WCML Feb weekend closures at Preston

[AndrewE]

West Coast main line closure for Preston station track upgrades - Rail UK

West Coast main line closure for Preston station track upgrades - Permanent Way

railuk.com

The complexity of upgrading switches and crossings means the railway will need to close completely between Wigan North Western and Lancaster on:

• Saturday 18 and Sunday 19 February
• Saturday 25 and Sunday 26 February
• Saturday 4 and Sunday 5 March
• Sunday 12 March

This also means no trains will serve Preston station at all on those dates.

Avanti West Coast staff will be on hand to help passengers stay on the move through rail replacement bus services which be in operation between Wigan North Western, Preston and Lancaster*.

says for 3 full weekends and a Sunday no trains at all through Preston...
and looking at NR journey planner, every single Avanti train journey is split between 2 buses Wigan to Preston and Preston to Lancaster. Hasn't it occurred to them that through passengers don't need to go into Preston to change (losing yet more time and taking more buses for the same work) in the process?

If they are providing enough buses to cope with Pendolinos full of people, surely they realise that shuttling the through passengers direct between Wigan and Lancaster will save them bus-hours and money?

You have to wonder whether the people planning it ever travel by train, or have any concept of minimising passengers' inconvenience...

 

[exbrel]

minimising passenger inconvenience is way way down their list of priorities... and i don't think they have ever seen a train, never mind traveled on one.

 

[zwk500]

What level of manager do you think is planning the replacement bus services to never have seen a train?

 

[AndrewE]

What level of manager do you think is planning the replacement bus services to never have seen a train?

What do you think of the brainpower of someone who can't see that a through (northbound) journey should not have to involve diverting off the motorway into Preston, changing buses then getting back out to the motorway to travel on to Lancaster?

Pendolinos full of people will probably justify 3 or 4 coaches to Preston and 6 or 7 non-stop right through. When I travel on the WCML only a small minority get off at Preston.

 

[jawr256]

The Wigan-Preston and Lancaster-Preston buses in the timetable are listed as operated by Northern/TPE, replacing their services, and continue through Preston to Blackpool, Buckshaw or Manchester. Hence is the issue just that Avanti buses haven't been added to the timetable yet, given how last-minute their planning is these days?

 

[AndrewE]

The Wigan-Preston and Lancaster-Preston buses in the timetable are listed as operated by Northern/TPE, replacing their services, and continue through Preston to Blackpool, Buckshaw or Manchester. Hence is the issue just that Avanti buses haven't been added to the timetable yet, given how last-minute their planning is these days?

I suppose it could be.
Strangely, the NR journeyplanner now tells me to go by train to Manchester and get a RRB from there.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Doubtless London/Birmingham/Manchester/Liverpool-Scotland passengers will be asked to go via York.
The remaining areas with no option but to use the bus replacements are not small, but not large either.
It isn't a main holiday time for Blackpool and the Lakes.
Costs would undoubtably be limited in the current climate.
There will be benefits from the work being done, but probably nothing worth a headline other than "more reliable journeys".
Preston, like Carlisle, did not see any local improvements during the big WCRM project, and the skids are under the promised "HS2 upgrade" to the layout.

 

[AndrewE]

Doubtless London/Birmingham/Manchester/Liverpool-Scotland passengers will be asked to go via York.

London people might be OK, but all my XC journeys have been overcrowded anyway, and as for Manchester pax travelling via York...!

The remaining areas with no option but to use the bus replacements are not small, but not large either.

I would have thought that trying not to displace WCML passengers onto other routes would be sensible.

 

[ainsworth74]

Doubtless London/Birmingham/Manchester/Liverpool-Scotland passengers will be asked to go via York.

They won't be on 18/19 February. ECML is shut south of St Neots...

 

[The Planner]

Its a re-ballast of the S&C at Preston. In terms of the buses, clearly they don't have the advance data to decide if a through bus is the best thing to do yet.

They won't be on 18/19 February. ECML is shut south of St Neots...

Yeah, that has been spotted as apparently LNE chucked that in after the Preston blocks were agreed and signed off from what I hear.

 

[30907]

I suppose it could be.
Strangely, the NR journeyplanner now tells me to go by train to Manchester and get a RRB from there.

Whereas the NRE and Avanti engineering works pages tell me the arrangements are not yet in place.
I think it is highly unlikely that Avanti are expecting their passengers to use Northern's hourly all-stations bus from Wigan, whatever NRE may say.

