Trivia: Historically longer bus routes

[43055]

Transpeak used to run Nottingham-Derby-Matlock-Bakewell-Buxton-Manchester. It was cut back to Derby, then withdrawn from Manchester to Buxton alongside the Northern timetable uplift in 2018. Today it runs Bakewell-Buxton with some journeys to Derby

The Transpeak still runs hourly all the way from Derby to Buxton. Some early/late journeys work through to Dove Holes as the 185.

X18 Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) to Sheffield was run by PMT/ First Potteries .
It was then split in 2 (both connecting at Buxton) 118 Hanley to Buxton (First Potteries) then 218 Buxton to Sheffield (First South Yorkshire)
218 was then withdrawn. 118 was then withdrawn by First

Does the current TM Travel 218 relate to the ex First SY one at all?

 

[Simon75]

The Transpeak still runs hourly all the way from Derby to Buxton. Some early/late journeys work through to Dove Holes as the 185.


Does the current TM Travel 218 relate to the ex First SY one at all?

That operates Sheffield to Bakewell only now, with the same route between Sheffield and Bakewell

 

[TheSel]

To add to posts #17 and #19 (from @Pub and @Statto respectively), there were loads of long Crosville routes, which still [broadly] exist in a shorter form.

The Chester - Rhyl service (then numbered A1/A2) that is still broadly run by Arriva (as an 11 with various suffixes) - though not following the exact same route - was actually shown in timetables as Chester - Rhyl - Llandudno - Caernarfon [then referred to as Carnarvon], so although passengers had to change in Rhyl, it was still considered one service, and through tickets were available from/to points either side of Rhyl. It was perfectly possible to travel from Rhyl to Caernarfon in the same uncomfortable rexene seat on an ECW bodied Bristol LD or FS until the mid 1970s, when that service was split into M13 Rhyl - Llandudno (some journeys extending to Llandudno Junction), and M5 Llandudno - Caernarfon. I did it once, but came back on the quicker, more comfortable, and much missed 'Cymru Coastliner' - a limited stop version that took a somewhat shorter route, whilst still linking the key towns along the coast.

Other long Crosville routes that spring to mind and are now split into shorter ones include:

B4 Chester - Mold - Denbigh A number of Chester - Mold routes exist, run by Arriva Wales and M&H Coaches, and a skeleton Mold - Denbigh service run by P&O Lloyd, but no through service.
C22/23 Meols - West Kirby - Chester A West Kirby - Chester service still exists, run by Al's Coaches, but not evenings or Sundays.
E29/30 Manchester - Alderley - Macclesfield No longer possible to travel directly from Manchester City Centre to Macclesfield by one bus.
H20-24 (each variation via a different set of suburbs / villages) Liverpool - Runcorn - Chester A number of Liverpool - Runcorn and Runcorn - Chester routes still exist, but there's no through service this way (although Liverpool is linked to Chester more directly via the Birkenhead tunnel by Stagecoach Merseyside's 1 / X1).
309/319 Southport - Ormskirk - St Helens - Warrington OK - technically not a Crosville route. Crosville had a minor share, as did Merseyside PTE in what was primarily a Ribble service, but nevertheless, there was a through service end to end, broadly hourly (even on Sundays!), together with numerous short journeys. Today, the Southport - Ormskirk section is part of Arriva Merseyside's 385, St Helens to Warrington is covered by Arriva Merseyside's and Link Network's 329 - the number given in the 1970s to some of the short workings Warrington - St Helens - Rainford, and the section between Ormskirk and Rainford (extended at each end to give a token through Southport - St Helens service) is covered by a two hourly Merseytravel / Lancashire County Council tendered service numbered 152, presently operated by Huyton Travel. But on Sunday's, you're walking that section between Ormskirk and Rainford!

A more recent example, I guess, is the 19 - Llandudno - Betws-y-Coed, presently operated by Llew Jones Coaches. For very many years, there was an M19 (and M20 variant) Llandudno - Llanrwst service, operated broadly hourly by Crosville, so it could be argued today's service is the very opposite of what's being asked for - it's an extension. However, in Arriva days, the service was extended from Betws-y-Coed for a couple of years in the 2000s to reach Corwen - pretty much in the way that the T10 now operates - and onwards to Llangollen, so it's a shortening of that service. I'll let the pedants decide whether that counts or not!

