TPE liverpool to cleethorpes via CLC

[mcnw35282]

So there's no direct service to manchester airport on the CLC from December? Bet they're gonna love that!

 

[jonnyfan]

So there's no direct service to manchester airport on the CLC from December? Bet they're gonna love that!

They do lose their direct airport service yes. Although currently with the temporary timetables they haven't had a direct airport service recently (except on a Sunday).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So there's no direct service to manchester airport on the CLC from December? Bet they're gonna love that!

There will still be the TfW service to the airport from Warrington BQ.

 

[Greybeard33]

So there's no direct service to manchester airport on the CLC from December? Bet they're gonna love that!

For the Airport, there will be a 6-minute same platform change at Piccadilly (or Oxford Road) between the half-hourly Blackpool - Airport services and both the Cleethorpes and the Nottingham CLC services. In both directions.

 

[Watershed]

So there's no direct service to manchester airport on the CLC from December? Bet they're gonna love that!

Yes. That's the price of Southport keeping its precious Castlefield service.

 

[Greybeard33]

Yes. That's the price of Southport keeping its precious Castlefield service.

Not really. The original MRTF Options B and C, which would have diverted the Southport service to Victoria, nevertheless had the Cleethorpes service on the CLC in place of the Liverpool - Airport.

 

[Bevan Price]

What a great idea it is to use the end coach Mk5s for Platforms 13 & 14 at Manchester Piccadilly when the train empties out before refilling, rather than the 185s with the large central doors.

But 5 loco-hauled coaches will be better than 185s when - almost inevitably, some "185-operated" trains are short-formed with only 3 coaches.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss what is actually happening; for speculation please use the Speculative Discussion section.

Some posts have been moved to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/possible-solutions-for-south-tpe-clc-line-services.228961/

 

[jonnyb1978]

Was driving through Orford in Warrington last week, and I noticed a TPE 185 speeding past on an overbridge...thought it was odd, but I guess this explains it.

This is Liverpool drivers refreshing Cheshire lines who have been unable to route review during covid.

 

[CAF397]

This is Liverpool drivers refreshing Cheshire lines who have been unable to route review during covid.

Not just Liverpool drivers. Liverpool guards too. In fact, Manchester drivers learning or refreshing and also Sheffield drivers learning. It's for any depot to use accordingly.

 

[robbeech]

It took me a while to work out that this wasn’t discussing travelling via Castle Cary.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

For the Airport, there will be a 6-minute same platform change at Piccadilly (or Oxford Road) between the half-hourly Blackpool - Airport services and both the Cleethorpes and the Nottingham CLC services. In both directions.

Of course, a same-direction connection time at Manchester Piccadilly on Platform 13 or 14 still needs to be at least 10 minutes, even though it should NEVER be necessary to actually change platforms. However, the connection time at Manchester Oxford Road only needs to be 5 minutes, even though there is a stronger chance of needing to change platforms, only accessible by the narrow footbridge and stairs!

 

[Greybeard33]

Of course, a same-direction connection time at Manchester Piccadilly on Platform 13 or 14 still needs to be at least 10 minutes, even though it should NEVER be necessary to actually change platforms. However, the connection time at Manchester Oxford Road only needs to be 5 minutes, even though there is a stronger chance of needing to change platforms, only accessible by the narrow footbridge and stairs!

Indeed, journey planner algorithms will recommend changing at Oxford Road, because of the difference in minimum connection time. But savvy regular travellers will get to realise that they will have a better choice of seats if they change at Piccadilly westbound. In any case westbound trains all use Oxford Road Platform 2 unless there is severe disruption. Platform 1 is not accessible to wheelchairs and a westbound departure from Platform 3 involves a "wrong road" move.

Eastbound trains are normally booked into Oxford Road Platform 4, but are occasionally diverted into Platform 3. 6 minutes should usually be plenty long enough to cross the footbridge, but again regulars will learn that changing at Piccadilly is less stressful.

 

[sjm77]

Eastbound trains are normally booked into Oxford Road Platform 4, but are occasionally diverted into Platform 3. 6 minutes should usually be plenty long enough to cross the footbridge, but again regulars will learn that changing at Piccadilly is less stressful.

Not when the platform change announcement is made as the next Eastbound service trundles through Deansgate and arrives into a different platform 45 seconds later. Even worse when I witnessed a change on Christmas Eve morning and no tannoy announcement was made at all.

