WCML Summer extras

[dk1]

I see today & through until early September on Mondays to Saturdays, Virgin Trains have introduced/extended some additional workings.

10.30 Euston-Lancaster Extended to Carlisle
10.45 Carlisle-Euston Additional train to relieve & speed up the busy 09.40 Glasgow-Euston

Just wondered...
1. Where does the Pendo/Voyager come from to form the 10.45 ex-Carlisle?
2. Where does the Pendo/Voyager go after forming the 10.30 ex-Euston?
3. What now forms the 13.39 Lancaster-Euston (return working of the 10.30 down)?

In addition, as other years several stock swaps are taking place to allow Pendolinos to cover some heavilly loaded Birmingham-Scotland services. Some are extensions of the Euston-W.Mids route.

 

[87031]

apparantly the pretendolino is gonna be used all week now but i aint sure as too which of the additional trains, ive heard a rumour its on a Lancaster train then on Friday it wrks the usual 1846 from Euston. Only what someone posted on a another Forum

 

[ukrob]

Is coach G in Pendolinos being declassified again this year?

 

[dk1]

Both 09.40 ex-Glasgow & 10.45 ex-Carlisle performed well with Euston reached at 13.58 4-early & 14.05 7 early respectivley .

 

[bengolding]

There is no 13:39 from Lancaster to Euston. The 11:40 Glasgow to Euston now calls additionally at Lancaster, Wigan and Warrington, adding 10 more minutes to the usual non-stop journey time from Preston to Euston. For some reason, it seems that the 10:30 from Euston to Carlisle remains non-reservable i.e. no advance tickets are available on it.

Coach G is not declassified this year. First Class loadings on my peak time Pendolino were dire last Thursday yet Standard appeared to be very busy. I guess VT decide to declassify G on a train by train basis depending on how busy Standard is.

 

[Mr Spock]

Not only coach G but the whole of the 11.30 Euston - Glasgow train was declassified last Friday, after we left Euston. Guard came through endorsing first class tickets and telling them that they would get a 100% refund by getting an application form from their destination and sending it off with the tickets.

Chap near me had a Traveller free ticket and was not impressed, guard said that he could not tell him what would happen as it would be upto customer services.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

They should never be allowed to declassify 1st class, people have paid extra (double) for it, why should they put up with the "riff raff" on cheap standard class tickets.

It's about time that for busy trains like that they had boarding passes, so only those who have tickets & reservations for that service can board. I mean you wouldn't be allowed to do this with a long haul flight, so why do it on a train.

 

[ukrob]

They should never be allowed to declassify 1st class, people have paid extra (double) for it, why should they put up with the "riff raff" on cheap standard class tickets.

What about the "riff raff" who have cheap 1st class tickets which were cheaper than the standard tickets?

Should you have to pass a test to see if you are upper class before you board? What a load of rubbish - get over yourself.

And if you read what was said, they first class passengers would get a refund anyway, which is extremely fair.

 

[The Planner]

They should never be allowed to declassify 1st class, people have paid extra (double) for it, why should they put up with the "riff raff" on cheap standard class tickets.

They dont though, they tell first class passengers to move to a different coach and more often than not remove everything off the tables in the de-classified coach and the white head rests on Pendos.

 

[Geezertronic]

I've only ever been on one Pendo where they declassified the whole train and that was when they cancelled the 1903 Euston-Birmingham New Street and ran the 1843 Euston-Crewe (via Birmingham) 20 minutes late.

I was ok as I had a seat reservation (on the 1843) and legged it to the train to get my seat, but there was a lot of people standing on that train even when they announced the whole train was declassified.

 

[dk1]

For some reason, it seems that the 10:30 from Euston to Carlisle remains non-reservable i.e. no advance tickets are available on it.

Should be reservable as was previously a Lancaster terminator. Know somebody using this train to Preston tommorow (albeit on an 'anytime' ticket) so will ask them to check.

 

[Mr Spock]

They dont though, they tell first class passengers to move to a different coach and more often than not remove everything off the tables in the de-classified coach and the white head rests on Pendos.

That is the usual procedure but this is the second time that a complete train has been declassified when I have been on it without moving first class passengers first.

