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Preston Bus Station to be demolished
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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RailUK Forums
It's still democracy. We elect them to make decisions in the best interests of their constituents. The choice is to borrow a ludicrous £23M, waste the £5M city centre 'improvement' fund on repairing the bus station or collaborate with the County Council on finding a more appropriate solution long term.
The Tithebarn proposals included replacement of the bus station. Did no councillors support that?
The Tithebarn proposals included replacement of the bus station. Did no councillors support that?
tbtc
Veteran Member
Are you claiming that plans to replace a poorly used bus station is the kind of human rights violation that justifies disrupting the democratic process?
Or are you getting your priorities mixed up a little?
No, of course not. And your post is knee deep in prejudices and non sequitur assumptions, incidentally.
And yours seemed rather extreme as a *first reaction* - before suggesting contacting your councillor, for example.
90019
Established Member
As you may have missed it last time, PR1Berske:
Rather than moaning about it to us on here and contemplating disrupting council meetings, why not actually do something proactive to try and save it instead?
VTPreston_Tez
Member
Have any of you been on the bus station when Newman College finishes and on most football days? You'll be amazed at how crowded it gets so demolishing the bus station isn't a very good idea
Class20
Member
Anybody want to buy the bus station? Its only going to cost you £1. The catch is that you must be able to find a plan to make it pay.
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/bus-station-available-for-1-1-5224118
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/bus-station-available-for-1-1-5224118
I believe there is such a group
But how many stands are used?
Class20
Member
The same as at any other time of the day, unless there are extra services put on for the football. Though I think they would depart from the stadium, a way of relieving the pressure at the bus station.
Newman College students just make the place busy, its only for a short period of time while they all wait for their bus home.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
A bus station that gets busy at peak times? Never heard such rubbish...
There aren't many that get busy and still have over 40 empty stands!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Well, Monday 17th December 2012 has finally arrived and today, the councillors will be casting their votes in the chamber to decide the fate of the bus station in Preston.
Come what may, even if the vote goes against the retention of the existing bus station, the cost of the replacement one will not fall directly on the financial shoulders of the residents of the city, as the cost will be borne by Lancashire County Council.
Come what may, even if the vote goes against the retention of the existing bus station, the cost of the replacement one will not fall directly on the financial shoulders of the residents of the city, as the cost will be borne by Lancashire County Council.
We've got some very favourable coverage through Channel 4 and the Guardian, building on this to get real momentum against demolition is the aim. If Rankin really does want to sell the place off for a quid, I'm happy to support that as long as the new owners commit to keeping the station "as is". It's always good to protest and demonstrate, though, as this decision could be shamefully rubber-stamped without reason, justification or democratic accountability, and it's always good to remind councillors who's in charge.
tbtc
Veteran Member
What alternative proposal will your Angry Mob be suggesting?
The Council has £5m reserves, from which money can be spent on general refurbishment. We dispute the alleged total of refurb given by the council, which has gone from £2m to £23m and back again over their 12 years of distortion and propaganda.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Presumably at least some of this money is there for other purposes (and not just all for tarting up an underused bus station)?
starrymarkb
Established Member
But what about those that approve of replacing the bus station. Should they not be entitled to representation?
Do you have serious proposals and costings? Could you not lobby your councillor to see your side (or at least take it into account)
Disrupting the democratic process because it isn't going your way makes you little better then the thugs that have been rioting in Belfast because the elected officials voted for something they didn't like...
Do you have serious proposals and costings? Could you not lobby your councillor to see your side (or at least take it into account)
Disrupting the democratic process because it isn't going your way makes you little better then the thugs that have been rioting in Belfast because the elected officials voted for something they didn't like...
All of it is there for another purpose. The £5M is for city centre development. If it's all spent on the bus station there will be no scope to improve the markets or other parts of the city centre.
