Why is there so little freight on Sundays?

[Class15]

I wonder why there is basically no freight on Sundays? It would seem that Sunday would be a perfect day with no peak hour…

 

[brad465]

Engineering works are quite common on Sundays, and as freight can cover long distances they're more likely to encounter a shut route/section.

 

[hexagon789]

I wonder why there is basically no freight on Sundays? It would seem that Sunday would be a perfect day with no peak hour…

Engineering works being more common at weekends might be one.

Also depending on where the freights are serving, some of the destinations might have reduced Sunday staffing/hours?

 

[Class15]

Engineering works are quite common on Sundays, and as freight can cover long distances they're more likely to encounter a shut route/section.

Engineering works being more common at weekends might be one.

Also depending on where the freights are serving, some of the destinations might have reduced Sunday staffing/hours?

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Because a large number of freight locomotives and drivers are being used for engineering trains.

 

[Class15]

Because a large number of freight locomotives and drivers are being used for engineering trains.

Not that many though, lots are still spare during the weekend…

 

[The Planner]

Not that many though, lots are still spare during the weekend…

Are the terminals that the trains are going to open though.

 

[hexagon789]

Are the terminals that the trains are going to open though.

That was precisely my thinking...

 

[deltic]

Are the terminals that the trains are going to open though.

Yes, major ports operate 24/7 - the freight industry has long wanted to run 7 days a week but is generally unable to get the paths it wants due to engineering work.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

With many ports working 24/7/365 it is often said that the ability to offer services every day would help modal shift from road to rail for a lot of intermodal traffic. It would also help for the small parcels traffic from the likes of Amazon. Roads are generally available 24/7/365. It seems Network Rail do not want to offer paths everyday due to the aforementioned use of the network for engineering work at weekend.

Other traffic is possibly linked to the end user. Aggregate, for example, is linked to construction which often closes at weekends.

Weekends see a good number of HGVs on the motorway network, especially Sunday evening as supplies get delivered for Monday morning. If the railway wants to capture some of this traffic it needs to rethink how it does engineering work.

 

[Bald Rick]

If the railway wants to capture some of this traffic it needs to rethink how it does engineering work.

When do you suggest it should be done?

 

[The Planner]

Yes, major ports operate 24/7 - the freight industry has long wanted to run 7 days a week but is generally unable to get the paths it wants due to engineering work.

Don't buy that at all. They could push the issue immediately if they wanted to. It starts petering out at Saturday lunchtime, thats not engineering related.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

When do you suggest it should be done?

I don’t have the answer to that. Engineering work is a necessary evil

 

[dk1]

Large ports such as Felixstowe shut from Saturday afternoon until Monday morning.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don’t have the answer to that. Engineering work is a necessary evil

I’ll tell you then. The work should be done when it affects the least traffic. On almost all lines, that’s Saturday night through to Sunday afternoon.

 

[Class15]

I’ll tell you then. The work should be done when it affects the least traffic. On almost all lines, that’s Saturday night through to Sunday afternoon.

So then freight could run on Sunday evenings?

 

[dk1]

So then freight could run on Sunday evenings?

You then have the drivers that will need 12hrs rest from their Saturday night or Sunday day turns that will then not be available for Monday morning. Add to that the locomotives that were used for weekend engineering not being in the correct place.

 

[Bald Rick]

So then freight could run on Sunday evenings?

it could do. There’s not much market for it though. As you’ll see from the M1 / M6 on Sunday evenings.

 

[Class 170101]

When do you suggest it should be done?

NR needs to get away from the mindset of the 5 day railway and also carrying out works when it suits itself.claiming it cannot get engineering resources any other time other than at the time it has chosen.

 

[Western 52]

Other countries seem to manage to run freight on Sundays. I've seen some lines quite busy with Sunday freight. When do they do their engineering works?

 

[The Planner]

NR needs to get away from the mindset of the 5 day railway and also carrying out works when it suits itself.claiming it cannot get engineering resources any other time other than at the time it has chosen.

And as I keep responding, TOCs and FOCs dont have to say yes to it. There is a process under Part D where any of it can be challenged and often is.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Other countries seem to manage to run freight on Sundays. I've seen some lines quite busy with Sunday freight. When do they do their engineering works?

• https://about-france.com/hgv.htm#:~:text=Most heavy goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes are,or trade fairs, and a few other cases

Most heavy goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes are banned from the French road and motorway network every weekend between the hours of 10 p.m Saturday and 10 p.m Sunday.
There are exceptions for trucks carrying perishable produce or refrigerated produce, trucks servicing sporting events or trade fairs, and a few other cases

Other parts of Europe: Note that trucks are also banned on Sundays in Italy, Luxembourg and Germany (full ban Sundays, part ban on Saturdays). Trucks are banned in Switzerland on Sundays.

There are plenty of HGV restrictions on the continent at weekends and holidays, far more than here, see the link for details.
It's possible more freight is on rail at these times than would otherwise be the case, I don't know.

 

[D6975]

It starts petering out at Saturday lunchtime, thats not engineering related.

Err - yes it is, there's no point setting off if you can't get to the destination before the Saturday night engineering commencement.

 

[The Planner]

Err - yes it is, there's no point setting off if you can't get to the destination before the Saturday night engineering commencement.

A whole 9-10 hours before the blocks come on?

 

[Horizon22]

NR needs to get away from the mindset of the 5 day railway and also carrying out works when it suits itself.claiming it cannot get engineering resources any other time other than at the time it has chosen.

I note you've still not offered an alternative suggestion.

 

[Class 170101]

I note you've still not offered an alternative suggestion.

NR need to do more with less, so some weekend blocks but nowhere near as many as now. On my local line its something like half the year of weekend closures, hardly likely to encourage leisure demand to use the railway and indeed some I know have travelled by car this weekend where they would have used the train.

 

[Horizon22]

NR need to do more with less, so some weekend blocks but nowhere near as many as now. On my local line its something like half the year of weekend closures, hardly likely to encourage leisure demand to use the railway and indeed some I know have travelled by car this weekend where they would have used the train.

So not really an alternative then. You think blocks are being taken for the fun of it? Weekend blocks aren't very efficient either - much better to take 4 days where they can.

Of course people will travel by car if the line is blocked. Alternatively you mess up people's commuting, school, work and business journeys. There's no great solution. Also I don't see it getting much better as NR's settlement for the next control period is expecting a deterioration of the infrastructure.

 

[cactustwirly]

NR need to do more with less, so some weekend blocks but nowhere near as many as now. On my local line its something like half the year of weekend closures, hardly likely to encourage leisure demand to use the railway and indeed some I know have travelled by car this weekend where they would have used the train.

My local line only has 1 weekend a month with anything like a normal service.

It's either a RRB for half the journey or a long winded diversion

 

[Bald Rick]

NR needs to get away from the mindset of the 5 day railway and also carrying out works when it suits itself.claiming it cannot get engineering resources any other time other than at the time it has chosen.

NR only ever do work in agreement with the operators.

 

[Watershed]

NR only ever do work in agreement with the operators.

I don't think that's entirely fair to say. Sometimes they will push a decision to arbitration and get access that one or more operators objected to.