BBC4 Thurs 13th The Age of the Train

[bnm]

I notice the programme didn't mention 43002 being named 'Top of the Pops' in 1982.

The record breaking run of 43002, part of a 2+5 set, took place on 30th August 1984. London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, 117½ miles in 62 minutes 33 seconds, averaging almost 113mph.

Some youtube clips of the run, interspersed with TOTP performances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZIhJnnyk4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-Lw85CkN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-Lw85CkN4

Now theres a suprise!! I still remeber Nick Kershaw trying to mime above the din at Temple Meads.

It was Howard Jones at Bristol Temple Meads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HePvjFRlkHA

This start to stop record was later beaten by another HST 2+5 set on the inaugural run of a new Tyne-Tees Pullman on 27th September 1985. That run averaged 115.4mph, and hit a top speed of 144mph. The fastest a HST has ever run whilst carrying passengers.

 

[jon0844]

Are you suggesting that some people might have an agenda outside of circulating the facts?

Of course not. (cough) Richard Branson (cough)!

 

[Butts]

It's amazing what a huge Empire BR used to be with all the Hotels, Ferries and other assets in addition to The Railways themselves.

Their headquarters in Marleybone Road looked suitably impressive with it's gleaming plaque outside.

I remember those Stewards in the red jackets and bow ties in The Buffets and Restaurants. Clock the Breakfast served in the programme with other options such as Kippers - only a pipedream these days.

Best of all (for me) the sight of Ash Trays on The Buffet Counter

"That was the age of the Train"

 

[jon0844]

I think/hope Inter-City and Eurostar can retain the romance for years to come, but for most other trains and users, it's just a means of getting from A to B.

When they say they want to see more staff on trains, have the chance to buy a drink or snack, have bigger and more spacious seats or longer/more trains - they clearly don't want to pay for it, as they're already paying so much as it is.

 

[370001]

I would have liked to seen a bit more on the technical side regarding its workings, perhaps with brief mentions of other DEMUs, such as the Hastings units and the Blue Pullman, which were the IC125's precursors.
But the political aspect of things was something of an eye-opener.

Completely agree with your first point. It was an interesting programme and I did enjoy it, but I felt it was a little "dumbed down"... alas, as with much BBC content at the moment...

 

[jon0844]

To be fair, it had to be. It needs to appeal to a much wider audience than people who probably already know everything there is to know about something - and so aren't even the target audience.

 

[370001]

To be fair, it had to be. It needs to appeal to a much wider audience than people who probably already know everything there is to know about something - and so aren't even the target audience.

Fair point!

 

[jon0844]

What BBC Four could do, along with others, is offer more information post-broadcast (website, forum etc) for people who were really liked the programme and want to learn more.

 

[Requeststop]

Just watched the doumentary and for once really liked AND enjoyed what I saw. I'd have liked some more about the routeing history, but it's my only complaint in an one hour documetary.

I travelled on a service, Bristol TM direct to Paddington, in which a "World Record"was set for a Diesel Engined train was set. Always been proud of the 125's and still enjoy the ride when back in the UK and heading west from London.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What BBC Four could do, along with others, is offer more information post-broadcast (website, forum etc) for people who were really liked the programme and want to learn more.

Do you mean for people affected by the programme like in "The Archers" recently with the appaling Vicky and Mike's forthcoming sprog? People who can't get over the loss of the APT?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It's amazing what a huge Empire BR used to be with all the Hotels, Ferries and other assets in addition to The Railways themselves.

Their headquarters in Marleybone Road looked suitably impressive with it's gleaming plaque outside.

I remember those Stewards in the red jackets and bow ties in The Buffets and Restaurants. Clock the Breakfast served in the programme with other options such as Kippers - only a pipedream these days.

Best of all (for me) the sight of Ash Trays on The Buffet Counter

"That was the age of the Train"

I assure you 222 Marylebone Rd was a poor office environment - known as Kafka Towers , dodgy electrics , long dark corridors and poor yet once grand office space. (some had unused baths adjacent) - very run down.