I'm not sure what a developer could do with this site. The car park is far from DDA compliant, even if that was overcome you're essentially left with a large space. I wouldn't mind seeing it converted into a cinema/entertainment complex - dunno if that is practical but the space and car parking is there and the city centre is woefully short of evening entertainment that doesn't involve alcohol.
Of course you would have to find a new site for the bus station...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Guardian architectural critic said:
The building does look good in the right light but 'cruise liner', 'gleaming racks of whalebones'? Really?
Is pretentious twaddle a compulsory module in architectural schools? :roll:
Last edited:
The report which looked into the future of the bus station was written by Jacobs Engineering Group, Ltd.
Jacobs Engineering Group, Ltd recently acquired part of Land Lease Corporation Limited.
Land Lease Corporation Ltd. own land around the bus station site, and were at the centre of the Tithebarn regeneration scheme to rebuild central Preston before the 2008 economic crash.
Jacobs Engineering Group, Ltd recently acquired part of Land Lease Corporation Limited.
Land Lease Corporation Ltd. own land around the bus station site, and were at the centre of the Tithebarn regeneration scheme to rebuild central Preston before the 2008 economic crash.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Send that article to Pseuds Corner in Private Eye
I love the Guardian, but it can serve up some steaming piles of pretentious toss...
As a Prestonian, I approve of the demolition of the bus station, assuming that there is a decent replacement solution. When Tithebarn was proposed, I was wholeheartedly in favour of getting it demolished ASAP, along with all the other excuses for buildings in that part of Preston. Now Tithebarn is off the agenda, I'm somewhat more cautious of rushing things. I think even the sight of the bus station beats a crater in the middle of the city centre. I could list a whole number of reasons as to why it should be demolished, but I'll keep it brief:
For starters, it's in the wrong place. For several years, the councils regeneration strategy has focussed on trying to reverse the natural gravity of activity in the city centre, which has been moving more and more towards the railway station. It hasn't worked, and what we still have is a massive transport facility that is largely disconnected from the heart of the city's retail offer, the university, and most importantly the railway station. As such, any buses heading outbound generally see greater numbers boarding at the key stops on Fishergate, Ringway, Church Street, and Friargate. Even the 2 Park and Ride services avoid the bus station because they know they would be largely ineffective by taking commuters to the wrong part of town.
Even if the bus station was in the right place, it's too big. I've seen posts in this thread saying that Preston would struggle with a bus station of 36 bays. Absolute bull. That would be more than enough. The bus station has always been used at under-capacity massively, but this has worsened since with withdrawal of many regional/national routes due to competition from the railways, and the consolidation of routes when Stagecoach took over Preston Bus. I believe that before the Competition Commission forced Stagecoach to sell off many of the Preston Bus routes, they were planning to have the Preston Citi franchise move to the eastern side of the station with the Fishwicks and National services, leaving a whole side of the station completely unused. The eastern side has 37 stands (35 since the pedestrian movement measures were put in place. Still think a 36 stand capacity bus station wouldn't be enough? (not including layover spaces)
The bus station itself isn't the only aspect of the building that is too big, the car park is also massively underutilised. So much so that a few years ago, the council actually closed the top two levels to save on costs. In addition to that, the purpose built taxi waiting point at the south end of the station was taken out of use years ago. It has now been put back into use as a rarely used pick up/drop off point:
Moving on to aesthetics, to most, it's a very ugly building, inside and out. The car park facade is certainly striking, but the building has few other redeeming features. This has been made worse since they put in new measures to try and stop pedestrians from crossing the apron, which brings us onto our next point...
...it's not user friendly. The subways and skybridge which were originally built to take people in and out of the station were often avoided by passengers, as like most subways they were very intimidating and often home to shady characters. As such, people resorted to crossing the apron, which resulted in people being injured (and in one case killed) by reversing buses. To avoid this occurring, the council put in 3 pedestrian crossings and surrounded the whole site with metal fencing:
Images courtesy of Tony Worrell
As you can see, it looks more like something you'd see in 1980's East Berlin.
