Nottingham 'Bus War'

[bb21]

And really when you think about it, just showing A B C is just like showing the blue/green circle on the front, or how on indigo just the destination is shown etc

To be perfectly honest, is it really that different to the arrangements on Indigo? If they can manage to rid themselves of 5, 5A and 5B on the previous reincarnation of Indigo years ago, why not do the same with the 3-series this time round?

 

[MCR247]

Probably because the three has quite a complicated route map so and all of them go to d

And just having A B C isn't a new kind of thing since on the front of indigo, indigo isn't mentioned really!

The Threes versa: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fgw143/7403060184/

 

[WillPS]

Ahhah so the interior will vary according to the route's colour? Cool!

The orange looks a bit too fluorescent to me but obviously it'll dull a little with age and the vinyls will make it look fab.

 

[MCR247]

Yeah the RC has pink headrests, the Allestree has blue etc

 

[Heinz57]

Thats not a bad idea actualy, having the differant coloured headrests. Quite imaginative, adds some variation across the fleet.

Thanks for the link by the way, the blue bus lurking in the background, is that an i4 tempo?

Re the machines - I'm not sure when they're coming, all I know is there having them at some point.

 

[MCR247]

Yes thats an i4 versa

 

[tbone]

The new ticket machines should allow OAP passes to be scanned, despite there being chip reading technology for mango on the current machines, this isn't currently possible. Apparently 25% of journeys are OAPs and 25% are mango so after the change, only 50% of journeys will require physical tickets, which will no doubt cut costs. It should also allow for new audio stop announcements (customers on the Allestree and i4) have expressed annoyance that these aren't featured on the new buses) and allow for a mobile App which gives users an exact location for their bus.

Hopefully the machine will produce tickets similar to those currently issued, they are a good size and they are presentable, featuring the brand logo on them (or the Trent Barton one for zigzags) and they are much better than those issued by other companies.

 

[WillPS]

The new ticket machines should allow OAP passes to be scanned, despite there being chip reading technology for mango on the current machines, this isn't currently possible. Apparently 25% of journeys are OAPs and 25% are mango so after the change, only 50% of journeys will require physical tickets, which will no doubt cut costs. It should also allow for new audio stop announcements (customers on the Allestree and i4) have expressed annoyance that these aren't featured on the new buses) and allow for a mobile App which gives users an exact location for their bus.

I don't understand what the issue could be. NCT and Stagecoach use the same machine and have no trouble.

Notts & Derby have had external scanners with the ancient Almex machines for years.

 

[scandal]

I don't understand what the issue could be. NCT and Stagecoach use the same machine and have no trouble.

As a point of interest I thought that NCT's CityCards weren't ITSO compliant whereas the Freedom Passes are, can you explain how the non-ITSO CityCards work on the apparent ITSO machines NCT use?

 

[WillPS]

As a point of interest I thought that NCT's CityCards weren't ITSO compliant whereas the Freedom Passes are, can you explain how the non-ITSO CityCards work on the apparent ITSO machines NCT use?

No.

But it might have something to do with the fact that NCT has an external card reader.

 

[Pe251lz]

