HS2 Northern Branches Discussion

[Holly]

May need to 'Google search' this...
Change at Crewe as HS2 hub plan gathers pace

... Sir Terry [Farrell] was involved in the previous government’s planning of the HS2 route from London to Scotland ... He is also designing Old Oak Common, the new west London station ...
His Crewe plans involve an underground station south of the existing one with a tram and bus interchange. It promises 20,000 jobs and 5,000 new homes. ...

Building a new above-ground station and constructing fairly short HS2 to WCML link lines both South and North of Crewe would achieve the same ends at lower cost than any kind of underground civil works.

 

[Chris125]

Building a new above-ground station and constructing fairly short HS2 to WCML link lines both South and North of Crewe would achieve the same ends at lower cost than any kind of underground civil works.

Precisely, classic compatibles can use the existing station, suitably restored or even rebuilt if so desired at far less cost and there's plenty of room for more platforms should they be needed. Sounds like another go at getting the station relocated to Basford Hall, this time using HS2 to pay for it.

Chris

 

[steamdrivenand]

Building a new above-ground station and constructing fairly short HS2 to WCML link lines both South and North of Crewe would achieve the same ends at lower cost than any kind of underground civil works.

AND where did the 'tram' reference suddenly come from for goodness sake? I've lived 5 miles south of Crewe for over 3 years and haven't heard any mention of trams before. Maybe there won't be a route, just a terminal :roll:

With the actual routes due for announcement in the next week or fortnight it sounds like a desperate attempt influence matters late in the day. Surely HS2 Ltd will be developing their plans independently and any local authority developing their own plans are wasting tax payers money.
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Precisely, classic compatibles can use the existing station, suitably restored or even rebuilt if so desired at far less cost and there's plenty of room for more platforms should they be needed. Sounds like another go at getting the station relocated to Basford Hall, this time using HS2 to pay for it.

Chris

NR already have plans and a budget to update the station but I haven't seen what is included.

 

[PR1Berske]

Source - The Daily Telegraph
Writer - Robert Watts

Just days before ministers unveil the path of the next stage of the high-speed train line, the former Welsh Secretary Cheryl Gillan likened the scheme to a “cancer” and said the Prime Minister had failed to scrutinise the “detail” of the scheme.

Mrs Gillan, whose Buckinghamshire constituency lies on HS2’s proposed route, warned that commuters faced further years of soaring rail fares if the £32 billion project goes ahead. The average rail fare rose by 4.2 per cent last week — the tenth successive year tickets have risen by more than inflation.

Her intervention comes as fresh concerns are raised over the project as detailed emerged of its second stage, when it is extended beyond Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds.

The scheme may not actually have a station in central Manchester, and will bypass cities including Derby and Nottingham. There is also increasing certainty that it will avoid , adding £1 billion to the estimated cost of the second phase.


In an article for The Sunday Telegraph Mrs Gillan writes: “The [Coalition’s] three Transport Secretaries have not had the leadership, influence or courage to question the project because there is also a commonly held view that it is Cameron and Osborne that want this railway and that they should have it no matter what the cost financially or politically.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ke-a-cancer-says-former-cabinet-minister.html


Is the line about "The scheme may not actually have a station in central Manchester" the first hint of a clue from within, or Telegraph spin?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Cheryl Elise Kendall Gillan is typical of the end-product education given to those who have attended Cheltenham Ladies College who sees much personal political gain for herself with her local electorate in the Chesham and Amersham constituency she currently represents. At the age of 60 now, she will not be in office when the project is finally underway.

 

[steamdrivenand]

Source - The Daily Telegraph
Writer - Robert Watts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ke-a-cancer-says-former-cabinet-minister.html

Is the line about "The scheme may not actually have a station in central Manchester" the first hint of a clue from within, or Telegraph spin?

Later on in the article the Leader of Cheshire East Council, he of the underground station and trams for Crewe, says he's 85% certain the route will go through Crewe. The supposition is that his HS2 opposition has been bought off by promising the line won't pass through the more prosperous parts of East Cheshire. The article suggests that going the extra miles west via Crewe will cost an additional £1.2bn, but I have my doubts given that the direct route is over very challenging terrain which must cost a lot per mile compared to the comparatively benign landscape that the WCML traverses.

