On Board Trolley - Question

[DarloRich]

Why is the on board catering trolley designed to be pulled along and not pushed?

If it was not designed this way how did the standard opperating practice become to pull it. It cant be good for your back!

 

[cjohnson]

Maybe it's easier for the person pulling the trolley to see if there are any bags/obstructions in the aisle?

 

[bb21]

Pulling a trolley is much easier than pushing one.

 

[Flamingo]

Pulling a trolley is much easier than pushing one.

I'll vouch for that!

 

[DarloRich]

Maybe it's easier for the person pulling the trolley to see if there are any bags/obstructions in the aisle?

When walking backwards?

Pulling a trolley is much easier than pushing one.

I'll vouch for that!

That is strange. Is it the way the trolley is built or the way it is loaded?

The thought struck me on the way home form York last night.

 

[Flamingo]

The wheels have "guiders" on them, the front two swivel, the rear two can be locked in a straight ahead position, so the rear of the trolley doesn't go everywhere.

 

[tsr]

Maybe it's easier for the person pulling the trolley to see if there are any bags/obstructions in the aisle?

That would be true, especially on busy trains with few luggage racks - Southern/RG trolley staff generally look behind them (whilst pulling) a lot of the time to see what's in the way, but they have to peer round the trolley if they push it - and in addition, pulling a trolley can make it easier to negotiate the connections between coaches.

I can't imagine it is particularly healthy to either push or pull a trolley, which is why I think it might result in less employee downtime and thus greater financial success if the trolley was replaced by a small but rather more pleasant and ergonomically-correct buffet counter. It doesn't need to be big!

As far as I know, some EMT services now have a "static trolley", which uses the buffet counter and the contents of the trolley in combination.

All we need to do is abolish RailGourmet and load the trolley with things that taste good and don't cost slightly more than the average Advance ticket

 

[185]

All about selfish people with legs sticking out into the aisle. Same on the airlines.

Mind you, one of RRNEs/NSs/TPEs (quite legendary) stewards pushed his trolley for over 15 years whilst the 'flatbed' standard BR trolley was being used.

I have took one up the escalators at Piccadilly some years ago when the lifts broke.

Allegedly.

 

[YorkshireRider]

There is nothing stopping you from pushing it, its just its very difficult to steer as the back wheels on the trolley have to have the stabilisers locked on when in use, that means these wheels stay in a fixed position and dont have any left or right movement. If you didnt apply the stabilisers to the back wheels it would be banging left and right into people everytime the train went round a bend or over some points, and these things are heavy. At the front end you just have breaks which you can apply everytime you stop to serve someone, when you take them off these wheels have full range of movement hense its easier to steer when pulling it.

 

[Bungle73]

which is why I think it might result in less employee downtime and thus greater financial success if the trolley was replaced by a small but rather more pleasant and ergonomically-correct buffet counter. It doesn't need to be big!

Where are you going to put a buffet counter on a 375?

 

[dosxuk]

That is strange. Is it the way the trolley is built or the way it is loaded?

When you pull, you will slightly lift the trolley, reducing the weight through the wheels, allowing it to move easier. When you push, you will exert an amount of force downwards, increasing the trolley weight.

For an exagerated example, try pushing/ pulling a sledge on try sand - in one direction it will glide over the sand, the other dig in and get stuck.

There is, of course, a downside, in this case being that the human body works better in compression, making pushing a safer and easier action than pulling, hence being taught in most manual handling courses to push in preference to pull lavge / heavy objects.

 

[Yew]

Supermarket cages are designed to be pulled, its easier as you can use your weight to pull the trolley, and even going backwards you have better visibility. these trolleys seem to follow the same principles.

 

[ainsworth74]

Where are you going to put a buffet counter on a 375?

Same place as they are on 444s and on some 170s?

 

[tsr]

Where are you going to put a buffet counter on a 375?

I'm only thinking of a counter with a docking point for a trolley - it needn't be much larger than a toilet cubicle in floor area, and probably smaller than a wheelchair-friendly toilet. Perhaps there would be a small fridge for extra supplies and a microwave/oven for hot snacks. The counter would, I should think, fold up and down, as is typical in many shop layouts, for access by the member of staff. A fold-down seat might be possible or may even be required to prevent long distances spent standing.

In other words, it doesn't need to take up more than a couple of seats' worth of space, and the extra revenue from a more attractive catering proposition, if coupled with an enhanced menu, would possibly be enough to cover this loss of seating.

I take your point that it would take careful planning and clever use of tight space on any 37x unit. I use 37x trains very regularly, bar 379s, just so you know!

 

[HSTEd]

Problem si people don't like leaving their seat to go to the buffet counter.

Which is why the trend we are seeing is the opposite to what you propose.

 

[tsr]

Problem si people don't like leaving their seat to go to the buffet counter.

Which is why the trend we are seeing is the opposite to what you propose.

But people don't like the limited selection and the perceived lower quality options on a trolley.

In addition, how appropriate do you think a trolley is on a 377 running an early-evening London Victoria to Southampton Central service? The answer, unsurprisingly, is "not very appropriate"!

 

[maniacmartin]

I imagine that the uneven floor surface in doorways and carriage connections is easier to get past when pulling. If pushing, the trolley could get "stuck in a rut" so to speak.

