Upgrading TfL Zip Card age 5-10 to age 11-15

[Taunton]

Presumably comes for most London children at the 11th birthday, to get a different TfL Zip card for child fares. However I cannot see any TfL website option specifically for this upgrade linking one to the other. Is there one? I'm also wondering if TfL issue email alerts as the time approaches, with such an option.

There's a video (also on YouTube, link here) about applying from scratch for the new card, but makes no reference to you already having the younger one :

 

[avid2424]

You need to read the TfL web page re the 5 to 10 zip oyster - which has the paragraph headed expiry

It seems no update, but start again from scratch

 

[island]

There is no upgrading, a new card must be purchased using the normal process.

 

[Somewhere]

You cannot apply for a new one until after 1st August before the end of September when their current one expires, even though it doesn't state that anywhere.
TfL being their usual helpful selves, you cannot get a 16/17 Zip Card until after a child has turned 16!

 

[Deerfold]

TfL being their usual helpful selves, you cannot get a 16/17 Zip Card until after a child has turned 16!

Presumably because an 11-15 card remains valid until the end of September following their birthday.

 

[Somewhere]

Presumably because an 11-15 card remains valid until the end of September following their birthday.

Indeed. But if they haven't got a 11-15 Zip, then you've got to get one for one month's use, or pay adult fares

 

[Deerfold]

Indeed. But if they haven't got a 11-15 Zip, then you've got to get one for one month's use, or pay adult fares

That may be a problem, but for a very small number of children.

 

[Somewhere]

That may be a problem, but for a very small number of children.

Well, once you're 16, you should be able to obtain a 16/17 Zip Card

 

[Deerfold]

Well, once you're 16, you should be able to obtain a 16/17 Zip Card

As you've said, you can.

Indeed. But if they haven't got a 11-15 Zip, then you've got to get one for one month's use, or pay adult fares

Do they take a month to issue?

 

[MikeWh]

You cannot apply for a new one until after 1st August before the end of September when their current one expires, even though it doesn't state that anywhere.
TfL being their usual helpful selves, you cannot get a 16/17 Zip Card until after a child has turned 16!

One of the biggest uses of zip cards (11-15 and 16+) is travel to/from school/college. TfL take the view that it is better to align these cards expiry dates with the academic year. The reason why it is the end of September is to allow for correspondance with the school if necessary. It certainly avoids suddenly needing to pay adult fares just as you are approacing a-levels.

Indeed. But if they haven't got a 11-15 Zip, then you've got to get one for one month's use, or pay adult fares

The 11-15 zip card offers such good discounts that it is usually worthwhile even for a month. Unlimited off-peak travel throughout London for less than £2 is outstanding in my view.

Well, once you're 16, you should be able to obtain a 16/17 Zip Card

If a 16-year-old is still eligible for an 11-15 zip card then they would be mad not to make use of it.

 

[island]

Presumably because an 11-15 card remains valid until the end of September following their birthday.

More specifically, it is valid until the end of September in the year after the child turns 16. So a child born on (for example) 01•JNR•07 who is now 16 and 10 months odd will still have use of their card until 30•SEP•24.

The upper cutoff for applying is slightly different: the child must be under 16 at application, or if applying in September to December, have turned 16 since the 1st of September.

 

[talldave]

TfL don't appear to have given any thought to a smooth transition between different cards, which is weird when it's a use case that applies to 100% of 5-10 card holders. No surprises there from such a useless organisation.

Their website gives no indication of whether you can apply in advance of the child's 11th birthday - useless.

Their website also spouts c**p about needing a different email address for the photocard account. This is not true - doubly useless.

I'm interested to know how you get on, as I'll be in that position in a couple of years. Fortunately, my son at least has a passport (from another brain numbing experience on a useless government website) so would be able to skip the Post Office shenanigans next time around!

 

[Snow1964]

You need to read the TfL web page re the 5 to 10 zip oyster - which has the paragraph headed expiry

It seems no update, but start again from scratch

Correct, they are treated as separate products, bought independently, not an upgradeable linked product.

The 5 to 10 oyster is not that common, many London children never have it, but start with 11-15 version. Even though 5-10 is valid year longer the numbers issued is something like fifth of the 11-15 version

 

[Deerfold]

TfL don't appear to have given any thought to a smooth transition between different cards, which is weird when it's a use case that applies to 100% of 5-10 card holders. No surprises there from such a useless organisation. I guess they're all childless tree huggers sipping on robin-spit lattes with no experience of real life?

Well, there's quite a long time when you can use either card. Does that not help a smooth transition. Does insulting TfL employees help here (though I'm not sure I really understand the insult)?

Their website gives no indication of whether you can apply in advance of the child's 11th birthday - useless.

Their website also spouts c**p about needing a different email address for the photocard account. This is not true - doubly useless.

With no quotes or links it's hard to comment. A different email address than what?

I'm interested to know how you get on, as I'll be in that position in a couple of years. Fortunately, my son at least has a passport (from another brain numbing experience on a useless government website) so would be able to skip the Post Office shenanigans next time around!

I've found that applying for passports recently seems to have got a lot easier than I remember when applying for mine around 7 years ago.