 

[duncombec]

Which routes used to be longer than they are now? (Excluding those which have a split number for EU rules).

In Kent / Sussex the 5 used to run Maidstone - Hastings, now cut back to Hawkhurst

Similarly the 12, which used to run Maidstone to Rye, but now terminates at Tenterden.

In both cases, the southern section was an East Sussex tender lost (or deliberately not won) by Arriva bolted on to an otherwise commercial service.

 

[Typhoon]

I'm fairly certain that there was a route (10 or 710?) that ran from Folkestone to Ashford (roughly what is now the 10) then on to Maidstone (rougly the 10X) then on to Borough Green, some at least going on to Sevenoaks. It was when M&D withdrew from Maidstone and M&D and East Kent were working closely together.

Midland Red used to have quite a few long routes:

144: Birmingham - Bromsgrove - Droitwich - Worcester - Malvern Wells (now lost the start and end legs)
192 Birmingham - Halesowen - Kidderminster - Ludlow (now just the middle section)

 

[randyrippley]

I'm sure that during National Bus days some of the Ribble 555 services used to run Lancaster-Keswick-Cockermouth-Carlisle. Or at least that's what the timetables implied
Now just Lancaster-Keswick

 

[WibbleWobble]

Arriva 34 between Leigh and St Helens has been shortened at both ends over the years, originally running Manchester to Liverpool. The service was split at Leigh with First running the eastern leg, later becoming X34, back to 34 under Stagecoach (but rerouted via Salford Royal) and is now the Bee Network 35.

Bee Network 33 used to run through to Wigan when run by GM/GM North/First. It was whittled back, firstly during the daytime, then later the tendered evening and Sunday journeys being cut to match the core service.

Bee Network 22, which used to be Bolton - Stockport until it was split by First and Stagecoach. The north bit became the 2 (and subsequently renumbered back), the southern leg is now the 25.

Slightly different is the Bee Network 559, which was originally Bolton - Wigan. Competing MTL journeys ran through to St Helens via Orrell, to which GM North extended their service to Pemberton. Cut back to Wigan by both, MTL latter quitting it. Under First truncated back to Hindley, later extended via a new routing to Ashton-in-Makerfield.

 

[Ken H]

West Yorkshire Road Car 67 used to be Bradford - Skipton. Now you have to change at Keighley

The Wharfedale service 72 is split at Grassington. Skipton - Buckden you need to change.

There was a Leeds City Transport service 35 that started at the bus station, went round Alwoodley clockwise along Alwoodley Lane, then back to the bus station. The 34 went the other way round. Now there is just the 7A that does the 35 to half way along Alwoodley Ln before going back to the bus station the way it did the outward journey, leaving a chunk of Alwoodley Ln with no buses. The eastern part of the circle is now covered by Harrogate Bus Company 36's that do Leeds - Ripon (always have)

There used to be a Keighley West Yorkshire 12 that did Haworth - Ilkley. Thats been chopped and now there is a Haworth - Keighley service, and the 62 Keighley - Ilkley.

Used to be a Huddersfield - Bradford - ilkley service but that was split during WW2

Used to be a Yorkshire Woollen service 2 Ossett-Dewsbury-Brighouse-Halifax-Denholme-Keighley. It was running in 1966. Now there is a Halifax - Keighley 502 run by Transdev Team Pennine.

 

[JonathanH]

Plenty just south of London.

The 402 used to run from Bromley to Tunbridge Wells, and now runs from Sevenoaks to Tunbridge Wells

The 403 used to run from Croydon to Sevenoaks via Westerham, and now runs from Croydon to Warlingham

The 405 used to run from Croydon to Crawley (with a separate 414 from Croydon to Redhill, then Dorking and Horsham) and now runs from Croydon to Redhil

The 406 used to run from Kingston to Redhill, and now runs from Kingston to Epsom, with the 460 running from Epsom to Crawley

The 408 used to run from Croydon to Guildford, and now runs from Epsom to Cobham

The 409 used to run from Croydon to East Grinstead, and now runs from Selsdon to East Grinstead