What's next, Random 'one'? 'The One' is boring, can Rainbow one survive the constant rebranding exercises?
Regarding R5, 9.2, A,B,& 3G etc,*Indigos different because each variant has a dead end terminus so a simple destination board is acceptable. Rainbow 3 will soon start at the same point, split then finish at the same point so numbering/lettering must continue. Personally I quite like the idea of a simple 'B' etc on the front blind, I really do, but the problems start to begin when PLAIN SPARE buses are in abundance on the route so surly the '3' on the blind is also a must? Moving onto the i4 ironically *
Regarding audio & visual stop announcements.
I noticed & heard Indigos was working fine recently. So the lack of audio & visual on the new buses can't be anything to do with Startrak being switched off surly? (& what a waste of money spent on those electronic displays along the Transpeak route, never to be switched on)!
After my moan about the 'i' in the i4 *I'm not very surprised that audio announcements aren't a feature of the other new buses since i4 *(Rudd, Allestree) very backward step in my opinion.*
When I was briefly living in London, my first encounter with GPS was route 101 in Newham, which used to connect me with Wanstead Tube stn. This was just after the new tube stock for the Central line in the mid nineties & nothing gave me more pleasure than hearing the announcement "This is Redbridge, this train is for Hainault, via Newbury Park". I didn't find 'Sonia's' voice annoying at all as mentioned earlier in the thread about NCTs voice of the buses. *I don't remember route 101 having the audio announcements only illuminous yellow LCD displays. *At the time I thought this was the future of travel. Something to expect on even the most rural routes as time progressed....
Seems NCT are making good progress with most buses now with next stop displays & new buses featuring audio. On that point, one observation I made, new yellow line buses have a 'gap' in announcements between Cinderhill Rd, the Headstocks & Old Basford church. Wonder why?
But going back.... I'm still puzzled why TrentBarton had the technology in their grasp & why their letting it go.
Additionally, a very good source told me last week it's not the passengers complaining about the new seats on the i4, it's the drivers, "a letter has been put in to the union". Also of concern is the space in the drivers cab! Are the cabs particularly small or to much cake?
This source also told me that ALL new i4 Tempos are with TB. Funny because today on a short trip into Nottingham, I couldn't help notice 3 spares, 306, 724 & 727!*
Now where were we, ahh yes, should the three lose it's 3? Best not to i recon.......

 

[Deerfold]

*I don't remember route 101 having the audio announcements only illuminous yellow LCD displays. *At the time I thought this was the future of travel. Something to expect on even the most rural routes as time progressed....

London buses did not have next stop displays or announcements before 2007 (apart from a trial on the 149 in 2006 and a fairly disastrous trial on rout 18 in the 90s with huge red LED signs.

 

[Pe251lz]

Perhaps route 101 was a pilot, honestly I saw it for myself! In 1995-96 route 101 had GPS tracking.

 

[Deerfold]

Perhaps route 101 was a pilot, honestly I saw it for myself! In 1995-96 route 101 had GPS tracking.

Ah, I've spoken to someone who knows a bit more than me.

Sounds like it was a brief operator initiative before the route joined the London-wide AVL system (not all routes were on until as late as 2003). It may have only had major points announced (stations etc). There were a couple of these trails by operators including one on route 65 when it was run by Armchair.

 

[starrymarkb]

Perhaps route 101 was a pilot, honestly I saw it for myself! In 1995-96 route 101 had GPS tracking.

It was time based IIRC as it tended to get out of sync, on one occasion I remember it announcing Wanstead Station just after Manor Park! (I have family in Aldersbrook and often visited in the 90s and remember the Pathfinders being introduced)

 

[Pe251lz]

It was time based IIRC as it tended to get out of sync, on one occasion I remember it announcing Wanstead Station just after Manor Park! (I have family in Aldersbrook and often visited in the 90s and remember the Pathfinders being introduced)

Thanks, thought I was going mad!
As suggested perhaps I'm wrong about the gps element as I seem to remember (it's a long time ago) the 'next stop is' did get out of sync'. Also, all stops were displayed, I'm certain. I forget the operator now lol.

 

[bb21]

Indigos different because each variant has a dead end terminus so a simple destination board is acceptable. Rainbow 3 will soon start at the same point, split then finish at the same point so numbering/lettering must continue.

Then surely a simple "Mansfield via Kings Mill Hospital" or similar would suffice?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for the abolition of route numbers/letters.

 

[Pe251lz]

Then surely a simple "Mansfield via Kings Mill Hospital" or similar would suffice?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for the abolition of route numbers/letters.

Don't get me wrong either, I understand your point but look at the route map, Kirkby for example, going inbound to Nottingham some buses depart more or less at the same time because of the Newstead & Kirkby Woodhouse variants. On the other side at Hucknall these buses work out with the ten minute headway into Nottingham. Towards Sutton from Kirkby there are 3 separate routes, Kirkby Cross, Coxmoor etc etc.
On the destination blind I'm certain Hucknall, Kirkby, Sutton will feature as well as the final destination so without 'C' I'm sure the destination blind would need to be far bigger & cluttered with via points.......