 

[Flying Snail]

They should never be allowed to declassify 1st class, people have paid extra (double) for it, why should they put up with the "riff raff" on cheap standard class tickets.

It's about time that for busy trains like that they had boarding passes, so only those who have tickets & reservations for that service can board. I mean you wouldn't be allowed to do this with a long haul flight, so why do it on a train.

Then you would have the situation where those with the cheapest Advance tickets are given priority over those with the most expensive Anytime tickets that many shell out extra for to have the flexibility of taking whichever train they need to at short notice.

And if you read what was said, they first class passengers would get a refund anyway, which is extremely fair.

Not all of them, what about those on seasons or rovers? They will get at best a token refund but still be denied the higher level of service they specifically paid extra for.

 

[bengolding]

They should never be allowed to declassify 1st class, people have paid extra (double) for it, why should they put up with the "riff raff" on cheap standard class tickets.

It's about time that for busy trains like that they had boarding passes, so only those who have tickets & reservations for that service can board. I mean you wouldn't be allowed to do this with a long haul flight, so why do it on a train.

This must have been an extreme. VT usually declassify coaches G and possibly H, and shift all FC customers into K and J. At least it's better than prior to VHF. I used to get the 11:46 Euston-Glasgow and 11:10 back, and FC was routinely declassified throughout on busy days due to the frequent stopping pattern.

They operate boarding controls at Christmas, so they could have done it here, knowing that Anglo-Scotish services such as the 11:30 o a Friday are likely to be extremely busy.

 

[Mr Spock]

It must have been obvious to the staff how many passengers were getting on thisw train as they were carrying out ticket checks until 5/6 mins before departure.

As far as I can see it was the on train staff that could not be bothered to make the changes before departure and then the guard just decided to declassify after departure, it was not helped by the fact that many people as far as I could see had already plonked themselves in first class.

There were people who missed out on refunds and got no service as the guard said that there were at least 3 people using the Travellers club free tickests as well as someone with a complimentary ticket - and of course me with my free pass.

The guard also stopped marking tickets in coach H and then went back to the rear of the train thus missing out Coach G.

 

[thefab444]

This must have been an extreme. VT usually declassify coaches G and possibly H, and shift all FC customers into K and J. At least it's better than prior to VHF.

The fact they can fit all the FC customers into two coaches perhaps suggests there is too much FC in the first place?

 

[saracen43]

If the pretendolino is working the euston-brum this week can anyone tell me what the
diagram for this is,thanks.

 

[oliverj8]

To save starting another thread, does anyone know where I can get a timetable to the August Bank Holiday Weekend for VT?

Thanks in advance,

 

[dk1]

10.30 Euston-Carlisle was not that heavilly loaded this morning. Apparently many 'Advance' ticket holders where on this train & coach G was not de-classified.

Still dont know what happens to the Pendo after it terminated as my colleague bailed at Preston.

 

[SignalEngineer]

They should never be allowed to declassify 1st class, people have paid extra (double) for it, why should they put up with the "riff raff" on cheap standard class tickets.

It's about time that for busy trains like that they had boarding passes, so only those who have tickets & reservations for that service can board. I mean you wouldn't be allowed to do this with a long haul flight, so why do it on a train.

Firstly, I thought the aim of public transport is to transport any fare paying member of the public. While I understand the frustration of not getting the usual first class service (agree that they should have kept 1 coach first class at least), surely buying a first class ticket you don't expect a less than half full coach while other people cannot board or are sitting on the floor in front of the toilets...

Secondly... on long haul flights they often over-book flights and then people are upgraded to Business or First as required (or do so if there has been flight delays)...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The fact they can fit all the FC customers into two coaches perhaps suggests there is too much FC in the first place?

Totally agree!

Don't know what Richard Branson was thinking over-estimating what people would be prepared to pay for the 1st-class experience when Virgin originally began with 4/4 1st/std car split... It's ridiculous that we are clogging up the WCML now with 9 car trains (of which 5 cars are only standard class). Why not just run 12 car trains like London Midland does (in fact I find the 350s more spacious and brighter windows).

In my opinion they should have had the foresight (although everything these days is a business case) to build a 2-8 or 3-9 configuration... then you could run less frequent services and get more passengers on the trains (and then there wouldn't be such a need to have ANYTIME fares so high in order to price people to less busier times).