 

[MikeWh]

TfL don't appear to have given any thought to a smooth transition between different cards, which is weird when it's a use case that applies to 100% of 5-10 card holders. No surprises there from such a useless organisation. I guess they're all childless tree huggers sipping on robin-spit lattes with no experience of real life?

you seem to have a rather massive chip on your shoulder.

Their website gives no indication of whether you can apply in advance of the child's 11th birthday - useless.

Not true. From https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/11-15-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55575

Children aged over 10 years and 11 months, and under 16 on 31 August can get an 11-15 Zip Oyster photocard.

It also states that the photocard takes about a week to arrive. My experience was actually more like 3-4 days.

Their website also spouts c**p about needing a different email address for the photocard account. This is not true - doubly useless.

Are you sure? When I applied for my 60+ photocard I had to use a different email address to the one I have my contactless cards on. I can't remember which email I used for my kids zip cards, but it may well have been different again.

 

[talldave]

Well, there's quite a long time when you can use either card. Does that not help a smooth transition.

Not true. From https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/11-15-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55575

It also states that the photocard takes about a week to arrive. My experience was actually more like 3-4 days.

Apologies, I stand corrected - I didn't see the 10yrs 11 months statement when looking it up on my tablet. I agree on the speed of receipt.

With no quotes or links it's hard to comment. A different email address than what?

On https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard it says:

I live in a London borough
To apply for a 5-10 Zip Oyster photocard, create or sign in to your photocard web account. (You must use a different email address from any contactless and Oyster account for a standard adult Oyster card.)

That's not true.

Are you sure? When I applied for my 60+ photocard I had to use a different email address to the one I have my contactless cards on. I can't remember which email I used for my kids zip cards, but it may well have been different again.

Very sure. I've just logged into both my accounts to check. Both use the same email address. I even have vague memories that when I set up the Photocard account I got bounced between a couple of pages which even made reference to the fact that you no longer needed to use a different email address - hence I tried it and it worked.

The sites I refer to are:
https://contactless.tfl.gov.uk/ (login validates via https://account.tfl.gov.uk/ with SMS 2FA)
https://photocardportal.tfl.gov.uk/ (no login validation)

I've found that applying for passports recently seems to have got a lot easier than I remember when applying for mine around 7 years ago.

I agree it should be easy, but the "getting someone to certify that your child is who he is" bit became a nightmare - even his headmistress was unable to do that bit. And the photo uploading algorithm is simply weird - upload a perfectly exposed image and it rejects it, upload an underexposed version of the identical shot (bracketed exposures) and it accepts it.

Does insulting TfL employees help here (though I'm not sure I really understand the insult)?

you seem to have a rather massive chip on your shoulder.

My loathing of TfL is not restricted to RailUK forums. It's caused by their hatred of drivers and particularly ULEZ (and the lies surrounding it) which discriminate against lower income families. Those without non-compliant cars living through this nightmare won't understand.
It's not just TfL I loath either - Croydon Council also hate car drivers, but I fought back against the lies they were trying to use to introduce a "School Street" at my son's school and they backed off and scrapped the plans. It would have resulted in gridlock and more pollution all around us and severely disrupted bus services too.
if you work for an organisation that hates car drivers - don't expect them to like you.

 

[Deerfold]

My loathing of TfL is not restricted to RailUK forums. It's caused by their hatred of drivers and particularly ULEZ (and the lies surrounding it) which discriminate against lower income families. Those without non-compliant cars living through this nightmare won't understand.
It's not just TfL I loath either - Croydon Council also hate car drivers, but I fought back against the lies they were trying to use to introduce a "School Street" at my son's school and they backed off and scrapped the plans. It would have resulted in gridlock and more pollution all around us and severely disrupted bus services too.
if you work for an organisation that hates car drivers - don't expect them to like you.

Do they hate car drivers, or are they just trying to create a bit of space where people can be free from cars? I'm all for any organisation doing that. When I worked at TfL, most of my colleagues were car drivers. I doubt they (individually or as an organisation) hate drivers. Some drivers seem to take any restriction on what they can do with their car very personally.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

No surprises there from such a useless organisation. I guess they're all childless tree huggers sipping on robin-spit lattes with no experience of real life?

When I worked near the team who set up the various Photocard schemes, several of them had children of the relevant age. You'd sometimes see their offsprings' photos on example Photocards, and they were perfectly aware of "real life".

 

[talldave]

When I worked near the team who set up the various Photocard schemes, several of them had children of the relevant age. You'd sometimes see their offsprings' photos on example Photocards, and they were perfectly aware of "real life".

So why did they (a) create the stupidity of a system that required a different email address and then (b) implement the sensible approach of not requiring a different email address, whilst still telling people they did need a different email address?

It would be difficult to make the situation any more ludicrous.

But I'm apparently at fault for criticism of their stupidity/incompetence (interested to know which it is).

 

[Deerfold]

So why did they (a) create the stupidity of a system that required a different email address and then (b) implement the sensible approach of not requiring a different email address, whilst still telling people they did need a different email address?

It would be difficult to make the situation any more ludicrous.

But I'm apparently at fault for criticism of their stupidity/incompetence (interested to know which it is).

They appear to have not updated their website about an improvement. That's not good, but not something terribly uncommon. Have you contacted them to suggest they do? I'm not sure what's ludicrous about it.

I think describing them as stupid and incompetent comes across as being unnecessarily beligerent.