The 410 used to run from Reigate to Bromley via Westerham, and now runs from Redhill to Oxted (with a short extension to the south) and the 246 runs from Bromley to Westerham

The 418 used to run from Kingston to Bookham and now runs from Kingston to Epsom

The 65 used to run from Ealing to Leatherhead, but now runs from Ealing to Kingston, with the 465 running from Kingston to Dorking

 

[gc4946]

In 1977, there was a hourly 39 bus between Liverpool and Tyldesley with two hourly extensions to Manchester during Merseyside PTE and Greater Manchester PTE days, which formed part of a combined 15 minute service with the 317 and 320 between Liverpool-St Helens

Route History

post #119

Nowadays you have to change at St Helens and Leigh if you wanted to travel between Liverpool and Manchester.

 

[lawried123]

Yes.

Route 12 is worth a mention - until the early 70s, on paper from South Croydon to Willesden Junction (with peak extensions to Park Royal) although I don't think any buses ran the full length of the route then. Even in to the mid 1980s, the route was Norwood Junction - Willesden Junction, although again buses running the full route were a rarity. I have a vague recollection of travelling with parent from Forest Hill, and it took some time for parent to realise at that time of day / week, there weren't any buses from that far south to wherever we were trying to get to, even though that was on the 12 route. I also understand it was the last London route to be scheduled completely manually, as the computer system in place then couldn't handle the number of garages involved.

And 141 from Grove Park to Wood Green (previously to Winchmore Hill) is worth a mention, although again through buses end to end were a rarity, and for some years there was a gap in the middle on Saturdays, as it was split Wood Green - Moorgate and Grove Park - Elephant (think there may have been early morning journeys as far as Farringdon Street for homeward print workers when 'Fleet Street' was still based in and around the area.) Although at a later stage, buses only ran through on Saturdays, bringing Metrobuses in to SE London.

That's another angle (as well as the regulation / reliability argument) for shorter routes in London now - traditionally, many (although not all) of the longer routes had multiple garages along or near the line of route, which is more difficult post privatisation / tendering.

In Thames Valley land -

Route 1 was historically Newbury - Reading - Maidenhead. The Newbury end is broadly now Reading Buses route 1, the Maidenhead end only runs a few journeys on Saturdays as (new) Thames Valley 127

Route 2 was historically Reading - Bracknell - Windsor, and 3 Reading - Wokingham - Camberley. In the 1990s Bee Line era, this had become a group of routes in the 190+ sequence, some extending as far east as Sunningdale and Slough (and briefly via Slough to Heathrow.) Reading - Bracknell is now Reading Buses 4 / X4, east of Bracknell is now (new) Thames Valley territory.

Route 20 was Windsor - Maidenhead - High Wycombe, now split at Maidenhead.

The 1933 London Transport red (central) and green (country) bus areas didn't quite match what became Greater London in 1970. Many country bus / London Country routes have been split around the TFL / shire county boundary - 480 used to be Erith to Gravesend (Valley Drive) but the London end became 428, for example. There must be quite a few others, and similarly some London Transport (central bus) routes that extended beyond Greater London also got cut back - the 279 used to run beyond Waltham Cross to Hammond Street, which I think was the last Routemaster route outside the GLC area.

Although there are a few opposites to that - route 96 extending to Bluewater (along with 428 and 492, which both are descendants of green bus routes.)



Southdown (in some cases joint with Maidstone and District) had some very long routes - including the 'Heathfield Pool' which included (from memory) Tunbridge Wells to Eastbourne and Hastings, and route 122 from Gravesend to Brighton via Tunbridge Wells. I have read that while buses worked through, the bus crews never crossed Tunbridge Wells on route 122 and would drive the other company's buses as part of their duty.

The Gravesend - Medway route of Maidstone and District (then route 26) continued to Sittingbourne, which must be at least 2 routes now.

 

[nw1]

The 409 used to run from Croydon to East Grinstead, and now runs from Selsdon to East Grinstead

Selsdon seems a strange place to terminate, being almost in central Croydon but not quite. Wonder why that is?

More generally it looks like most of the lower 400s were long distance (ish) routes from outer London into surrounding areas of Surrey. I remember the 408 Express from my schooldays.