 

[Silver Cobra]

They won't be on 18/19 February. ECML is shut south of St Neots...

Add to that the reduced service between Kings Cross and Peterborough for both the weekends of the 25th/26th Feb and 4th/5th March due to diversions via Hertford North, so spare capacity on LNER services will be limited on both of those weekends.

 

[yorksrob]

What would be handy would be if Northern could extend some Manchester- Clitheroe services to Lancaster via the Little North Western.

 

[DarloRich]

so we think this might not be a conspiracy of the stupid then and perhaps more details still being worked out situation?

 

[Bertie the bus]

What would be handy would be if Northern could extend some Manchester- Clitheroe services to Lancaster via the Little North Western.

Handy for whom? Traipsing across Manchester to catch a train that would probably take at least 1 hour longer than a bus from Wigan - Lancaster doesn't sound very handy to me.

 

[yorksrob]

I have friends in the Wigan Atheron area who travel North to Lancaster regularly. They'd probably go from Bolton.

 

[zwk500]

I have friends in the Wigan Atheron area who travel North to Lancaster regularly. They'd probably go from Bolton.

So that's half a dozen people then. Well worth using scant resources (drivers, trains and capacity) to run a train for.

 

[yorksrob]

So that's half a dozen people then. Well worth using scant resources (drivers, trains and capacity) to run a train for.

Well, considering the train will start from manchester, and there are generally train loads of passengers travelling between Manchester and Lancaster, you might find more than a dozen passengers.

 

[zwk500]

Well, considering the train will start from manchester, and there are generally train loads of passengers travelling between Manchester and Lancaster, you might find more than a dozen passengers.

Not by the time you've gone via the Lune Valley.

 

[IrishDave]

Yeah, that has been spotted as apparently LNE chucked that in after the Preston blocks were agreed and signed off from what I hear.

The LNE block for Week 47 (18/19 Feb) at EAS v1 was just Wood Green-Langley (i.e. Alexandra Palace-Stevenage exclusive), so the Hertford Loop would have been available for diversions. It was extended north to Hitchin between v3 and v4, and evidently no-one at LNE thought to check with NW&C that that was okay...

 

[ainsworth74]

so we think this might not be a conspiracy of the stupid then and perhaps more details still being worked out situation?

That was my take away. Though it's symptomatic of the planning issues at the moment that we're a little over three weeks out from a major piece of engineering work and the full plan has not been uploaded. Arguably even worse a partial plan has been uploaded instead!

 

[The Planner]

The LNE block for Week 47 (18/19 Feb) at EAS v1 was just Wood Green-Langley (i.e. Alexandra Palace-Stevenage exclusive), so the Hertford Loop would have been available for diversions. It was extended north to Hitchin between v3 and v4, and evidently no-one at LNE thought to check with NW&C that that was okay...

I expect there could well have been an element of Top Trumps assumed as well "our job is more important than yours", it has happened in the past.

 

[Scotrail88]

What works are being done at Preston?
Simple renewals or will we see any benefits overall?

 

[yorksrob]

Not by the time you've gone via the Lune Valley.

About an hour, fifteen manchester to Clitheroe. 45 mins Hellifield - Lancaster. Perhaps twenty mins for the middle bit.

I wonder how 2.5 hours direct compares with faffing around on two buses.

 

[30907]

About an hour, fifteen manchester to Clitheroe. 45 mins Hellifield - Lancaster. Perhaps twenty mins for the middle bit.

I wonder how 2.5 hours direct compares with faffing around on two buses.

It's two hours northbound, 1h 35 southbound on a direct bus (timed to call at Preston, but why the difference I know not).

 

[yorksrob]

It's two hours northbound, 1h 35 southbound on a direct bus (timed to call at Preston, but why the difference I know not).

I think a good number of people would prefer the train.

 

[The Planner]

What works are being done at Preston?
Simple renewals or will we see any benefits overall?

Its a re-ballast of the S&C at Preston.

Renewals. Its not an enhancement job.

 

[greyman42]

Could they not drag them over the Settle to Carlisle?

 

[6Gman]

Could they not drag them over the Settle to Carlisle?

No.

Not without a lot of route learning/ conducting - and drag with what?

 

[AndrewE]

No.

Of course they could - Unless you know something about clearances that would preclude it.

Not without a lot of route learning/ conducting - and drag with what?

So who threw away the diversionary route knowledge?
And why not drag with all the Thunderbirds?