 

[Lrd]

Supermarket cages are designed to be pulled, its easier as you can use your weight to pull the trolley, and even going backwards you have better visibility. these trolleys seem to follow the same principles.

I've always been told to push cages and do actually prefer it to pulling them. I wouldn't like to be standing infront of a run away trolley, If i'm behind then I can just let go.

This wasn't in supermarkets though, this was was other jobs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In addition, how appropriate do you think a trolley is on a 377 running an early-evening London Victoria to Southampton Central service? The answer, unsurprisingly, is "not very appropriate"!

They have trolleys on those services? hock:

 

[Yew]

I've always been told to push cages and do actually prefer it to pulling them. I wouldn't like to be standing infront of a run away trolley, If i'm behind then I can just let go.

QUOTE]

they cages we use are 2m high, so you cant see over them


Maybe the solution is to put menus in every carriage/table, and have the trolley do a run, and then any hot food is prepared and brought to the seat?

I can see why people dotn want to walk to a buffet, and risk losing their seat, or leaving their bags unattended.

 

[telstarbox]

Although I prefer fixed buffets I think trolleys are more passenger-friendly, particularly for passengers who can't or don't want to move around the train (wheelchair users, passengers with children). With a trolley you can go after it if you want or wait for it to come to you, unlike with a fixed buffet counter.

 

[paul1609]

They have trolleys on those services? hock:

Shush!! best kept secret in the South, we Arun Valley users dont want others knowing thats why its not advertised on NRES
Mon Friday 02/32 services from Victoria until 2000
Sat 02 service
Sun Bognor Service.
A visitor from the north was quite sceptical when our 7 oclock service from Ford to Victoria on a Sunday Morning was announced with a catering service but now he knows! Myself I think I preferred the filter coffee in a flask over the current Starbucks offering.

 

[ainsworth74]

Maybe the solution is to put menus in every carriage/table, and have the trolley do a run, and then any hot food is prepared and brought to the seat?

Which would of course devalue the first class product (assuming the service has an at-seat first class service).

 

[Crossover]

Not from the viewpoint of a catering trolley but I can vouch for pulling being easier as our arts group lighting board (which is on a wheeled "table" about a metre or so long) is a heck of a lot easier to pull out of the lift than to push into it (uneven lift entrance) and when moving it on a flat surface, it has a tendancy to go where you want it, rather than it taking you into walls etc!

 

[Yew]

Which would of course devalue the first class product (assuming the service has an at-seat first class service).

I wasnt thinking something so elaborate, but more of a 'bring your toastie/bacon sandwich to you" although looking at the Logistics of it I can see problems.


However unfortunately your other point is true, Increasing the quality of standard class may decrease the attractiveness of first. (for a while didnt the pre-nationalisation companies give chimenysweeps/coal miners free travel or something in third and dirty the carriages, to try and make people want to upgrade to second class)

 

[bb21]

It is also much easier to guide the trolley if pulling. The part of the trolley the host can most easily control is the part nearest to them. If pushing this is the rear of the trolley. The movement of the front of the trolley will be much more difficult to control and will as a result be swiveling about much more, making steering a more difficult task compared to if pulling, where the front is the part nearest to the host.

 

[ainsworth74]

I love this forum sometimes. Seriously we're debating the finer points of catering trolley control? Brilliant

 

[PaulLothian]

Why is the on board catering trolley designed to be pulled along and not pushed?

Primarily for the safety of passengers, who may not take kindly to having straying feet run over, elbows banged or any number of other possibilities. I haven't see a huge range of catering trolleys, but many ScotRail staff wouldn't be able to see over their trolleys! And of course, steering a pushed trolley is far more difficult that pulling it. It's not at all safe if the pivoting wheels are at the further end - a really, really good way to put your back out! If pivoting wheels are at the pushed end, it's a bit better - rather like driving in reverse, it's fine for manoeuvring but requires much more attention to steering to keep a straight line.

All of which is why supermarkets instruct staff to pull rather than push their restocking cages.

 

[bb21]

I love this forum sometimes. Seriously we're debating the finer points of catering trolley control? Brilliant

Don't be a spoil-sport. I love those opportunities where I get to use plain English to explain physics to the mass audience.

 

[PaulLothian]

I love this forum sometimes. Seriously we're debating the finer points of catering trolley control? Brilliant

It's because it's technology everyone can understand!

 

[Phil6219]

As someone who spent years hauling trollies up and down aircraft aisles I can say it is a heck of a lot easier to pull them rather than push. SOP was always to have two people on a "double cart" - as in the longer or full size cart though there were times when one person would have to take a double cart out on their own, not to mention the galley operative having to maneuver several carts around the galley in order to keep the service flowing.
The "half carts" were designed for one person operation but again the same principle applied, pull don't push. Although there is the big issue of how to get said cart up to the appropriate row in the first place, the idea is to pull the cart up from the rear galley to the appropriate row and then push it back to the rear galley, the fact the aircraft is in a slightly nose high attitude helps with this.

A full size drinks trolley though weighs a heck of a lot and a runaway cart has snapped the bone in a colleague's arm in the past (stuck arm out to stop an unsecured cart from racing into the cabin... nasty).

As for cages, either will suffice. I preferred pulling these when on the shop floor but when in the back I would push. A colleague pushed one of these into a rut at speed and the whole thing went over, shame it was loaded with booze...

I think I've gone off topic a bit but hopefully there is some insight there.

Phil