Using a fake Railcard

[cb358]

Hello

I need some advice! Ive been caught using a photoshoped railcard. It was my old expired railcard with the date changed. I was caught on the train at London Bridge. Then was issued with a Govia witness statement. I gave all my details including address.
Does anyone know what the consequence might be??

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@cb358. Welcome to the forum.

Oh dear, you're in a bit of a mess. Possible you'll be reported for prosecution, taken to court, found guilty, and end up with a court conviction and a fine.

You might just, if you're lucky, and engage positively with the process, be able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement" in which you end up paying the train company a sum of money to not proceed to court. This course if action is not guaranteed, though.

Likely you'd be asked to pay the full, undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare, for each and every occasion when you've bought/used inappropriately discounted tickets. Could soon mount up and easy enough for them to check your ticket purchasing history if you've bought them online with the likes of Trainline.

In addition, you'll be asked to pay a three figure sum towards the train company's admin and investigation costs.

Which train company's revenue protection staff stopped you, by the way? GTR (Thameslink)?

 

[TheJester]

Worst case - possible fraud conviction, using a false instrument.
Best case - if you engage positively with GTR an out of court settlement of the total cost of the fares evaded using the fake railcard (tickets you bought with it won’t count), so calculate the full anytime single (x2 if you made a return journey) cost of the fares evaded plus perhaps £150ish for GTR’s investigation costs.

They will write to you - reply and be honest and contrite.

 

[Haywain]

a so-called "out of court settlement"

It is called an out of court settlement because that's exactly what it is.

 

[cb358]

@cb358. Welcome to the forum.

Oh dear, you're in a bit of a mess. Possible you'll be reported for prosecution, taken to court, found guilty, and end up with a court conviction and a fine.

You might just, if you're lucky, and engage positively with the process, be able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement" in which you end up paying the train company a sum of money to not proceed to court. This course if action is not guaranteed, though.

Likely you'd be asked to pay the full, undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare, for each and every occasion when you've bought/used inappropriately discounted tickets. Could soon mount up and easy enough for them to check your ticket purchasing history if you've bought them online with the likes of Trainline.

In addition, you'll be asked to pay a three figure sum towards the train company's admin and investigation costs.

Which train company's revenue protection staff stopped you, by the way? GTR (Thameslink)?

I got stopped by GTR Thameslink. They also spelt my name wrong and put the wrong date of birth even tho they saw all details on my phone, will that affect anything in any way?

Worst case - possible fraud conviction, using a false instrument.
Best case - if you engage positively with GTR an out of court settlement of the total cost of the fares evaded using the fake railcard (tickets you bought with it won’t count), so calculate the full anytime single (x2 if you made a return journey) cost of the fares evaded plus perhaps £150ish for GTR’s investigation costs.

They will write to you - reply and be honest and contrite.

Do you know in how long they will write to me since the witness report issued? Also ive been using the fake railcard for about 1-2years should i admit to that? And ive been using the trainline app but haven’t made an account on it can they still track all the tickets ive purchased?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

They also spelt my name wrong and put the wrong date of birth even tho they saw all details on my phone, will that affect anything in any way?

No - it won't get you out of anything. As long as it's reasonably clear that it was you they were talking to then a misspelt name and wrong date of birth won't shield you.

Do you know in how long they will write to me since the witness report issued?

In practical terms, the railways have up to six months to get in touch with you.

Also ive been using the fake railcard for about 1-2years should i admit to that?

Two things come from this: it may take the railway some time to investigate all of this, so you may have to wait quite some time for a reply. Also, there's a principle in British law that you don't have to incriminate yourself. So if the railway doesn't ask you about how long you've been using the fake card for, then you don't need to tell them. Against that, there's another principle that you should not lie. So don't say 'I've never done this before' - just say nothing about previous use unless they ask you.

And ive been using the trainline app but haven’t made an account on it can they still track all the tickets ive purchased?

Our understanding is that they will be able to. You'll have been putting in details of your bank card to get the ticket each time, and probably a phone number or email address for the ticket to be sent to you. So even without an account, they'll be able to link your tickets together. And it's also our understanding that Trainline will share this information with GTR.

They will write to you - reply and be honest and contrite.

This is the best advice that you can get. While we try not to be judgemental here, and while GTR are often willing to settle out of court, given that you have now told us that you have been doing this for 1 - 2 years, it does seem to me that GTR may decide that prosecution is the right way forward: faking your railcard is not something that can be disguised as an accident, and depending how often you travel the loss to GTR in train fares could be substantial. So you really need to work hard at making sure that GTR understand that you won't do it again, as otherwise they may very well take you to court.