In addition, to all the above, it's cold, wet, vile, and I hate using it.
For starters, it's in the wrong place. For several years, the councils regeneration strategy has focussed on trying to reverse the natural gravity of activity in the city centre, which has been moving more and more towards the railway station. It hasn't worked, and what we still have is a massive transport facility that is largely disconnected from the heart of the city's retail offer, the university, and most importantly the railway station. As such, any buses heading outbound generally see greater numbers boarding at the key stops on Fishergate, Ringway, Church Street, and Friargate. Even the 2 Park and Ride services avoid the bus station because they know they would be largely ineffective by taking commuters to the wrong part of town.
Even if the bus station was in the right place, it's too big. I've seen posts in this thread saying that Preston would struggle with a bus station of 36 bays. Absolute bull. That would be more than enough. The bus station has always been used at under-capacity massively, but this has worsened since with withdrawal of many regional/national routes due to competition from the railways, and the consolidation of routes when Stagecoach took over Preston Bus. I believe that before the Competition Commission forced Stagecoach to sell off many of the Preston Bus routes, they were planning to have the Preston Citi franchise move to the eastern side of the station with the Fishwicks and National services, leaving a whole side of the station completely unused. The eastern side has 37 stands (35 since the pedestrian movement measures were put in place. Still think a 36 stand capacity bus station wouldn't be enough? (not including layover spaces)
The bus station itself isn't the only aspect of the building that is too big, the car park is also massively underutilised. So much so that a few years ago, the council actually closed the top two levels to save on costs. In addition to that, the purpose built taxi waiting point at the south end of the station was taken out of use years ago. It has now been put back into use as a rarely used pick up/drop off point:
Moving on to aesthetics, to most, it's a very ugly building, inside and out. The car park facade is certainly striking, but the building has few other redeeming features. This has been made worse since they put in new measures to try and stop pedestrians from crossing the apron, which brings us onto our next point...
...it's not user friendly. The subways and skybridge which were originally built to take people in and out of the station were often avoided by passengers, as like most subways they were very intimidating and often home to shady characters. As such, people resorted to crossing the apron, which resulted in people being injured (and in one case killed) by reversing buses. To avoid this occurring, the council put in 3 pedestrian crossings and surrounded the whole site with metal fencing:
Images courtesy of Tony Worrell
As you can see, it looks more like something you'd see in 1980's East Berlin.
In addition, to all the above, it's cold, wet, vile, and I hate using it.
Is having a bus station a prerequisite for high patronage? The main four towns usually singled out as successful under deregulation are Nottingham, Brighton, Cambridge and Oxford. Each of those places has a bus station but they are only used for a minority of services, mainly out of town and long distance ones. The vast majority of passengers in these locations use city centre streets.
Accura - your post is expansive but filled with a personal bias which negates most of your points.
Further, you say it's too big and in the wrong place. You'll be pleased to know, then, that the replacement (at £15m cost, at the least) is set to be at the same place as the current bus station. So 12 years of saying "It's in the wrong place" now fades to nothing, they're building it at the same location.
Further, you say it's too big and in the wrong place. You'll be pleased to know, then, that the replacement (at £15m cost, at the least) is set to be at the same place as the current bus station. So 12 years of saying "It's in the wrong place" now fades to nothing, they're building it at the same location.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is the meeting tonight a closed-session meeting ?
The meeting has just finished.
In principle, the Cabinet has agreed to:
*Demolish the covered market
*Demolish the bus station, save for:
a) A meeting with "a wealthy Lancashire business man"
b) An independent second opinion on the figures presented in this week's report.
It was confirmed that no structural analysis has been carried out since 1999.
In principle, the Cabinet has agreed to:
*Demolish the covered market
*Demolish the bus station, save for:
a) A meeting with "a wealthy Lancashire business man"
b) An independent second opinion on the figures presented in this week's report.
It was confirmed that no structural analysis has been carried out since 1999.
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