then they can be fiddly. Laser ones are consistently OK.

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't have a problem with the barcode scanners - as long as my screen brightness is on maximum

I use a combination of Northern's app & Google Wallet, both set the screen brightness to maximum when in focus on the phone. Its a handy feature that makes them a breeze to use.

 

[infobleep]

I haven't had too many issues with e-tickets but when passport scanning first came in I did struggle with the gates.

Also, I have no issues with supermarkets reading my phone usually but the new self-service checkouts in the Guildford Waitrose struggle to read my phone screen, whereas this isn't the case in other Waitrose branches.

So going back to ticket gates, I suspect sometimes it's down the individual gate issues.

 

[johntea]

I just noticed a slight issue with the LNER app and the barriers at Kings Cross

My phone is a iPhone Pro Max so has a rather large screen, but the code is displayed in the middle of the screen rather than the top and the barrier scanner can only ‘fit’ the top of my screen!

 

[Class800]

The trainline app "Loading your bookings" takes way too long to load now. I joked about it with a LM train manager recently, he joked in reply that he now spends half his shift waiting for the trainline app to show tickets!

At least he's got good patience, as technically if you can't show the ticket on request it could be a penalty fare. The guard needn't wait. Yet I do prefer common sense

 

[AlastairFraser]

Do you mean barcodes or using Apple/Android Pay?

For the barcoded tickets, they really should put up massive signs saying "hold your phone still". I see people waving them about all over the place, and then the gates can't read them.

It would be nice if they found a way to write e tickets using NFC to ITSO-based smartcards. That would make gate processing a lot faster.

 

[YorksLad12]

I just noticed a slight issue with the LNER app and the barriers at Kings Cross

My phone is a iPhone Pro Max so has a rather large screen, but the code is displayed in the middle of the screen rather than the top and the barrier scanner can only ‘fit’ the top of my screen!

Can't you turn it round 90 degrees? I didn't think the barcode had to be 'right' way up.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

It would be nice if they found a way to write e tickets using NFC to ITSO-based smartcards. That would make gate processing a lot faster.

I've done something similar to that before by tapping the smartcard against my phone. Found it very useful and a lot better than fumbling around with a barcode.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I've done something similar to that before by tapping the smartcard against my phone. Found it very useful and a lot better than fumbling around with a barcode.

Northern, WY Metro and many other transport operators do it with day or other period tickets (e.g. with Northern, you can load seasons).
Even if it just acted as a gate pass for a specific station, it would expedite the process of using an e-ticket significantly as you say, and clear queues much quicker.
If they want to check the specific validity of the ticket including Railcards, peak/off peak etc., the guard can check this on the train.

 

[Benjwri]

Regarding the talk of using phone NFC, this already exists. It's called ITSO on mobile, but is only supported on Google Pay, and there has been no progress for a number of years publicly shown. It has existed since 2018, but in my opinion was held back by only being supported by Google. The technology needed is now supported by Apple, so there would be nothing stopping an implementation which should in theory work with any existing ITSO reader with a software update. Sadly the project has been quiet since long before that development.