"Timetable's changing. You can't have one."

[radamfi]

What would be useful (if it doesn't exist already) would be an app. that stores the entire UK timetable database locally on your device (just downloading changes and updates when online) allowing timetable queries to be made when offline. It could also handle either 'journey planner' queries or display times for a route in a tabular form - ie like a traditional booklet.

You can get the whole of Europe as a download on the Rail Planner-Eurail/Interrail app.

However, I just noticed that domestic UK trains seem to be now excluded.

 

[theblackwatch]

That's exactly the kind of thing you can do more easily with smartphones isn't it? I'm not aware of many print timetables thst tell you the nearest pub!

I think you have misunderstood what I was saying, I don't need to know where the pubs are - I want to know the best use of my time by where to visit for a drink. For example, if I am leaving Leeds at 12.09 and want to arrive at Manchester Picc at 14.05, stopping off for a couple of drinks, I can look at this timetable:

and can immediately see various options:

• Time in Dewsbury (12.20-12.47), Huddersfield (12.56-13.30)
• Time in Dewsbury (12.20-12.47), Stalybridge (13.15-13.50)
• Time in Huddersfield (12.30-12.56), Stalybridge (13.15-13.50)

I'm not sure that would be so easy to work out with a smartphone/journey planner.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find myself using RTT for that kind of purpose these days.

 

[Bantamzen]

There's a guy on YouTube that hacks these things apart and judges them, and I think he's actually been quite complimentary to some of the £1 chargers, adapters and LED lights (torches etc).

They'd likely be safer than buying on eBay, but the point is that it's 1250mAh and with the losses you'd get when charging, that's probably not even going to charge many modern phones even once, let alone more. Plus the output will likely be incredibly slow (5V 1A at most).

So for those reasons alone, go onto Amazon and buy something around 5,000mAh and with a decent output (2A) and if you use a reputable brand like Anker, you'll be fine and able to keep your phone topped up with no risk.

I just so happen to be in the market for a power bank! And I've now seen some on Amazon so cheers for the recommendation!

 

[cactustwirly]

You can get the whole of Europe as a download on the Rail Planner-Eurail/Interrail app.

However, I just noticed that domestic UK trains seem to be now excluded.

It had UK domestic services on it very recently

 

[NorthernSpirit]

You know what? I find a printed timetable doesn't require a battery that needs recharging every day, doesn't become unreadable because we're passing through a tunnel or somewhere else without reception and, in the main, has factual information that is reliable, not interspersed with adverts and presented in a logical sequence. It's amazing, really, that more people aren't mugged for their print timetables!

That's the best thing about a paper timetable, it doesn't need to be plugged into the mains every night. This shift of "everything is online", yes but half of the timetables aren't printer friendly and some are spread out over 10 pages when in reality it only covers four.

I do hope that Northern are going to print a single timetable book as per SWT did and GWR do, so that those who don't want to use digital products can still keep with the paper stuff.

 

[aye2beeviasea]

Talking of Northern, here's the paper timetable that thoroughly confused my mum when she tried to double check the 8:49 from Heald Green to Piccadilly on a recent Monday.

https://be803fe5c416e39d38ae-aa2108...les/Northern-18-Manchester-to-Crewe-1017-.pdf

If you want a train timetable that doesn't tell you the times of your trains, paper's definitely the way to go.

 

[theironroad]

Talking of Northern, here's the paper timetable that thoroughly confused my mum when she tried to double check the 8:49 from Heald Green to Piccadilly on a recent Monday.

https://be803fe5c416e39d38ae-aa2108...les/Northern-18-Manchester-to-Crewe-1017-.pdf

If you want a train timetable that doesn't tell you the times of your trains, paper's definitely the way to go.

I'm not local, but can't find the 0849 in that TT you post, but see there is a note on page 2 saying that TT 18 is a summary of certain trains and others are in TT 21.

 

[whhistle]

Probably haven't got around to printing the new ones yet. Anyway these days the answer to everything seems to be "it's all online".

Do you ever wonder how much paper/money/time is wasted by over printing timetables?

Yes, some people may want a printed version but in many walks of life some groups of people's needs are sactificed by the advent of progress.

Railcards are another one that is slowly moving online.

I find paper timetables confusing.
If I pick up a London Midland timetable, I don't want to see Virgin Trains in it... otherwise I'd pick up a Virgin timetable.