 

[PaulWC]

The 94 (now T3) was Barmouth - Wrexham, the Chester extension was short lived, most of the routes history it always operated operated Wrexham - Barmouth, & i think the extension to Chester happened was when it was operated by Arriva

At the time of deregulation in 1986, the 94 had a couple of extensions beyond Wrexham, both very short lived. One was to Chester (no idea how often), and on Mondays and Fridays one journey was extended to Crewe. This was probably to connect with trains, but didn't last much further than 1987.

 

[EdinRH]

The Lothian 15 now terminates in Edinburgh City Centre at Waterloo Place, but historically extended into East Lothian. For a brief spell the terminus was Haddington.

 

[rg177]

Go North East's 58 had a phase of running between Hadrian Park and Heworth, originally with brand-new Citaros. It then had a daft couple of years with older Citaro Artics during which time the service north/east of Newcastle was halved.

The Hadrian Park-Newcastle section was then transferred to the 57 (ironically landing us mostly with the same Citaros that were new to the 58) before GNE lost interest again, reliability north of the Tyne plummeted, the evening service was dropped then it became a service in its own right (311) between Hadrian Park and Newcastle.

And so the 11 years or so of strange through running between East Gateshead and North Tyneside died out!

 

[Statto]

5 Mold - Ellesmere Port, was F11 Birkenhead Woodside - Mold, & at one time it was a group of 3 routes, F9 / F10 / F11 Birkenhead Woodside - Denbigh / Loggerheads / Pantymwyn

329 St Helens - Warrington, was Rainford - Warrington & joined by 309 / 319 Southport - Warrington

437 West Kirby - Liverpool, was 37 / 37A Birkenhead Woodside - New Brighton, Merseyside PTE introduced the route in December 85, as a replacement for the 7 / 8/ 28 / 81 / 82, the route was cut short to Birkenhead Woodside - West Kirby in winter 1989, a few changes over the years brought todays route

52 / 52A Liverpool - Netherton, this was much longer extending to Speke as 82 / 82A, until Arriva split the route in Liverpool City Centre

217 Kirkby - Huyton / Halewood, this used to be Liverpool City Centre - Halewood via Kirkby until Stagecoach cut the route

62 Bootle - Penny Lane, used to be Crosby - Penny Lane until Arrive cut the route at Bootle, back in PTE days it used to be 92 Crosby - Halewood via Kirkby & Huyton, but was diverted to Penny Lane at deregulation replacing the old 99

 

[JD2168]

Pronto operated by Stagecoach Mansfield between Chesterfield & Nottingham used to be the 737/747 which ran through to Sheffield via same route as current X17.

A recent one is the 80 it was Sheffield to Chesterfield via Crystal Peaks, Killamarsh & Spinkhill. Stagecoach then withdrew it with Hulleys replacement numbered 80 starting from Crystal Peaks but extending to Holymoorside. After this weekend the Hulleys version is withdrawn & replaced by a new First operated version between Killamarsh & Chesterfield only.

 

[DunsBus]

The Lothian 15 now terminates in Edinburgh City Centre at Waterloo Place, but historically extended into East Lothian. For a brief spell the terminus was Haddington.

For a spell in the early 1990s, the 15 ran between Penicuik and Stoneybank.

 

[gingerheid]

McGills continues to operate a 17 route that is now a local service based around Paisley. The section from Paisley to the Queen Elizabeth hospital is the truncated remains of a Western SMT route from Glasgow to Largs!

 

[WibbleWobble]

In 1977, there was a hourly 39 bus between Liverpool and Tyldesley with two hourly extensions to Manchester during Merseyside PTE and Greater Manchester PTE days, which formed part of a combined 15 minute service with the 317 and 320 between Liverpool-St Helens

Route History

post #119

Nowadays you have to change at St Helens and Leigh if you wanted to travel between Liverpool and Manchester.

That would also fit in with the theme of the discussion as when the 34 came along, the 39 was curtailed to run Leigh - Manchester. It was whittled down to peak time only (in effect as extras to the 35) but later reinstated as a full Monday to Saturday service. It was even the Leigh to Manchester night bus service for a time!

