Trip to Scotland

[THarris123]

So I'm now back in Bristol away from Scotland where I've been for the last couple of weeks. I visited Edinburgh, Stirling, Falkirk, Fort William, Glasgow and Ayr all in that time.

Few thoughts & vehicle observations (First only):-
Edinburgh:
Who are Lothian Buses owned by? What's the transport for Edinburgh thing exactly? And why on earth do they not give you change?
Obs: 63266 (38) (65 plate Streetlite Max), 63264, 63263 (38), 32904, 61229, 65704, 69406, 63223, 32680, 32681, 62136, 61223, 62186
Stirling & Falkirk:
Why is the 100 service only hourly?
Obs: 60168, 69286, 32919, 69280 (2A), 69258 (100), 47532 (3), 53706, 32921 (5C), 65752 (1), 69260, 61225 (5), 32892 (5A), 69292 (38), 47534 (3), 53702 (29), 61222 (NiS), 60198 (7), 31143, 33030, 69409 (38A), 69410, 32893, 62124 (2), 63259 (38), 63256 (38), 41488 (54), 62385 (60), 63265, 60195 (Larbert depot), 43842 (depot), 32909, 65664 (4A), 32924 (7), 32896 (2), 31562, 69289, 68556, 47533, 69287 (17), 69403 (38), 69405 (1 on one day, 38 on the other), 47614, 69257 (100), 47617 (3), 32951 (3), 47532 (3), 69283 (38), 53703 (29), 47614 (1), 50468, 47613 (3), 63259 (38), 62203, 32922 (6), 31146 (NiS), 61222 (38), 32948 (391), 32923 (F8).
I also saw a 14 plate E200 - FM36. Do we know what fleet number that is?
Fort William:
Bus allocation on Stagecoach seems appalling up there. There was (I think) an R reg B10M on 45 at one stage, then a couple of E400s and a couple of E300s, along with several coaches. Services seem ok, especially for the highlands.
Glasgow:
First Bus seems to have a completely different system there. The ticket machines in all of Scotland are completely different to ours in Somerset. In Glasgow they also don't have the facility to give change. Why?
Didn't make a note of any fleet numbers, but it was interesting to see an E500 (quite big horrible machines) and so many E300s. I even got to experience my first ride on a First E300, which was pretty nice. I'm surprised how different the layout is compared to the Wright machines. Both on the E400s (which I experienced) and the E300s they seem to have more space for wheelchairs, but less seats and more of an empty space. Very interesting and very different.

The whole thing about the change situation isn't really made any easier (and this is what frustrates me about the whole experience) by the stupid fares. How many tourists, and commuters for that matter, are going to carry around £4.30 in change each day in Glasgow? Madness.

Still thoroughly enjoyed it though nonetheless.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So I'm now back in Bristol away from Scotland where I've been for the last couple of weeks. I visited Edinburgh, Stirling, Falkirk, Fort William, Glasgow and Ayr all in that time.

Few thoughts & vehicle observations (First only):-
Edinburgh:
Who are Lothian Buses owned by? What's the transport for Edinburgh thing exactly? And why on earth do they not give you change?
Obs: 63266 (38) (65 plate Streetlite Max), 63264, 63263 (38), 32904, 61229, 65704, 69406, 63223, 32680, 32681, 62136, 61223, 62186
Stirling & Falkirk:
Why is the 100 service only hourly?
Obs: 60168, 69286, 32919, 69280 (2A), 69258 (100), 47532 (3), 53706, 32921 (5C), 65752 (1), 69260, 61225 (5), 32892 (5A), 69292 (38), 47534 (3), 53702 (29), 61222 (NiS), 60198 (7), 31143, 33030, 69409 (38A), 69410, 32893, 62124 (2), 63259 (38), 63256 (38), 41488 (54), 62385 (60), 63265, 60195 (Larbert depot), 43842 (depot), 32909, 65664 (4A), 32924 (7), 32896 (2), 31562, 69289, 68556, 47533, 69287 (17), 69403 (38), 69405 (1 on one day, 38 on the other), 47614, 69257 (100), 47617 (3), 32951 (3), 47532 (3), 69283 (38), 53703 (29), 47614 (1), 50468, 47613 (3), 63259 (38), 62203, 32922 (6), 31146 (NiS), 61222 (38), 32948 (391), 32923 (F8).
I also saw a 14 plate E200 - FM36. Do we know what fleet number that is?
Fort William:
Bus allocation on Stagecoach seems appalling up there. There was (I think) an R reg B10M on 45 at one stage, then a couple of E400s and a couple of E300s, along with several coaches. Services seem ok, especially for the highlands.
Glasgow:
First Bus seems to have a completely different system there. The ticket machines in all of Scotland are completely different to ours in Somerset. In Glasgow they also don't have the facility to give change. Why?
Didn't make a note of any fleet numbers, but it was interesting to see an E500 (quite big horrible machines) and so many E300s. I even got to experience my first ride on a First E300, which was pretty nice. I'm surprised how different the layout is compared to the Wright machines. Both on the E400s (which I experienced) and the E300s they seem to have more space for wheelchairs, but less seats and more of an empty space. Very interesting and very different.

