Weekdays 21:20 Middlesborough - York should be extended to Leeds

[yorksrob]

Are there any future plans to extend this service to somewhere useful, like Leeds ?

At the moment, terminating at York creates a pain for onward connections.

 

[HST43257]

Are there any future plans to extend this service to somewhere useful, like Leeds ?

At the moment, terminating at York creates a pain for onward connections.

I mean surely this service is surely of pure convenience rather than being an ECS, I wouldn’t expect much

 

[yorksrob]

I mean surely this service is surely of pure convenience rather than being an ECS, I wouldn’t expect much

I seem to recall a popular TPE from York to Leeds at about that time in the past. Might have been from Scarborough though.

21:20 doesn't seem like a ridiculously late time for an evening service.

 

[55018ballymoss]

It is obviously a passenger working vice running as empty with the purpose of getting the unit back from Middlesbrough to York and into the Siemens depot at York for servicing, so it is never going to be going beyond York

 

[yorksrob]

It is obviously a passenger working vice running as empty with the purpose of getting the unit back from Middlesbrough to York and into the Siemens depot at York for servicing, so it is never going to be going beyond York

It's not even the last train of the day from Middlesborough to York.

 

[55018ballymoss]

It's not even the last train of the day from Middlesborough to York.

It does not have to be the last service of the day to be required for service as part of it’s maintenance cycle

 

[yorksrob]

It does not have to be the last service of the day to be required for service as part of it’s maintenance cycle

I take your point.

It doesn't sound as though the ropey evening service between the north east and West Yorkshire will get better any time soon.

 

[3RDGEN]

I take your point.

It doesn't sound as though the ropey evening service between the north east and West Yorkshire will get better any time soon.

The 22:20 runs through to Manchester Vic serving Leeds, Mirfield, Deighton & Huddersfield.

 

[yorksrob]

The 22:20 runs through to Manchester Vic serving Leeds, Mirfield, Deighton & Huddersfield.

Well yes, but it's too late for my connections. Why does this one run through, but not the 21:30 which would be far more useful for onward connections ? Surely clock face timetables are what's needed ?

 

[3RDGEN]

Well yes, but it's too late for my connections. Why does this one run through, but not the 21:30 which would be far more useful for onward connections ? Surely clock face timetables are what's needed ?

It's a clockface timetable from 06:20 to 19:20 at some point it has to change and 20:20 is that point, as mentioned above your lucky it runs in service and isn't just an ECS to the York depot.

 

[yorksrob]

It's a clockface timetable from 06:20 to 19:20 at some point it has to change and 20:20 is that point, as mentioned above your lucky it runs in service and isn't just an ECS to the York depot.

Well, it's a fairly poor service between two fairly major settlements, but even that aside, it could be better alleviated with better connections.

 

[30907]

Just to note that the previous service is off-pattern at 20.36 not 20.20.

Given that the 21.20 also misses a London connection, there might be a case for running the 2120 earlier, but that would miss the Whitby arrival at 2113, which might annoy someone else (or even the OP?)

Is the market for Middlesborough to Morley (chosen purely for alliteration) bigger than Whitby to York?

 

[willgreen]

Well yes, but it's too late for my connections.

Which connections out of interest?

 

[yorkie]

Which connections out of interest?

Normanton; I suspect the full journey will be from Whitby to Normanton

Which is a very convoluted journey to do by train unfortunately; in Switzerland a similar journey would be more affordable, quicker and with booked connections.

 

[Bantamzen]

Normanton; I suspect the full journey will be from Whitby to Normanton

Which is a very convoluted journey to do by train unfortunately; in Switzerland a similar journey would be more affordable, quicker and with booked connections.

He he, I was thinking the same!

But in all seriousness, I've often wondered why someone, somewhere hasn't thought of having a Whitby service that starts and ends somewhere more useful than Middlesbrough. Admittedly in the past the thought of Pacers rattling down the ECML would have had people suffering palpitations, but these days even Northern have trains that are capable of living on mainlines.

 

[RHolmes]

Well, it's a fairly poor service between two fairly major settlements, but even that aside, it could be better alleviated with better connections.

There’s services between York and Leeds at:

2105 to Liverpool
2108 (all stations)
2110 via Harrogate
2123 to Blackpool
2134 to Manchester Victoria

Hardly a poor service.

If you’re travelling from York you have 5 different services within 30 Minutes. Admittedly it’s not very helpful if you’re travelling from Middlesbrough BUT the demand is largely heading to the North East rather than away from it at that particular time and as stated there are earlier and later trains that run the whole route to provide connections.