There was also a period where the 35 and 39 were extended to Wigan (replacing the 658 - nowadays 609) before being cut back again to Leigh with the 658 reinstated. I think this was after Atherton depot closed, so made sense from a crewing perspective, although the curtailed version ended up at Bolton instead.

 

[Deerfold]

I know the 90/2 Halifax - Todmorden - Littleborough/Burnley were linked to the 508 Halifax - Leeds route in the 1970s, although I'm not sure how long this lasted.

At deregulation, the 508 was linked to the Halifax - Rishworth / Commons routes (560/2?), while the Halifax - Queensbury - Bradford 576 route got linked to the Halifax - Sowerby Bridge - Hubberton / Steep Lane / Boulderclough group - a bus leaving Bradford showing 'Steep Lane' was not entirely helpful! Both these links were severed after a few years.

The Huddersfield - Halifax 503 also got extended through to Keighley / Bradford via Thornton. I heard this often gave rise to overloading with returning concessionary pass-holders in the afternoon, not helped by being worked almost entirely by single-deckers. There was certainly some fuss when they were split at Halifax: the route to Bradford via Thornton disappeared, and even the Keighley route spent many years in the doldrums.

The 508 once ran as the 15 Leeds - Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Rochdale and the 27 Leeds - Halifax - Ripponden - Rochdale. In the mid-80s the 508 was half-hourly to Leeds - Halifax - Ripoonden - Rishworth with alternate trips continuing to Commons. Commons was as useful in Leeds as Steep Lane was in Bradford as a destination.

The 561 Halifax - Rishworth extended for a Summer on alternate trips to the Trafford Centre.

The 343(/4) from Huddersfield to Halifax and the 556 (current 561/2) from Ripponden to Halifax used to continue evenings and Sundays to Wainstalls.

The 574-579 routes were a mess with no route operating in full in both directions. They did enable my mum to get to a job easily she had briefly in Boothtown whilst living in Sowerby Bridge.

For may years the 502/3/4 Huddersfield to Halifax extended beyond Halifax, the 502 to Keighley, the 503 to Thornton and Bradford and the 504 twice an hour to Illingworth Riley Lane. The 502 was often a double decker in the late 90s. I sometimes caught the 503 home from Bradford to Halifax as a friend lived in Thornton so we could catch the same bus.

The 662 Bradford to Keighley used to extend as the 663/4/5 to Oakworth/Stanbury/Oxenhope along the routes of the current B3/1/2 and as the 666/7/8 to Skipton, now the 66 (with some bits covered by the 78A.

The 62 Ilkley to Keighley, previously the 762/765, previously the 712, used to extend to Oakworth.

The M4 Keighley to Burnley, previously the 25, before that the 21/22 used to extend to Accrington or Padiham (and before that didn't as the 669).

The X43 Manchester to Burnley and Nelson has twice extended to Skipton with the M6 currently replacing that part of the route. It also extended to Keighley from Burnley at one point.

The 622/6 Bingley/Baildon to Bradford used to extend from Eldwick to Bingley and then across Bradford along the routes of the current 686/7/8.

The current X63/363 Bradford to Huddersfield used to continue as the 365 throughout to Oldham and Manchester.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The 622/6 Bingley/Baildon to Bradford used to extend from Eldwick to Bingley and then across Bradford along the routes of the current 686/7/8.

At some point in the 1990s, some journeys on the 622 started back at Huddersfield bus station. Remember seeing it on the boards and thinking "where the heck is Eldwick?" Before seeing a former Gold Rider Olympian in Bradford Traveller colours pull up to the stand. Naturally I went for a ride!

The current Arriva Yorkshire 268 from Bradford to Wakefield used to run through to Sheffield in West Riding & Yorkshire Traction days. Think it had an X prefix for some of that time.

Most of the routes that are now Team Pennine's Denby Darts used to run through to Barnsley and in some cases Sheffield. There was a much more varied selection of routes back then linking the various villages, though some only ran a few times a day or even week.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The current Arriva Yorkshire 268 from Bradford to Wakefield used to run through to Sheffield in West Riding & Yorkshire Traction days. Think it had an X prefix for some of that time.

Think you're conflating two services.