1. I don't have to switch it on, enter a code, dodge that thing that comes on and asks me what I want, go on to google, enter what I want and wait for it to load. I just pick up the piece of paper.
2. My battery was low and I wanted to save it for more important functions.
3. I don't know about web access but phone access at Preston station is (I was later to discover) patchy.
4. I can move from Up to Down timetables virtually instantly with paper.
5. If I drop the paper it doesn't break.

1: My phone takes less than 1 second to "wake". It was part of the marketing for it.
2: There are many "battery saving" functions you can use on phones, but having it charged is now a part of life for many. Plus, the next generation of phones are all coming with quick charge. 0% - 50% in 20 mins or so.
3: If you can get 4G signal in Rugby, I suspect you can get it in Preston. I was reading something the other day that says even if you have full signal, the quality of the line might not be great.
4: Or you can just use an online journey planner to do the same.
5: I've dropped my phone a few times, still working, no cracked screen. There are far more phones that aren't dropped than those that are.
I understand where you're coming from though. However the fact is, paper anything is on the way out. Certain things are taking longer than others but be it timetables, railcards, tickets... this is what the digital revolution is all about.

Banking is another good one.
If you don't have a bank account, you can't get paid.
Yet I still know people who use cash for everything, but they're unable to justify why they create such hassle for themselves by doing so.

It's like the people who "don't do contactless" <-- nobody has given me a good reason why they don't use it but would rather struggle to insert their card, mess about typing in a pin, wait, then pull their card out. And for some people, the last task is often forgotten.
WIth contactless, your card never leaves your hand, so in that sense it's better/more secure.

 

[TrainfanBen]

The OP said it was weird.
Did he ask the staff if they had one available behind the counter? It should have been offered.

Nonetheless, to me, paper timetables are for the fun adventures; those days out by train. Any other time I wouldn't ordinarily bother.
For most journey's, I usually know which time journey I'm aiming for and plan accordingly or otherwise turn up and accept the wait.

I don't think society should force people to use technology (at least in their private life), it really should sit alongside pen and paper and similar.
There are times when technology doesn't work, and having other means is useful.

And on the topic of mobile phone possession; I have found occasions where I've not had a mobile phone on me, to be quite liberating, if for no other reason than prompting me to actually converse with people.

 

[infobleep]

How does one find out if a train has first class without resorting to looking at a printed timetable or PDF?

Currently I download the PDfs on my phone and look at them but it's really awkward to do that.

Looking at the train isn't good enough as trains without first class do have first class carriages.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I disagree completely. If I pick up a Virgin or London Midland timetable, I want to see ALL the trains between the stations I want to travel between.

Virgin's timetables are particularly poor. An obvious example is their timetable for the service between London and Chester which does not show connections at Crewe on to ATW services. These connections are particularly important at times when VT are not running through services. ATW's timetables do show connections and so are much more useful.

 

[al78]

It's like the people who "don't do contactless" <-- nobody has given me a good reason why they don't use it but would rather struggle to insert their card, mess about typing in a pin, wait, then pull their card out. And for some people, the last task is often forgotten.

I didn't have a contactless card until my debit card expired and I got a new one earlier this month. I haven't tried out the contactless facility yet.

Inserting a card and typing in a pin takes less than five seconds for me. I don't know why others struggle and mess around unless they have arthritic fingers.

 

[6Gman]

1: My phone takes less than 1 second to "wake". It was part of the marketing for it.
2: There are many "battery saving" functions you can use on phones, but having it charged is now a part of life for many. Plus, the next generation of phones are all coming with quick charge. 0% - 50% in 20 mins or so.
3: If you can get 4G signal in Rugby, I suspect you can get it in Preston. I was reading something the other day that says even if you have full signal, the quality of the line might not be great.
4: Or you can just use an online journey planner to do the same.
5: I've dropped my phone a few times, still working, no cracked screen. There are far more phones that aren't dropped than those that are.
I understand where you're coming from though. However the fact is, paper anything is on the way out. Certain things are taking longer than others but be it timetables, railcards, tickets... this is what the digital revolution is all about.