The whole thing about the change situation isn't really made any easier (and this is what frustrates me about the whole experience) by the stupid fares. How many tourists, and commuters for that matter, are going to carry around £4.30 in change each day in Glasgow? Madness.

Still thoroughly enjoyed it though nonetheless.

Sure the Scottish experts can provide some more detailed answers but the use of exact fare is not just a Scottish phenomenon but also National Express West Midlands and Newport to name but two.

The reason is historical. In the 1960's when buses had conductors, they handled the cash. Then they wanted to move to one man operation (OMO) as it was then. Exact fare was introduced so that drivers had less responsibility (often a union stipulation no, but also to speed up travel times.

After deregulation, many firms moved away from that (often because competitors made a virtue of giving change) but some didn't.

I was in Fort William earlier this year so not quite sure what you mean about allocations? For territory as poor as Lochaber, 57 plate e400s were fairly decent. There's B10Ms and other stuff but I guess a lot is dependant on schools etc

 

[overthewater]

B10M are for the schools but I have to wonder if the same reason as Arran is connected here? IE some of the roads? Also would Low floor be able to cope with the snow?

Explore Dundee, Lothain, First Aberdeen, First service in Lothians, all don't give change either, your comments are a bit strange.

Lothian Buses owned by the four councils which used to make up Lothian regional, Edinburgh, East/mid/west lothian.

Transport for Edinburgh, (is another council own body) is the holding company of 91% of Edinburgh city council shares in Lothian buses and 100% of the trams.

Why is the 100 service only hourly?

Its paid for by the council and most of its route is duplicated by other services

 

[Hophead]

There's also a security aspect to the exact fare method of operation. The farebox is a locked vault, so miscreants are dissuaded from demanding cash with menaces off the driver. Some areas of operation in Edinburgh, Glasgow and elsewhere are not the most salubrious.

In London, of course, this problem has been handled by simply not accepting cash on the bus at all.

 

[mbonwick]

Lothian Buses are owned by Edinburgh City Council. It's one of the few remaining municipal operators. Transport for Edinbugh is the transport arm of the Council.

Most of the roads served by Stagecoach Highlands aren't that bad - it's just that margins are low (so new vehicles aren't justifed) and vehicles are required to double up as school buses (hence the use of 63 seat B10M/PSs).
Replacements are of course on their way to meet the impending DDA deadline.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

In Glasgow before First was on the go, Strathclyde Buses operated 'Exact Fare Only' faults and believe it or not the fares in Glasgow within the city zone is either £1.20 or £2.00.

With regards to FM36, that E200 is owned by Ferrymill Motors of Torrance, and usually when FM buses are out, it means an operator usually has a vehicle in for repair.

 

[Strathclyder]

Glasgow:
Didn't make a note of any fleet numbers, but it was interesting to see an E500 (quite big horrible machines) and so many E300s. I even got to experience my first ride on a First E300, which was pretty nice. I'm surprised how different the layout is compared to the Wright machines. Both on the E400s (which I experienced) and the E300s they seem to have more space for wheelchairs, but less seats and more of an empty space. Very interesting and very different.

First Glasgow's E500s (38201 - 38225) are the only E500s in revenue-earning service in the United Kingdom. Their primary allocations are the 4/4A (Knightswood - Newton Mearns/Eaglesham) & the 75 (Milton - Castlemilk), where their extra capacity is a real boon, the 75 in particular.

However, as a result of their massive size and frankly terrible fuel economy (4-5 MPG or something like that), they are mostly confined to these 2 routes, although they can stray away from them on occasion. Their poor fuel consumption also means that they're barred from leaving the depot (Caledonia) on Sundays.

 

[overthewater]

E500 are off to Aberdeen to replace bendis.

Lothian Buses are owned by Edinburgh City Council. It's one of the few remaining municipal operators. Transport for Edinbugh is the transport arm of the Council.

Lothian Buses is owned by the FOUR councils: Edinburgh city 91%, with the other 9% with East/mid/west Lothian.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

E500 are off to Aberdeen to replace bendis.



Lothian Buses is owned by the FOUR councils: Edinburgh city 91%, with the other 9% with East/mid/west Lothian.

Has the E500 rumour actually been confirmed? I doubt they will move any way until Glasgow get's their new E400s...