 

[JohnB57]

Cheryl Elise Kendall Gillan is typical of the end-product education given to those who have attended Cheltenham Ladies College who sees much personal political gain for herself with her local electorate in the Chesham and Amersham constituency she currently represents. At the age of 60 now, she will not be in office when the project is finally underway.

What do you expect her to do Paul? Campaign counter to the views of the people who elected her?

I'm no apologist for any politician - I'm as suspicious of their frequent soundbites as the next man - and in any case my my politics go the other way to hers. But equally, it seems to me that she's doing her job in a way that accords with the opinions of a large portion of her electorate.

And even when you strip away the nimby arguments against it, it's still difficult to see how HS2 will bring any benefits specific to that part of the country. Given that, it's actually refreshing to see a politician refusing to toe the party line.

 

[33Hz]

Back to the FT article - that's a pretty naked blackmail threat from the Crewe lobby.

 

[Chris125]

Some hints from the Telegraph, the route is to be announced this week.

- Toton sidings for Nottingham
- Meadowhall for Sheffield
- Manchester Airport
- Manchester Piccadilly
- branch to Crewe

Nothing too surprising there....

Chris

 

[33Hz]

Sounds like the journey time for Manchester - London has risen by 5 minutes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What do you expect her to do Paul? Campaign counter to the views of the people who elected her?

I'm no apologist for any politician - I'm as suspicious of their frequent sound bites as the next man - and in any case my my politics go the other way to hers. But equally, it seems to me that she's doing her job in a way that accords with the opinions of a large portion of her electorate.

And even when you strip away the nimby arguments against it, it's still difficult to see how HS2 will bring any benefits specific to that part of the country. Given that, it's actually refreshing to see a politician refusing to toe the party line.

I appreciate your comments, albeit being more to the right of the political divide than your good self, but whilst possibly being accused of being "ageist" (I am 67 years of age), I have seen many examples over my many years on this planet of much younger politicians with a political career stretching out in front of them who have been quite happy to follow the party line to curry favour in the eyes of their political overlords and to ignore "the opinions of a large portion of their electorate", if you are happy for me to re-use this phrase stated in your own posting.

 

[steamdrivenand]

STOP PRESS
Crewe trams to provide a shuttle service between B&Q and the station. McDonalds object to lack of consultation on the route. Street of a Thousand Car Dealers to become a tram marshalling yard. Lord Branson upset at Virgin Trams getting tram franchise. Esso/Tesco to appeal decision to move Crewe Arms 50m south east on roller skates.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some hints from the Telegraph, the route is to be announced this week.

- Toton sidings for Nottingham
- Meadowhall for Sheffield
- Manchester Airport
- Manchester Piccadilly
- branch to Crewe

Nothing too surprising there....

Chris

Being so near in time, I am sure that all of us can now wait for the actual announcement to be made rather than spend any more time in idle supposition.

Does anyone remember the thread that was set up when the DfT announced that Virgin had not been awarded the next WCML franchise....and all matters subsequently appertaining to that matter, where much speculative posting saw the light of day until the hard and fast decision later in the day, after the debacle of DfT misfeasance was revealed.

 

[si404]

Cheryl Elise Kendall Gillan is typical of the end-product education given to those who have attended Cheltenham Ladies College who sees much personal political gain for herself with her local electorate in the Chesham and Amersham constituency she currently represents.

You can put a cabbage with a blue rosette on up for election around here and it would still win - especially next time as the Lib Dems collapse would mean that the non-Tory vote will be split more evenly, rather than 75-25 to the Lib Dems over Labour.

It's a great seat for a career politician who will tow the party line. That she was Welsh secretary suggests that she might have been colourful enough to run in a less safe seat closer to her roots. It seems that, having been a think tank guru, she tried a hard seat for Europe (Manchester) then got parachuted into a safe seat in '92. Having been a junior minister in the dying days of the Major government, she got promoted to the shadow cabinet in 2005 as one of the few people with Governmental experience (certainly the case come 2010 and real cabinet picking). Cheryl became shadow Welsh secretary as she is Welsh born-and-raised and there weren't really any Welsh Tory MPs to choose from (especially not ones that would toe the line like a career politician or had the experience to be a front-bencher).