1. Congratulations. But I don't own your phone, I own mine. And it takes a lot longer than a second to get it to a point where I can check trains from Preston to Blackburn (and/or Accrington) and return. And a lot longer than reading a paper timetable!
2. Perhaps there are. Doesn't alter the fact that my battery level was middling, and I wanted to use it later.
3. Not sure that being able to receive something in Rugby means you're likely to get it in Preston! I do know that attempts to make a phonecall were not successful.
4. If I can't get internet access how do I use an online planner? And it still takes longer than a paper timetable.
5. Paper may be "on the way out". But it's not gone yet, and my original point stands. If paper timetables are still being produced why aren't they available to a customer? And why were VTWC, TPE and XC (which - AFAIK - doesn't even serve Preston) available, but Northern wasn't?

If you're happier with electronics that's fine - I'm not going to stop you. But leave me with my paper option ...

 

[6Gman]

The OP said it was weird.
Did he ask the staff if they had one available behind the counter? It should have been offered.

I did ask.

They didn't have any.

They had been "put away".

 

[route101]

Prefer paper timetables . Have downloaded PDFs to phone but always forget i have and pick up paper timetable . TPE timetable for Edinburgh and Glasgow services is useful as it shows VT trains too .When your in a rush on the station platform i find it quicker with a paper timetable.

 

[jamesst]

I disagree completely. If I pick up a Virgin or London Midland timetable, I want to see ALL the trains between the stations I want to travel between.

Virgin's timetables are particularly poor. An obvious example is their timetable for the service between London and Chester which does not show connections at Crewe on to ATW services. These connections are particularly important at times when VT are not running through services. ATW's timetables do show connections and so are much more useful.

Surely therein lies the problem, what is perfectly adequate to one person isn't to the next and so on

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't think society should force people to use technology (at least in their private life), it really should sit alongside pen and paper and similar.

Pen and paper are both technology.

 

[Smethwickian]

I still find paper timetables the easiest and quickest way to gain an overview of service levels, stopping patterns, places to change, etc, but fully appreciate the need to double-check specific journey details for engineering work and late changes, which would most likely be done online.
What bugs me at this time of year is stations which steadfastly refuse to put new timetables on display until the very last minute - even admitting, as staff at Birmingham Snow Hill did yesterday, that they are in boxes in the stock room and they have no intention of opening them yet.
Paper remains part of the advertising and marketing mix for the foreseeable future but it's not much use and therefore most definitely a waste of money if hidden away in a cupboard.

 

[theironroad]

I still find paper timetables the easiest and quickest way to gain an overview of service levels, stopping patterns, places to change, etc, but fully appreciate the need to double-check specific journey details for engineering work and late changes, which would most likely be done online.
What bugs me at this time of year is stations which steadfastly refuse to put new timetables on display until the very last minute - even admitting, as staff at Birmingham Snow Hill did yesterday, that they are in boxes in the stock room and they have no intention of opening them yet.
Paper remains part of the advertising and marketing mix for the foreseeable future but it's not much use and therefore most definitely a waste of money if hidden away in a cupboard.

Most stations don't have enough display racks to duplicate all timetables for a couple of weeks a year. People travelling on the day of the curren timetable would be peeved if all they could find were future copies.

I'd be very surprised if someone asked a clerk for a new one, and they had them in stock, and were refused a copy.

 

[EnRoute]

I am unsure why this has been done either. It doesn't seem right.

 

[allaction]

Mountains of current ATW timetables, which expire on Saturday, available on the counter at Carmarthen this morning, but none of the new ones.

I was tempted to scoop up fifty or so and put them on eBay in ten years time!*

*I wasn’t actually...

 

[theironroad]

Mountains of current ATW timetables, which expire on Saturday, available on the counter at Carmarthen this morning, but none of the new ones.

I was tempted to scoop up fifty or so and put them on eBay in ten years time!*

*I wasn’t actually...

Make it 50 years time and you might be onto something

 

[londonmidland]

Printed timetables are no good when there is service disruption or alterations to services. I can’t remember the last time I even used one.

From the comfort of my home, I can just go on my phone and in less than 10 seconds I can find out if trains are running to and from any station and check if they are on time and/or see if there’s any cancellations or delays.

Now can you imagine the inconvenience of having to go to the station to only find out that your train has been delayed/cancelled.

Times are moving on and technology is advancing.

Reminds me of the thread ‘Auto vs Manual announcements’

 

[Idon'tKnow]

I disagree completely. If I pick up a Virgin or London Midland timetable, I want to see ALL the trains between the stations I want to travel between.