 

[overthewater]

Has the E500 rumour actually been confirmed? I doubt they will move any way until Glasgow get's their new E400s...

I believe so, but wont move as you said until the E400 turn up and then E500 are getting refurbished and should appear up north by December.

 

[Volvodart]

I believe so, but wont move as you said until the E400 turn up and then E500 are getting refurbished and should appear up north by December.

Due to timescales they are not getting refurbished until next year. One a day is supposed to be coming from the start of November until early December.

 

[THarris123]

Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks for confirming about Lothian Buses.

The thing I don't understand about the exact fare thing, is how many tourists exactly are going to get on a bus with the correct change? Very few of them are going to know what the exact fare is and even less are going to have the correct change on them. Just seems a bit silly. Commuters should know what the fare is going to be, so they can probably plan ahead, but tourists such as myself don't carry bundles of change around with them all day every day. There are quite a few bus providers which do the exact fare scheme - I know of one in Swindon as well and a few others. I do understand why they do it - for security purposes and to make it easier for the drivers, but they are going to turn away passengers all the time and lose out to competitors. I'm rather surprised too that First bus, a company with a national reputation have nearly a completely different way of doing things in Glasgow.

 

[Robertj21a]

Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks for confirming about Lothian Buses.

The thing I don't understand about the exact fare thing, is how many tourists exactly are going to get on a bus with the correct change? Very few of them are going to know what the exact fare is and even less are going to have the correct change on them. Just seems a bit silly. Commuters should know what the fare is going to be, so they can probably plan ahead, but tourists such as myself don't carry bundles of change around with them all day every day. There are quite a few bus providers which do the exact fare scheme - I know of one in Swindon as well and a few others. I do understand why they do it - for security purposes and to make it easier for the drivers, but they are going to turn away passengers all the time and lose out to competitors. I'm rather surprised too that First bus, a company with a national reputation have nearly a completely different way of doing things in Glasgow.

...........'First Bus with a national reputation' - for what ?

If I recall correctly, doesn't Lothian have the exact fare details on the bus stops ?

 

[LAIRA]

Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks for confirming about Lothian Buses.

The thing I don't understand about the exact fare thing, is how many tourists exactly are going to get on a bus with the correct change? Very few of them are going to know what the exact fare is and even less are going to have the correct change on them. Just seems a bit silly. Commuters should know what the fare is going to be, so they can probably plan ahead, but tourists such as myself don't carry bundles of change around with them all day every day. There are quite a few bus providers which do the exact fare scheme - I know of one in Swindon as well and a few others. I do understand why they do it - for security purposes and to make it easier for the drivers, but they are going to turn away passengers all the time and lose out to competitors. I'm rather surprised too that First bus, a company with a national reputation have nearly a completely different way of doing things in Glasgow.

When we were in Glasgow earlier in the year we had no change so thought we would catch a McGills. It so long to arrive we hailed a taxi and it was only 90p more than the bus for 3 of us.

 

[sng7]

Lothian have both fares on the timetable at the bus stop and have the single and day ticket prices obviously on the front of every bus since they have a flat fare structure. The airport bus give change and you can buy both an unlimited travel card, and a card you can top up with single tickets. You can purchase and use tickets with an app on your phone. You can also buy books of tickets and daytickets in advance form one of the travelshops with ones both next to waverley and one to open soon opposite haymarket. So its not like Lothian aren't trying and to be honest using the buses day in and out change would take too long with the number of people that use the buses in edinburgh, its just not feasible.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

List of places with exact fares http://www.plusbus.info/sites/default/files/pdfs/Exact fare buses list.pdf

Sure there's other locations too - Preston?

 

[ian1944]

To add to the Edinburgh position, while Lothian give fare detail at stops, on the buses and on the printed timetables, First don't. As neither give change, it's easy to see which has more delay from passengers counting out the exact money.

 

[overthewater]

First do give change on the 38/A, 62 and X95. To be fai, there operated by the midland bluebird licence.

 

[duncombec]

This may count as thread hijacking depending on the forum rules, but the title seems to fit, and why open a new one...

I'm heading to Edinburgh, with daytrips elsewhere, in October, and aside from the buses themselves, I am quite interested in the timetable leaflets and publicity. Can anyone give an insight into where I might be able to pick things up from the places below, and if so, whether it is freely accessible or strictly behind the counter for the illuminati only...

Edinburgh - Lothian Travelshops are easy, and I assume there is still the rack of Stagecoach/First stuff at the bus station, but anywhere else that might be useful?

Dalkeith - Anything in the Lothian travelshop that I can't get in the centre of Edinburgh? (i.e. is it worth the diversion on the way back from Rosslyn?)