My wife laughed at the 125 buffet with huge ashtray - up until around 1985 BR allowed dining / buffet cars to have smoking areas - "but not during meal service" - as a youth , you could blatantly underage buy cigarettes off obliging Stewards. (whereas local shops were a bit more illiberal!) - the 125 served a 20p Express Burger in 1976 , with train cooked (not reheated) chips - also for 20p. The buffet counters were Elm - salavaged from the many trees lost in the Dutch Elm disease problem of the early 70's.

 

[jon0844]

Do you mean for people affected by the programme like in "The Archers" recently with the appaling Vicky and Mike's forthcoming sprog? People who can't get over the loss of the APT?

Erm, yes, just like that.

 

[aylesbury]

Interesting progame the attitude of the unions has not changed Len Weal,s comment that the HST had not done much for BR smacked of sour grapes.Think that the HST is still the best unit that BR ever designed ,it was good to see the lads at Derby actualy working on the project.APT was a project that should have been run over a longer period of development and not rushed into service.The idea was good but the transition into service was rushed for political reasons.The press run that went wrong should not have happened ,if a longer programe of testing had taken place perhaps the tilt could have been tweaked and the electronics sorted out.One problem for APT was the track it was not fettled up to a standard similar today.The tilt mech had a habit of failing in traffic ,as did the communication to the track signaling devices .The APT at least spawned the Pendo,s ,shame they had to be built in Italy using our tecnology.

 

[jon0844]

BR also managed to make trains that seem as if they'll go on forever, like the 313s or the 317-322s. Given enough refurbs, just like the HSTs, they'll probably last for many years more than anyone ever expected them to.

 

[announcements]

Very good programme - agree with the comments. Although they couldn't include everything, I do feel it's a shame they didn't mention much about the Intercity (sectorisation) days of the 1980s and how that pushed into profit.

 

[ivanhoe]

What I enjoyed was the can do attitude of both the Engineers and Design team. Note how ugly the proto type HST was before the Design team started doing modelling in the Wind Tunnel at Imperial.

On the negative side, you saw the likes of Ray Buckton and his insistence of two drivers. He never got over steam trains did he?

Always shed an imaginary tear when I pass the APT at Crewe. What could have been!

 

[BlythPower]

On the negative side, you saw the likes of Ray Buckton and his insistence of two drivers. He never got over steam trains did he?

He wasn't insisting on two drivers but on two seats in the cab. The second being for conductors, instructors, trainees, etc as required. The lack of the second seat would have made driver training, route learning, etc rather difficult.

 

[reb0118]

On the negative side, you saw the likes of Ray Buckton and his insistence of two drivers. He never got over steam trains did he?

He wasn't insisting on two drivers but on two seats in the cab. The second being for conductors, instructors, trainees, etc as required. The lack of the second seat would have made driver training, route learning, etc rather difficult.

Correct.

 

[D1009]

He wasn't insisting on two drivers but on two seats in the cab.

He wasn't only insisting on two drivers, it was actually agreed there would be two drivers on all trains booked to exceed 110 mph. This led to Sunday trains being timed to the lower maximum, the argument being that a higher level of concentration is needed at the higher speed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

He wasn't only insisting on two drivers, it was actually agreed there would be two drivers on all trains booked to exceed 110 mph. This led to Sunday trains being timed to the lower maximum, the argument being that a higher level of concentration is needed at the higher speed.

This is quite interesting what you say above about trains in Britain booked to exceed 110mph needing a higher level of concentration. and the time period we are currently discussing.

I have just been reading about the 1964 period (quite earlier than discussed above) where in readiness for the Tokyo Olympic Games, the first fleet of the Tokaido Shinkansen trains were entered into service with a maximum speed of 130mph, yet I can find no records that the drivers concerned in driving these trains needed supplementary manning because of the concentration requirements being in excess of their normal duties.

Can someone clarify the driving requirements of high-speed trains in both Britain and Japan in the 1965 to the 1985 periods, please.

 

[ACE1888]

I felt the whole programme was a well balanced view of the HST and the times

 

[snail]

Note how ugly the proto type HST was before the Design team started doing modelling in the Wind Tunnel at Imperial.

It wasn't the design team, it was the designer Kenneth Grange who did the testing in his own time according to the interview with him. To their credit the BR teams accepted his work and implemented the improved designs.

 

[yorkie]

It's still available until 2339 tomorrow (Saturday 22 September) on BBC iPlayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mqv43/The_Age_of_the_Train/