Virgin's timetables are particularly poor. An obvious example is their timetable for the service between London and Chester which does not show connections at Crewe on to ATW services. These connections are particularly important at times when VT are not running through services. ATW's timetables do show connections and so are much more useful.

The virgin mini timetable for Chester-Crewe-London does (as far as I remember) show ATW connections at Crewe.

 

[geoffk]

I would expect printed timetables to be available a week before the change date, with the old and new issues clearly identified in the racks, but, as has been said above, the practice varies widely station by station.

Anyway, Northern leaflets for the new timetable have started to appear, despite being told June 1st before they are available. So far, no. 36 (Calder Valley) has been spotted at my local station, Littleborough, and at Todmorden. Tomorrow I shall go into Manchester and attempt to collect the remainder. I already have those for Virgin West Coast and TPE, also the Cross Country, Arriva Trains Wales and East Midlands Trains booklets relevant to Manchester. Stockport station had them all in the racks last Sunday while at Piccadilly they were just getting round to putting them out. A trip to Leeds will follow to collect the West Yorkshire ones. I sometimes manage to get the full set for Northern, but no. 1 (Chathill) and 31 (Barton-on-Humber) are the most difficult. Writing and checking (bus) timetables was always part of my job so it's just what I'm used to.

You will gather than I'm very much a printed timetable person but I also use RTT on my desktop to check my train before I leave home and of course rely on the CIS at stations. I need RTT for freights and steam specials. I've been thinking about getting a smartphone but don't think it will be a substitute for a printed timetable.

 

[whhistle]

I want to know the best use of my time by where to visit for a drink. For example, if I am leaving Leeds at 12.09 and want to arrive at Manchester Picc at 14.05, stopping off for a couple of drinks, I can look at this timetable:
View attachment 46718
and can immediately see various options:

• Time in Dewsbury (12.20-12.47), Huddersfield (12.56-13.30)
• Time in Dewsbury (12.20-12.47), Stalybridge (13.15-13.50)
• Time in Huddersfield (12.30-12.56), Stalybridge (13.15-13.50)

I'm not sure that would be so easy to work out with a smartphone/journey planner.

Come on though, many people won't stop enroute at a specific station just for a drink.

If you're travelling to Manchester, you'd just wait until you get there as I'd suggest most people want to get from A to B as quick as possible instead of wasting a bit of time at C, unless you're doing something specific at location C.

If you want to stop at Dewsbury specifically, you'd look at a train from Leeds to Dewsbury, then another from Dewsbury to Manchester.

Most, if not all journey planners defaultly show the fastest journey - even if it means changing trains, because that's the majority of people's primary need.

I rarely use timetables at all.
I either pre-prepare using an RJIS print out or just head to the departure board of that station and see what the next one is after my arrival.

 

[TrainfanBen]

I did ask.

They didn't have any.

They had been "put away".

That seems to contradict itself. Unless the inference is that they have just been outright thrown away. Which does seem a bit thoughtless from Preston staff.

...As if Sir Richard Branson had been overcome with some evil plight to come and take all the timetables... (I am joking by the way).

Pen and paper are both technology.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was referring to electrically powered technology/digitalisation. But I note your point

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

what are you on about? This isnt 1953 anymore!

I was 8 years old then and my good lady wife was 12 years old in 1953. In those days, we had to go to a telephone box with some pennies and know how to use buttons "A" and "B" when making telephone calls.

Did you ever see the television sketch where someone calls into a modern hi-tech retail establishment and wishes to buy a gramophone?

 

[6Gman]

Printed timetables are no good when there is service disruption or alterations to services. I can’t remember the last time I even used one.

From the comfort of my home, I can just go on my phone and in less than 10 seconds I can find out if trains are running to and from any station and check if they are on time and/or see if there’s any cancellations or delays.

Now can you imagine the inconvenience of having to go to the station to only find out that your train has been delayed/cancelled.

Times are moving on and technology is advancing.

Reminds me of the thread ‘Auto vs Manual announcements’

Once again a technophile rather misses the point.

I wasn't at home. I was at Preston station. I wanted to check the options for going to Blackburn or Accrington in the time I had available. For which purpose a printed timetable would have been ideal. But they'd been "put away".

And since I could both see the departure screens and hear the station announcements I would have been aware of any disruption.