It's also a backward step in Engineering that to change the configuration of these trains now requires them to be taken out of service and requiring software updates and retesting ( and ££££ ££££ ££££).

I notice that Class 395 is all one class... It would be interesting to know what configurations are used on ECML GWR and MML loco hauled stock.

 

[Geezertronic]

Yes because Branson made the decision all on his own didn't he

 

[dk1]

Trouble is for most of the day you do not need all that 1st capacity but on certain peak services you really do. I work on NXEA & although off-peak these 2 coaches only have a dozen or so passengers, up until the 10.24 arrival into Liverpool St & departures 15.00-19.30 these trains can be very very busy. Remember the difference between a £8 standard advance single & a £81 first single & with a much heavier premier clientele on the WCML i can see the benefit for the TOC.

To have a hybrid fleet would be a nightmare to diagram.

 

[ukrob]

Yes because Branson made the decision all on his own didn't he

Indeed - posts like that one loose all credibility when personal dislike for someone creeps in whilst ignoring the facts.

 

[gingerheid]

I mean you wouldn't be allowed to do this with a long haul flight, so why do it on a train.

The simplest answer might be "because it's not a long haul flight"?, and the more complicated answer "because what's appropriate for one mode of transport isn't appropriate for another, especially when our railway network has to be a lot of things to a lot of people".

To push the point by using identical logic:

I can put my hand out and stop the Hill Village Hoppa Bus as it's hail and ride. Why can't I stop the Glasgow to London train at the field at the bottom of the lane?

 

[Tugzrule]

The 10:30 from Euston terminates at Carlisle and then goes ECS up to Polmadie. the 10:45 from Carlisle to London also comes ecs from Polmadie. Monday it tooke nearly 3 hours Motherwell-Carlisle and today it sat in the roads behind Carlisle platform 1 for about an hour and a bit.

 

[route101]

The simplest answer might be "because it's not a long haul flight"?, and the more complicated answer "because what's appropriate for one mode of transport isn't appropriate for another, especially when our railway network has to be a lot of things to a lot of people".

To push the point by using identical logic:

I can put my hand out and stop the Hill Village Hoppa Bus as it's hail and ride. Why can't I stop the Glasgow to London train at the field at the bottom of the lane?

haha i was on the Belgrade to Sofia train last month and somebody jumped off the train between Nis and the Bulgarian border . The train was going slowly but still

 

[dk1]

The 10:30 from Euston terminates at Carlisle and then goes ECS up to Polmadie. the 10:45 from Carlisle to London also comes ecs from Polmadie. Monday it tooke nearly 3 hours Motherwell-Carlisle and today it sat in the roads behind Carlisle platform 1 for about an hour and a bit.

Cheers for that. I wonder why it doesnt go forward from Carlisle as a passenger train to relieve the 09.30 & 11.30 Glasgow departures from Euston that can become very busy especially on fridays. Probably crewing or pathing probs.

 

[djw1981]

Both 09.40 ex-Glasgow & 10.45 ex-Carlisle performed well with Euston reached at 13.58 4-early & 14.05 7 early respectivley .

Surely the relief service should be run in front of the 0940 if they want to reduce the loading time and crowding? Few passengers will believe the 'there's another emptier one behind it' line?

 

[dk1]

Surely the relief service should be run in front of the 0940 if they want to reduce the loading time and crowding? Few passengers will believe the 'there's another emptier one behind it' line?

The Glasgow jumps in front whilst the Carlisle is doing its call at Lancaster. This then runs fast from Preston with the Carlisle stepping in with the booked Wigan & Warrington stops. I must admit that when travelling from Bank Quay to Euston i now usually catch the Birmingham Voyager to Crewe then pick up the Manchester via Wilmslow to get to London. I at least then only stand to Crewe. The Glasgow Pendos are often rammed solid after Preston & with no reservation & luggage can be a bit of a pain as is non-stop giving you no chance to bail for a quieter service.

 

[djw1981]

So if doing Glasgow-Wigan on that service where do you change then?

If relief is in from Carlisle-Lancaster, one assumes that you change at Preston - hope it is same platform!