At the age of 60 now, she will not be in office when the project is finally underway.

She's moved out of the constituency due to health problems of her or her husband requiring a better design and I think I recall reading that she left the Welsh secretary's position to reduce her workload (though I imagine HS2 plays a part). I can imagine her retiring in 2015.

What do you expect her to do Paul? Campaign counter to the views of the people who elected her?

The people of Chesham and Amersham who support HS2 (there must be more than just me) had no choice but to vote for an anti-HS2 candidate. Even with a blue rosette it would be electoral suicide as the HS2-phobes (it does seem to mostly be an irrational fear and hatred, though with some rationality and lots of fearmongering by the media behind it) dominate the argument.

And even when you strip away the nimby arguments against it, it's still difficult to see how HS2 will bring any benefits specific to that part of the country.

Lower house prices due to both less demand to live that close to London to get there within an hour and less demand due to people believing what Stop-HS2 are saying about destruction of the Chilterns - sucks for those who live there currently, good for the area long term as it would mean less infill development that strains the infrastructure and turns the area into densely backed Barrett boxes, less greenfield development (what is much more likely to destroy the Chilterns) due to the need to build x houses this decade in this area with x being through the roof.

The extra WCML capacity for local services will mean that people might stop driving from the area around Berkhamstead, through Chesham, to the big car park at Amersham station to get a train to London.

And I haven't even touched on how the better UK and London economies will be good news for those who live in this area and have money to invest, jobs in London, etc, etc...

It's not all doom and gloom for the Chilterns wrt HS2 - OK, the benefits aren't direct, but they do outweigh most of the negatives, especially those negatives that are still there when the line is open and/or if they move the main base for construction to somewhere else.

Given that, it's actually refreshing to see a politician refusing to toe the party line.

HS2 is the only thing she's disagreed with the government on - despite various other things that the government have done in the interest of the country, but not the well-to-do people in Chesham and Amersham. It's refreshing to see a party stooge like Cheryl not toeing the party line (though in the case of local party, she is) - certainly she's no radical dissenter - like her fellow party-members Carswell, Reckless, etc...

 

[RobShipway]

You can put a cabbage with a blue rosette on up for election around here and it would still win - especially next time as the Lib Dems collapse would mean that the non-Tory vote will be split more evenly, rather than 75-25 to the Lib Dems over Labour.

It's a great seat for a career politician who will tow the party line. That she was Welsh secretary suggests that she might have been colourful enough to run in a less safe seat closer to her roots. It seems that, having been a think tank guru, she tried a hard seat for Europe (Manchester) then got parachuted into a safe seat in '92. Having been a junior minister in the dying days of the Major government, she got promoted to the shadow cabinet in 2005 as one of the few people with Governmental experience (certainly the case come 2010 and real cabinet picking). Cheryl became shadow Welsh secretary as she is Welsh born-and-raised and there weren't really any Welsh Tory MPs to choose from (especially not ones that would toe the line like a career politician or had the experience to be a front-bencher).She's moved out of the constituency due to health problems of her or her husband requiring a better design and I think I recall reading that she left the Welsh secretary's position to reduce her workload (though I imagine HS2 plays a part). I can imagine her retiring in 2015.The people of Chesham and Amersham who support HS2 (there must be more than just me) had no choice but to vote for an anti-HS2 candidate. Even with a blue rosette it would be electoral suicide as the HS2-phobes (it does seem to mostly be an irrational fear and hatred, though with some rationality and lots of fearmongering by the media behind it) dominate the argument.Lower house prices due to both less demand to live that close to London to get there within an hour and less demand due to people believing what Stop-HS2 are saying about destruction of the Chilterns - sucks for those who live there currently, good for the area long term as it would mean less infill development that strains the infrastructure and turns the area into densely backed Barrett boxes, less greenfield development (what is much more likely to destroy the Chilterns) due to the need to build x houses this decade in this area with x being through the roof.

The extra WCML capacity for local services will mean that people might stop driving from the area around Berkhamstead, through Chesham, to the big car park at Amersham station to get a train to London.