 

[30907]

To add to Fawkes Cat's post just now - the chances are that the details of the original railcard can still be read electronically, and if so GTR will want to examine your travel history back to the expiry date of the original card.

Come back when the letter arrives - at this stage you don't need a solicitor, but depending on how it is worded you might need to consider it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@cb358. Can you advise what the typical journey was, to/from/via London Bridge, presumably? Also, how many times was the journey made using inappropriately discounted tickets together with the moody railcard? Are we talking dozens of times, hundreds of times, or more? This will help determine just how much is potentially at stake. Reckon that it might just have been much cheaper to have shelled out £30 to legitimately renew the expired railcard. (Moving forward, can you still do so?)

 

[cb358]

@cb358. Can you advise what the typical journey was, to/from/via London Bridge, presumably? Also, how many times was the journey made using inappropriately discounted tickets together with the moody railcard? Are we talking dozens of times, hundreds of times, or more? This will help determine just how much is potentially at stake. Reckon that it might just have been much cheaper to have shelled out £30 to legitimately renew the expired railcard. (Moving forward, can you still do so?)

The journey was from Selhurst to London Bridge and it was made about 5 times a week. But other journeys were made all around london as i travel a lot for work using the railcard. Probably too many to count.

 

[TheJester]

To be harsh, you’re going to need to count them to work out how much you owe.
You need to do this as GTR will do a calculation (if they are willing to offer you an out of court settlement) and you need to validate their calculation is correct. From the sounds of things they could be asking for thousands of pounds, so you need to work it out.

 

[cb358]

To be harsh, you’re going to need to count them to work out how much you owe.
You need to do this as GTR will do a calculation (if they are willing to offer you an out of court settlement) and you need to validate their calculation is correct. From the sounds of things they could be asking for thousands of pounds, so you need to work it out.

Do i add up the whole price of the ticket or only the other half of the price, as the railcard was 50% off tickets?

 

[simonw]

Do i add up the whole price of the ticket or only the other half of the price, as the railcard was 50% off tickets?

The full price. The company will ignore anything you have paid.

 

[TheJester]

As you didn’t have a valid railcard the tickets you bought are invalid and the money you paid for them doesn’t count.

You need to calculate the full anytime single cost (x2 if you made a return journey) of each trip you made with the fraudulent railcard.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

An undiscounted Anytime Day Single from Selhurst into London Bridge/London Terminals (if that's the journey in question) is currently £6.70 one way (was £6.40 before the 3rd March 2024 fare increase). Multiple journeys made over an extended period will very quickly add up.

 

[TheJester]

So if you’ve been using the fraudulant railcard for 18 months to get a discount on Selhurst to London Bridge for 18 months you could be looking at a repayment calculation of around £3500.

 

[AlterEgo]

And ive been using the trainline app but haven’t made an account on it can they still track all the tickets ive purchased?

Yes.

If they bother to check this then it could get very expensive for you

 

[Haywain]

Do i add up the whole price of the ticket or only the other half of the price, as the railcard was 50% off tickets?

At what time of day have you been making these journeys?

 

[cb358]

At what time of day have you been making these journeys?

Usually 9am-11am then return 6pm-8pm ishh.

 

[Camsus]

I assume you were using a Selhurst - London ticket with your expired railcard and not buying short tickets as well?

 

[Deafdoggie]

They spelt my name wrong and put the wrong date of birth even tho they saw all details on my phone, will that affect anything in any way?

In short, no. But, I've known this happen to people and if the error is uncorrected then that's the name and DOB used on any conviction. Thus a DBS check in the correct name & DOB is clear! I would not, however, either recommend or rely on this!! But, as I assume you meant can you get off on this technicality, the answer is a definite no.

 

[123r234]

Hello

I need some advice! Ive been caught using a photoshoped railcard. It was my old expired railcard with the date changed. I was caught on the train at London Bridge. Then was issued with a Govia witness statement. I gave all my details including address.
Does anyone know what the consequence might be??

Hello I’m in a similar situation I hope you can get yours resolved! Would appreciate if you / others on your thread could shed light on my situation too

 

[Gloster]

Hello I’m in a similar situation I hope you can get yours resolved! Would appreciate if you / others on your thread could shed light on my situation too

Please start your own thread. It is forum policy to have only one problem in each thread: this avoids confusion and allows the advice to be tailored to your situation as no two problems are exactly the same.

 

[123r234]

Please start your own thread. It is forum policy to have only one problem in each thread: this avoids confusion and allows the advice to be tailored to your situation as no two problems are exactly the same.

Apologies will delete this, waiting for approval on my thread