TPE Journey times vs pre covid

[L+Y]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transpennine-route-upgrade-and-electrification-updates-cp6.88054/0

Forgive going a little off-topic, but...

I'm currently on my first, post-covid, trip over the Pennines. Am I imagining things, or have linespeeds been somewhat slowed since early 2020? Victoria to Huddersfield feels like something of an amble, and at 31 minutes seems a longer journey time than I recall?

 

[L+Y]

I've recently had reason to make my first journeys on TPE Liverpool-Newcastle services since early 2020.

Am I imagining things, or have the schedules been quite markedly slowed compared to a couple of years back?

 

[JonathanH]

I've recently had reason to make my first journeys on TPE Liverpool-Newcastle services since early 2020.

Am I imagining things, or have the schedules been quite markedly slowed compared to a couple of years back?

There is a wait at Manchester Victoria so the Liverpool to Newcastle service can switch between the Liverpool to Scarborough path and the Manchester Airport to Newcastle path.

Similarly, southbound it needs to be in the Newcastle to Manchester Airport path until Manchester Victoria so it is on the opposite side of the hour from the Saltburn service. It then picks up the original path into Liverpool.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Non-stop trains between Manchester Victoria and Liverpool Lime Street, which, even on a 185 could be done in 32 minutes, also seem to be a thing of the past, with practically every train to and from Liverpool calling at both Newton-le-Willows AND Lea Green.

 

[JonathanH]

Non-stop trains between Manchester Victoria and Liverpool Lime Street, which, even on a 185 could be done in 32 minutes, also seem to be a thing of the past, with practically every train to and from Liverpool calling at both Newton-le-Willows AND Lea Green.

That is hardly surprising given the Scarborough isn't in the timetable so the Newcastle has to cover both stops.

The whole thing is set up around continuing to serve all of the destinations in some way while cutting back on the number of trains. That means the fast has to be sacrificed.

 

[scrapy]

Non-stop trains between Manchester Victoria and Liverpool Lime Street, which, even on a 185 could be done in 32 minutes, also seem to be a thing of the past, with practically every train to and from Liverpool calling at both Newton-le-Willows AND Lea Green.

It was an agreement that TPE had to call hourly at both Newton le Willows and St Helens Jn, when they took the path of Northerns semi fast service that used to operate on that route (pre 2018) to operate a second hourly service to Liverpool. TPE got St Helens Jn changed to Lea Green due to better parking and bus links. As TPE are only running hourly to Liverpool currently they need to stop at both on every service.

 

[David Bullock]

iirc there’s the 7:24 lime st to Edinburgh that still runs to the old timings (i.e no ~10 min wait at Manchester) which is about 15 minutes quicker to the North East than anything else during the day.

 

[Watershed]

iirc there’s the 7:24 lime st to Edinburgh that still runs to the old timings (i.e no ~10 min wait at Manchester) which is about 15 minutes quicker to the North East than anything else during the day.

Yes, trains run to a pre-Covid-ish timetable in the morning peak.

 

[Starmill]

I'm currently on my first, post-covid, trip over the Pennines. Am I imagining things, or have linespeeds been somewhat slowed since early 2020? Victoria to Huddersfield feels like something of an amble, and at 31 minutes seems a longer journey time than I recall?

28 minutes was regular between Manchester Piccadilly and Huddersfield. 30 is now typical from Manchester Victoria, although for example the 0800 departure on Monday morning gets to Huddersfield in 27 minutes. Relatively minor differences really.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Should be faster again from December when the through hourly Scarborough returns.

 

[JonathanH]

Should be faster again from December when the through hourly Scarborough returns.

The through hourly Scarborough isn't returning every hour and only a handful reach Liverpool. The Liverpool to Newcastle continues to step back into the slower Manchester Airport to Newcastle path after a wait at Victoria.

 

[Fokx]

Should be faster again from December when the through hourly Scarborough returns.

May 2022, not December

 

[Watershed]

The through hourly Scarborough isn't returning every hour and only a handful reach Liverpool. The Liverpool to Newcastle continues to step back into the slower Manchester Airport to Newcastle path after a wait at Victoria.

Yep, unfortunately tight turnarounds at Manchester are the only way that hourly Manchester-Scarborough services can be resourced. And because that then involves using a different path to normal in the eastbound direction, the Liverpool to Newcastle services have to step back.

Once Liverpool-Scarborough returns to hourly, you will see a resumption of pre-Covid journey times and frequencies between Manchester and Liverpool.