Livingstone OR Bathgate: I only have time for one or the other - Bathgate looks better on Google Maps in terms of actual buses, but any chance of publicity (particularly E&M Horsburgh).

Glasgow - Buchanan Bus Station I know, but is the rack still there at St Enoch Subway station? I can't find any reference to the SPT info centre that used to be there. That was quite good on my last visit for SPT leaflets that weren't at Buchanan.

Govan OR South Glasgow Hospital OR Paisley: Two out of three at most, a ride on Fastlink being the main idea. I can't recall anything at Govan on my last visit, but I didn't go into the Subway station. Never been to either of the other places, but will try if the bus + leaflet mix is good!

Falkirk: Plenty of buses, but where might I find out where they go? Stirling does a good job of advertising it's bus station and that timetables are there, Falkirk seems to keep quiet. Tourist Info Centre?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

 

[overthewater]

Your going to have real trouble in some of the areas

timetable leaflets and publicit Everything in red should give you a good clue.

Edinburgh - Lothian Travelshops are easy, and I assume there is still the rack of Stagecoach/First stuff at the bus station, but anywhere else that might be useful?

Yes the bus station has all other operates Watch out the racks have been spilt up and you may need walked down the WHOLE bus station to find everythin, Including; M8, perryman and if you ask nicely behide the ticket desk you might get some of the Border area timetable books if your lucky.

Dalkeith - Anything in the Lothian travelshop that I can't get in the centre of Edinburgh? (i.e. is it worth the diversion on the way back from Rosslyn?)

ALL Lothian timetables are stocked at all the travel shops. If your after the Prentice of Haddington and Eves you should get them in the Haddington council office. Prentice should also be in the ERI, if you get lucky you might also get E&M 40 for Livingston.

Livingstone OR Bathgate: I only have time for one or the other - Bathgate looks better on Google Maps in terms of actual buses, but any chance of publicity (particularly E&M Horsburgh).


Livingston bus station has First, Stagecoach, E&M and Blue bus. Bathgate has First, SD travel and E&M.

Timetables? Nothing, zero, not a chance. Livingston is pretty bad, and its council office no longer stocks anything, the shopping centre does stock stuff but mainly around service changes.

St Johns H; it might have some stuff.

You might get something in the Bathgate council office but its very unlikely. The council has been very lazy. I don't think its printed any timetables since 2012. ( 2013 for the 31/32) you could try the First Depot at Deans ( 27/28 and 800 go past it)

Glasgow - Buchanan Bus Station I know, but is the rack still there at St Enoch Subway station? I can't find any reference to the SPT info centre that used to be there. That was quite good on my last visit for SPT leaflets that weren't at Buchanan.

The rack at St Enoch subway, I have been informed by SPT has been taken out. Your right the travel centre at St Enoch was outstanding but I believe most of the details have been moved into the Mobile SPT travel centre.
http://www.spt.co.uk/bus/bus-stations/travel-information/
Buchanan bus station has been cut back, but you should get most of First ( including Lanarkshire) Stagecoach, some of the Mcgills stuff. Anything else is a real bonus.

Govan OR South Glasgow Hospital OR Paisley: Two out of three at most, a ride on Fastlink being the main idea. I can't recall anything at Govan on my last visit, but I didn't go into the Subway station. Never been to either of the other places, but will try if the bus + leaflet mix is good!

Your best bet really would be Hospital ( timetable Rack, ALSO check the huge enquire desk, stuff is also placed on it. Paisley; you should get stuff in the Main council office - cotton street and the library ( both have racks/stands)
Mcgills also have driver office on Old Sneddon St, if you knock on the door you might get lucky.

Falkirk: Plenty of buses, but where might I find out where they go? Stirling does a good job of advertising it's bus station and that timetables are there, Falkirk seems to keep quiet. Tourist Info Centre?

None of the tourist offices have bus timetables, its a joke. Falkirk bus station does have an First bus office and you will find timetables in a rack. Forth Valley hospital also has a timetable rack. Bo'ness council office does have a leaflet for the local council routes, in the racks

 

[duncombec]

Thanks overthewater for your speedy and comprehensive reply: I shall certainly be able to use this information to help in the planning (not least to rush to Bathgate at the particular expense of anywhere else, and likewise a stop in Govan can be edited out).

 

[overthewater]

Govan bus station is currently being redeveloped, as part of the new Fast link.
http://www.spt.co.uk/corporate/2015/03/spt-to-invest-7-million-in-new-look-govan-interchange/

I doubt a timetable rack will appear once its complete. West Lothian used to be good, I have no idea why its got so bad. Maybe someone doesn't want to inform bus users. Even the electronic screen in Livingston are broken, and have been for the past two years.

You should get some decent stuff in Hamilton or East Kilbride SPT travel centre.