And I haven't even touched on how the better UK and London economies will be good news for those who live in this area and have money to invest, jobs in London, etc, etc...

It's not all doom and gloom for the Chilterns wrt HS2 - OK, the benefits aren't direct, but they do outweigh most of the negatives, especially those negatives that are still there when the line is open and/or if they move the main base for construction to somewhere else.HS2 is the only thing she's disagreed with the government on - despite various other things that the government have done in the interest of the country, but not the well-to-do people in Chesham and Amersham. It's refreshing to see a party stooge like Cheryl not toeing the party line (though in the case of local party, she is) - certainly she's no radical dissenter - like her fellow party-members Carswell, Reckless, etc...

Please explain how you think that HS2 is going to be good for Chesham and Amersham as I don't suspect that there is going to be any stations after Old Oak Common, until you get to the station for Birmingham Airport?

I must add that I am pro HS2, however I can see that some places may suffer with HS2 being built and not have the gains that the major cities such as Birmingham and Manchester will gain by having quicker rail services.

 

[PR1Berske]

I have been , and will continue to be, pro-HS2. But two stations in Manchester? Really?

 

[rebmcr]

I have been , and will continue to be, pro-HS2. But two stations in Manchester? Really?

Ringway - Piccadilly (for example) is 50% further than Stratford Intl - St Pancras.

 

[steamdrivenand]

I have been , and will continue to be, pro-HS2. But two stations in Manchester? Really?

I think they're just playin' fair.

Euston and Heathrow for Lunnon EDIT forgot about Stratford., but as it's a southern Capital maybe three are allowed.

Central and Brum Intern'tl

Central and Manc Airport

Mind they'd have real probs matching Central Leeds and Yeadon on top of its mountain.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Being so near in time, I am sure that all of us can now wait for the actual announcement to be made rather than spend any more time in idle supposition.

Don't be a spoilsport Paul, that's what Forums like this are for

 

[LE Greys]

Please explain how you think that HS2 is going to be good for Chesham and Amersham as I don't suspect that there is going to be any stations after Old Oak Common, until you get to the station for Birmingham Airport?

I must add that I am pro HS2, however I can see that some places may suffer with HS2 being built and not have the gains that the major cities such as Birmingham and Manchester will gain by having quicker rail services.

The theory is that fewer long-distance passengers will allow the line to increase the number of stops on local trains, so it's more likely to benefit Bicester than Amersham. Thing is, those nice silver trains with locos on the end are going to disappear, since nobody will travel on them end-to-end and its inefficient to have them around when they're not used for a main line-style service, but a suburban stopper. I'm not sure I like trading internal quality for frequency, but that's how it's supposed to work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some hints from the Telegraph, the route is to be announced this week.

- Toton sidings for Nottingham
- Meadowhall for Sheffield
- Manchester Airport
- Manchester Piccadilly
- branch to Crewe

Nothing too surprising there....

Chris

So, somewhere outside Nottingham with no current passenger rail connections, somewhere outside Sheffield but with rail connections, an airport with rail connections, a station in central Manchester and a branch to Crewe instead of placing Crewe on a loop. Displacing the Toton station to East Midlands Parkway would save a lot of bother (and finally make [stn]EMD[/stn] useful for something) since its existing services could carry people into Nottingham, Derby and Leicester much more easily than having to divert existing services into Toton to cope with it. Meadowhall makes more sense, direct trains to most of the West Riding can access it, but it's still considerably out of Sheffield. Manc Airport and Piccadilly are the two best-sited stations, one for its central location and both for their rail connections. Ideally, Piccadilly would be a through station to allow through running to Preston, Carlisle and Glasgow, but most likely that's what the Crewe branch is for, although that would serve Liverpool and Holyhead as well. Routing Glasgow trains through Manchester cuts off Warrington and Wigan, but I'd still consider doing so for the sake of the Manchester-Glasgow market.

 

[si404]

Please explain how you think that HS2 is going to be good for Chesham and Amersham as I don't suspect that there is going to be any stations after Old Oak Common, until you get to the station for Birmingham Airport?