The traditional 56, became the 256 and then the 268 Bradford to Dewsbury. The Bradford to Sheffield service was the X33.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The 562 Halifax - Rishworth extended for a Summer on alternate trips to the Trafford Centre.

I'd not been aware of that, but I should have remembered it went as far as Manchester Piccadilly Gardens at one time - I was given route learning on it in 1989 after I passed my PSV Class1 at Halifax!

 

[Robertj21a]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned Southdown 700 from Brighton to Southsea - 4hrs each way, 15mins frequency, all double deck.
Or Southdown 122 Brighton to Gravesend - 4 hrs each way, hourly, DD, joint with Maidstone & District.

 

[Typhoon]

Selsdon seems a strange place to terminate, being almost in central Croydon but not quite. Wonder why that is?

Would it be anything to do with finance, it not being a 'red bus'? I went on it a few times a few years ago (outside of peaks), it wasn't exactly crowded on any occasion.

 

[Man of Kent]

The Gravesend - Medway route of Maidstone and District (then route 26) continued to Sittingbourne, which must be at least 2 routes now.

It was originally Dartford-Faversham, but lost the Dartford-Gravesend section to the LPTB circa 1933/34. It later became 326, which number is still used for the Chalkwell Sittingbourne-Chatham service; Chatham-Gravesend is now 190 (a renumbering of 136 that replaced the 326 on this section) while Sittingbourne-Faversham was covered by Maidstone & District/Arriva 333, until the latter abandoned it and it is now part of Stagecoach South East X3.

 

[ian1944]

In the 70s Central SMT ran the 242/3 between Peebles and Glasgow, taking about 2 hours 45 minutes. Central had an outstation at Peebles to operate early westbound services, but otherwise buses were from Carluke garage. SMT/Scottish Omnibuses/Eastern Scottish (I may not have this quite right) had a garage in Peebles but took no part in the service. Over time, the service to/from Peebles was cut back to Hamilton, Lanark then Biggar, and the route number has completely disappeared. The complete trip would now require two changes, Borders between Peebles and Biggar, Stuart's on to Lanark and another Stuart's service on to Glasgow. As an oddity, there is still an outstaion in Peebles (Borders) and a garage in Carluke (Stuart's).

I remember the days of the complete route, though never took it. The current information is courtesy of Alan Hall.

 

[GCH100]

That would also fit in with the theme of the discussion as when the 34 came along, the 39 was curtailed to run Leigh - Manchester. It was whittled down to peak time only (in effect as extras to the 35) but later reinstated as a full Monday to Saturday service. It was even the Leigh to Manchester night bus service for a time!

There was also a period where the 35 and 39 were extended to Wigan (replacing the 658 - nowadays 609) before being cut back again to Leigh with the 658 reinstated. I think this was after Atherton depot closed, so made sense from a crewing perspective, although the curtailed version ended up at Bolton instead.

The extensions to Wigan of the 35 and 39 took place in 1996/7 about a year before Atherton depot closed on 7th February 1998, the idea might though have been to see if it was practicle for Wigan to operate the 35 and 39 when Atherton closed, but obviously traffic delays on both routes interacted on timings so it was restored back to the original 658 and 35 and 39 before Atherton closed, Atherton operated on all these routes throughout this time, and Wigan and Bolton ran no journeys.

I'm fairly certain that there was a route (10 or 710?) that ran from Folkestone to Ashford (roughly what is now the 10) then on to Maidstone (rougly the 10X) then on to Borough Green, some at least going on to Sevenoaks. It was when M&D withdrew from Maidstone and M&D and East Kent were working closely together.

Midland Red used to have quite a few long routes:

144: Birmingham - Bromsgrove - Droitwich - Worcester - Malvern Wells (now lost the start and end legs)
192 Birmingham - Halesowen - Kidderminster - Ludlow (now just the middle section)

The 192/X92 actually operated later on from Ludlow to Leominster and Hereford as well, replacing part of the 435 Shrewsbury - Ludlow - Hereford service.

 

[Magdalia]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the Cambridge busway. Before the pandemic route A ran hourly to Royston (but labelled as route D) and route B ran hourly to Peterborough. There were also peak hour journeys on route A to/from Somersham, Ramsey and Chatteris.