 

[yorksrob]

The Middlesborough train gets there at 22:19.

The trains mentioned above are of no use.

Normanton; I suspect the full journey will be from Whitby to Normanton

Which is a very convoluted journey to do by train unfortunately; in Switzerland a similar journey would be more affordable, quicker and with booked connections.

To quote Elaine Paige and Barbara Dixon, you know me so well.

You're right about Switzerland. It shouldn't be so convoluted and expensive to get from on bit of Yorkshire to another by train.

 

[yorkie]

... I've often wondered why someone, somewhere hasn't thought of having a Whitby service that starts and ends somewhere more useful than Middlesbrough. Admittedly in the past the thought of Pacers rattling down the ECML would have had people suffering palpitations, but these days even Northern have trains that are capable of living on mainlines.

Looking at today's trains from Whitby, two of the five continue to Hexham; tomorrow half go to Darlington while the other half go to Carlisle.

But if anyone wants to propose anything else, please do post a new thread in Speculative Discussion

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. It's just the connections to the South that are lacking. The Middlesborough - York service gets into York at 22:23, the same time that the York - Leeds is leaving.

I'm sure this connection never used to be that poor.

Anyway, I'm sure that people are bored of me going on about the Whitby line, so I'm concentrating on the Middlesborough service instead !

 

[3RDGEN]

Indeed. It's just the connections to the South that are lacking. The Middlesborough - York service gets into York at 22:23, the same time that the York - Leeds is leaving.

According to RTT data that issue is resolved in the December timetable as the Blackburn service becomes a bus to Leeds at 22:04 instead.

Realtime Trains | Departures from York between 2200 and 2300 on 20/12/2023

Train information at York between 2200 and 2300 on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 22:20 off Midds is routed via Normanton by the way.

Realtime Trains | 1P92 2151 Saltburn to Manchester Victoria | 20/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 1P92 2151 departure from Saltburn to Manchester Victoria on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[yorksrob]

According to RTT data that issue is resolved in the December timetable as the Blackburn service becomes a bus to Leeds at 22:04 instead.

Realtime Trains | Departures from York between 2200 and 2300 on 20/12/2023

Train information at York between 2200 and 2300 on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 22:20 off Midds is routed via Normanton by the way.

Realtime Trains | 1P92 2151 Saltburn to Manchester Victoria | 20/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 1P92 2151 departure from Saltburn to Manchester Victoria on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That's interesting. Even as a bus, it might get me to Leeds in time.

Of course, the 22:20 off of Middlesborough would be ideal - will it be calling at Wakefield ?

 

[RHolmes]

Of course, the 22:20 off of Middlesborough would be ideal - will it be calling at Wakefield ?

No. Only the 2RJ Manchester stopping services

 

[3RDGEN]

That's interesting. Even as a bus, it might get me to Leeds in time.

Of course, the 22:20 off of Middlesborough would be ideal - will it be calling at Wakefield ?

Given TPE will be serving Wakefield Kirkgate from December it would be good if some of these diverted services stopped there but it's not showing as a stop. Maybe too late after midnight.

 

[yorksrob]

No. Only the 2RJ Manchester stopping services

Given TPE will be serving Wakefield Kirkgate from December it would be good if some of these diverted services stopped there but it's not showing as a stop. Maybe too late after midnight.

It's a shame. Leeds might as well be Timbuktu as far as getting to the five towns at night is concerned. A taxi cost me fifty quid last time.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Anyway, I'm sure that people are bored of me going on about the Whitby line, so I'm concentrating on the Middlesborough service instead !

Though your problem is very much caused by the very thin service on the Whitby line so the continuing complaints are not unreasonable!

That's interesting. Even as a bus, it might get me to Leeds in time.

So perhaps your bus allergy isn't terminal after all! In fact filling the gap in rail departures from Whitby at 1557 and 1942 is the (in)famous Coastliner bus service at 1745 to York (arr 2001). Plenty of time in the White Rose City for a pint or two before connecting at Leeds to reach Normanton at 2154 or 2157. Aside from the lack of integrated ticketing worth considering perhaps?

 

[yorksrob]

Though your problem is very much caused by the very thin service on the Whitby line so the continuing complaints are not unreasonable!


So perhaps your bus allergy isn't terminal after all! In fact filling the gap in rail departures from Whitby at 1557 and 1942 is the (in)famous Coastliner bus service at 1745 to York (arr 2001). Plenty of time in the White Rose City for a pint or two before connecting at Leeds to reach Normanton at 2154 or 2157. Aside from the lack of integrated ticketing worth considering perhaps?

Well, I don't mind a bus journey, so long as its not too long !