I gave some reasons in my post as to why. Did you not read them when you saw I was saying how there is a silver lining for Amersham and Chesham? Here they are again:

One is the indirect benefit of Amersham's service being very poor in comparison to Berko's, so the Berko area commuters will hopefully not drive through Chesham to park at Amersham station and get a train there, instead taking the faster and more frequent WCML service.

Another is the effects it will play on the housing market - less demand for houses (for various reasons) = less destruction of the Chilterns with greenfield sites to meet housing demand and less overstretching of the towns' infrastructure through infill (buy two houses, create 6 Barrett box houses kind of thing, or even buy 2 houses, create a large block of 'Sunset living' apartments, changing 4 cars into 24!)

A third reason is the indirect benefit via benefits to UK PLC. The people who live in Amersham and Chesham would, on average, benefit more from that aspect of HS2 than most Brits not getting direct economic benefits.

This isn't to undo the costs - which for Amersham and Chesham towns themselves now purely relates to the construction of the line, especially wrt trucks and routes that they might take (though that is looking to disappear according to the local papers who won't be content until the line is scrapped entirely and are using victories at the Judicial Inquiry to rally people to the cause of defeating the line). Other than the planning blight and drop in house prices that the scaremongers caused by overhyping the blight that the line will cause, of course. :roll:

 

[swt_passenger]

It doesn't mention a 'branch to Crewe' though - it actually reads like this:

"Meanwhile the western branch will head towards Manchester via Crewe, with stations proposed for Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport."

Regarding taking the eastern leg up alongside the M42, wasn't the start point of this exact route shown on the original drawings in Adonis's first ever announcement? There was to be a flying junction immediately to the north of the Birmingham 'delta junction' - IIRC trains from Birmingham would have accessed it without actually rejoining HS2. Then this junction mysteriously disappeared from the second set of maps only a few months later. If this route is happening after all that seems in hindsight to have been a bit of a daft thing to remove from the published info - and yet again we have comments in the Telegraph about the eastern branch leaving the route 'north of Birmingham' whereas a glance at any map would show this location, which has to be near the M6/M42 junction, is more like due east of Birmingham?

 

[Stats]

Regarding taking the eastern leg up alongside the M42, wasn't the start point of this exact route shown on the original drawings in Adonis's first ever announcement? There was to be a flying junction immediately to the north of the Birmingham 'delta junction' - IIRC trains from Birmingham would have accessed it without actually rejoining HS2. Then this junction mysteriously disappeared from the second set of maps only a few months later. If this route is happening after all that seems in hindsight to have been a bit of a daft thing to remove from the published info - and yet again we have comments in the Telegraph about the eastern branch leaving the route 'north of Birmingham' whereas a glance at any map would show this location, which has to be near the M6/M42 junction, is more like due east of Birmingham?

The "likely" location of the Leeds branch junction at the M6/M42, along with the other "likely" location of the two Heathrow junctions and the Manchester junction has been available on the HS2 website since at least last summer. http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/node/5691

 

[si404]

The theory is that fewer long-distance passengers will allow the line to increase the number of stops on local trains, so it's more likely to benefit Bicester than Amersham.

Do trains skip Bicester - I didn't think they did? And given I was talking about people for Berko hopefully not driving through Chesham to park at Amersham station, I certainly didn't mean increasing trains to Amersham.

So, somewhere outside Nottingham with no current passenger rail connections

At least it has rail connections and shouldn't be too hard to link in with the passenger network - you'd need a chord near Trowell to allow Nottingham access to the station from North as well as South, so as to allow Derby and Leicester to Nottingham services to call there (and thus serve those other cities). Poor Beeston - I guess those stations can have the Nottingham-Sheffield stoppers or extended trains from the east running to Toton.

NET only needs a very short extension to serve Toton - unlike [stn]EMD[/stn]

branch to Crewe instead of placing Crewe on a loop.

Crewe on a loop would be worse - what purpose would Manchester to Crewe services on HSR do? Not as bad as going to Manchester via Crewe though.

Oh wait, swt_passenger reads it as exactly that, so it might be the case. :cry:

Displacing the Toton station to East Midlands Parkway would save a lot of bother (and finally make [stn]EMD[/stn] useful for something) since its existing services could carry people into Nottingham, Derby and Leicester much more easily than having to divert existing services into Toton to cope with it.