 

[Freemo]

On the one hand this is about a 20% capacity reduction on the South Transpennine from 2x185, on the other hand a large chunk of the time they've been running has been pandemic-hit. Some leisure travellers won't even realise it ever was 2x185.

 

[Sheridan]

Indeed, journey planner algorithms will recommend changing at Oxford Road, because of the difference in minimum connection time. But savvy regular travellers will get to realise that they will have a better choice of seats if they change at Piccadilly westbound. In any case westbound trains all use Oxford Road Platform 2 unless there is severe disruption. Platform 1 is not accessible to wheelchairs and a westbound departure from Platform 3 involves a "wrong road" move.

Eastbound trains are normally booked into Oxford Road Platform 4, but are occasionally diverted into Platform 3. 6 minutes should usually be plenty long enough to cross the footbridge, but again regulars will learn that changing at Piccadilly is less stressful.

Getting off-topic here so I apologise, but the xx28(ish) from Manchester Airport to Barrow is booked to use platform 1 a lot of the time. It leaves the airport ahead of a TfW service to Chester or north Wales, but then goes into p1 and the TfW departs Oxford Road ahead of it.

 

[Greybeard33]

Getting off-topic here so I apologise, but the xx28(ish) from Manchester Airport to Barrow is booked to use platform 1 a lot of the time. It leaves the airport ahead of a TfW service to Chester or north Wales, but then goes into p1 and the TfW departs Oxford Road ahead of it.

You are correct insofar as the 1626 Airport to Barrow, M-F, is currently booked to use Oxford Road Platform 1, with a dwell from 1650 to 1659 that allows the 1629 Airport to Chester to overtake. In all other hours the Barrow service is booked into Platform 2, ahead of the TfW.

However, in the draft December 2022 timetable, which is the topic of this thread, the paths from the Airport are swapped, with the TfW departing the Airport at xx26 and the Barrow, which is rerouted via Bolton, at xx29. The 1629 to Barrow has a normal 1 minute dwell at Oxford Road and so will likely be booked into Platform 2 behind the TfW.

As far as I can see, the only other service currently booked into Platform 1 is the 2043 Wilmslow to Liverpool, which has a dwell from 2120 to 2127 at Oxford Road. But in the December timetable this service terminates at Piccadilly.

 

[Sheridan]

You are correct insofar as the 1626 Airport to Barrow, M-F, is currently booked to use Oxford Road Platform 1, with a dwell from 1650 to 1659 that allows the 1629 Airport to Chester to overtake. In all other hours the Barrow service is booked into Platform 2, ahead of the TfW.

However, in the draft December 2022 timetable, which is the topic of this thread, the paths from the Airport are swapped, with the TfW departing the Airport at xx26 and the Barrow, which is rerouted via Bolton, at xx29. The 1629 to Barrow has a normal 1 minute dwell at Oxford Road and so will likely be booked into Platform 2 behind the TfW.

As far as I can see, the only other service currently booked into Platform 1 is the 2043 Wilmslow to Liverpool, which has a dwell from 2120 to 2127 at Oxford Road. But in the December timetable this service terminates at Piccadilly.

To be honest I though there were more than just the 1626, but I am glad to hear that the TfW and Northern are swapping - while there are of course factors beyond my consideration, it seemed odd that the TfW arrives into Manchester Airport before the Northern, then goes out after it, only to overtake at Oxford Road.

 

[wireforever]

I wonder if the changes will effect passenger numbers .I have been before covid the only person getting on a train @ Warrington West to Liverpool/Manchester (1st off peak weekday service)never happened at Sankey.TPE on the CLC had to run 6 car 185's towards the end of their route change due to constant overcrowding after numerous complaints/passengers unable to board at Warrington Central

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if the changes will effect passenger numbers .I have been before covid the only person getting on a train @ Warrington West to Liverpool/Manchester (1st off peak weekday service)never happened at Sankey.TPE on the CLC had to run 6 car 185's towards the end of their route change due to constant overcrowding after numerous complaints/passengers unable to board at Warrington Central

You can add Warrington West to the Ordsall Chord for the "white elephants in the North West that are more negative than positive in overall effect" list if you like.

 

[Djgr]

You can add Warrington West to the Ordsall Chord for the "white elephants in the North West that are more negative than positive in overall effect" list if you like.

Well we have Golborne to add to this list in the future.