 

[Ginga]

Yesterday on Vosa

PB1086799/7 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ

Variation Accepted: Operating between Nottingham City Centre and Chilwell given service number Y36/Y36E effective from 02-Sep-2012. To amend Timetable.

PB1086799/26 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Nottingham, Victoria Centre and Beeston Bus Station given service number Y34 effective from 02-Sep-2012.

Today on Vosa

PB0002362/175 - NOTTINGHAM CITY TRANSPORT LTD, LOWER PARLIAMENT STREET, NOTTINGHAM, NG1 1GG

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: NOTTINGHAM, VICTORIA CENTRE
Finish Point: BEESTON BUS STATION
Via: DERBY ROAD, UNIVERSITY
Service Number: N34
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 03-SEP-2012
Other Details: MONDAY TO SATURDAY NIGHT SERVICE UNIVERSITY TERMS ONLY

PB0002362/176 - NOTTINGHAM CITY TRANSPORT LTD, LOWER PARLIAMENT STREET, NOTTINGHAM, NG1 1GG

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: NOTTINGHAM, SOUTH SHERWOOD STREET
Finish Point: CLIFTON, CRUSADER ISLAND
Via: WILFOR LANE, NOTT TRENT UNIVERSITY
Service Number: N4
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 03-SEP-2012
Other Details: MONDAY TO SATURDAY NIGHT SERVICE HOURLY

 

[MCR247]

oh god

 

[Pe251lz]

I'm no expert recently on the old Rainbow3 route but from a couple of recent trips, (& I couldn't help getting the last direct R3 trip in on Friday)*
I can't help feeling the size of the new buses simply won't be adequate. Remember these routes 40-45 were the last in Trent's fleet to operate using deckers.
The new 'THREE' started today (sunday) with new Optare Versus replacing the elderly Excels & what I experienced, what an interesting day.
All services around lunchtime was running 5-20 minutes late. Both trips I made was 10 & 20 minutes late respectively.*
Was there a rush to try out the new buses? Standing room only on 3 individual services I saw.
First day teething problems perhaps, let's hope so. Either way, management should be on patrol next Sunday. Just a shame I won't be up early in the morning to experience the first Monday morning peak
Has this reorganisation deliberately taken place at the first week of Notts school holidays? One wonders.... Lol

 

[WillPS]

I dont understand the thinking behind decreasing the capacity on a generally well-loaded service. Smaller buses but greater frequency - yes! If I lived on the 'far side' of Hucknall I'd be minded to move to Red 9.

A couple of times I've been on an early evening service viced by a Solo, not exactly comfortable!

 

[tbone]

Premiere seem to be having a few vehicle problems at the moment, coaches have appareared on the Red1, Red5, Red8 and Red flyer. This contravenes Nottingham city council rules, which state that coaches can only be used on services that terminate at one of the two bus stations, which none of the above do.

 

[MCR247]

Ban them from the city centre

 

[WillPS]

Which is why I don't think Councils should have such authority. It effectively means you have to be a large bus company to run a bus service.

 

[MCR247]

Why does it? :?

 

[WillPS]

Because small operators generally get a foothold in coaching and then move in to bus services. To disallow coaches from being used as an extreme backup makes the operation several times more expensive as a large fleet of spares is needed.

 

[MCR247]

Well I'm not sure if a coach is used once due to an extreme unforeseen circumstance would result in the company not being allowed to run into the city?

 

[trentside]

Well I'm not sure if a coach is used once due to an extreme unforeseen circumstance would result in the company not being allowed to run into the city?

I don't think so.

As tbone points out - Premiere have been using one of the ex-RedFlyer coaches quite regularly on various local services and don't appear to have faced any sanctions for doing so (though if they had, I doubt anything would be said). Given their quite substantial bus fleet these days, it's surprising that the coach does creep out into service!

Other developments include Yourbus revising the 229 timetable from 20th August, and ceasing to operate the 228 from the same date. News of any replacement isn't mentioned. From 3rd September, NCT are making revisions to the 1, 4, 5, 6, 10, 17, 26, 34, 35, 37, 43, 44, 48, 59, 78, 79 and 89.

 

[MCR247]

Interesting. Presume it isn't possible to get any more details?