Totally agree - though you would have to have a longer NET extension to the Airport than Stapleford-Totton. It's about the same for cars - you are by the M1 and decent routes to Derby and Nottingham.

Ideally, Piccadilly would be a through station to allow through running to Preston, Carlisle and Glasgow, but most likely that's what the Crewe branch is for, although that would serve Liverpool and Holyhead as well. Routing Glasgow trains through Manchester cuts off Warrington and Wigan, but I'd still consider doing so for the sake of the Manchester-Glasgow market.

And for the journey times - Crewe has added 5 minutes to Manchester - I'd say it's a ten minute add on to Preston times since the last spec which went the straight line route and met the WCML north of Warrington. 30 miles more classic line running Liverpool gets better than leaving HS2 at Lichfield, but also loses about 5 minutes over a route meeting the WCML further north - Weaver Junction or Culceth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The "likely" location of the Leeds branch junction at the M6/M42, along with the other "likely" location of the two Heathrow junctions and the Manchester junction has been available on the HS2 website since at least last summer. http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/node/5691

Two Heathrow junctions? I guess there is actually some benefit in having the branch if it still serves London afterwards (the business case for a spur is dire - every £1 you spend, you get about 30p back - and that ignores dis-benefits of having a spur other than the capital outlay of building and running it. If a wizard offered to magic a complete spur into place for nothing, HS2 Ltd would probably say "no thanks" as it would still not be worth it).

 

[steamdrivenand]

Routing Glasgow trains through Manchester cuts off Warrington and Wigan, but I'd still consider doing so for the sake of the Manchester-Glasgow market.

Thing is that if you put Manc and Man Airport on spurs with triangles and the main HS linking to the WCML northwards you can have either through trains in either direction or in and outs from north or south without the expense of a through Manchester line. That caters for the Glasgow market and a spur to the west could cover Warrington etc with the WCML going straight on for Wigan and points north.

It seems a neat solution until Scotland decides whether it hangs east or west.

 

[Chris125]

So, somewhere outside Nottingham with no current passenger rail connections, somewhere outside Sheffield but with rail connections, an airport with rail connections, a station in central Manchester and a branch to Crewe instead of placing Crewe on a loop.

Sounds good to me - the whole point of the exercise is to look at the various option's and weigh up the pro's and con's, of course East Midlands Parkway would have some advantages over Toton, but the opposite is true as well.

On a different subject we have moronic HS2 story of the day - apparently Stratford International should be used instead of Euston because it has spare platforms and you can connect to Heathrow via Crossrail... :roll:

Chris

 

[steamdrivenand]

Sounds good to me - the whole point of the exercise is to look at the various option's and weigh up the pro's and con's, of course East Midlands Parkway would have some advantages over Toton, but the opposite is true as well.

On a different subject we have moronic HS2 story of the day - apparently Stratford International should be used instead of Euston because it has spare platforms and you can connect to Heathrow via Crossrail... :roll:

Chris

Personally I've never been happy with the idea of Euston serving a line that heads due west of London and wondered why HS2 doesn't head due north/northwest from there. But using Stratford instead is just silly.

An extended Padd if you have to go west, or even Marylebone would make more sense.

 

[tbtc]

Some hints from the Telegraph, the route is to be announced this week.

- Toton sidings for Nottingham
- Meadowhall for Sheffield
- Manchester Airport
- Manchester Piccadilly
- branch to Crewe

Nothing too surprising there....

Chris

All of which sounds okay (not necessarily fantastic/ ideal, but certainly okay).

Toton can obviously have connecting trains to Nottingham (and Derby etc) without much in the way of new infrastructure.

Meadowhall is a price worth paying to get a Sheffield station (this city isn't important enough to warrant its own city centre diversion, and Meadowhall has plenty of local trains/ trams/ buses/ motorway access).

Manchester Airport? It's imperative that everywhere has a link to this place (?), so no surprise that it get an HS2 station

 

[33Hz]

Two Heathrow junctions? I guess there is actually some benefit in having the branch if it still serves London afterwards

Agreed

It seems a neat solution until Scotland decides whether it hangs east or west.

Given there is a major English conurbation in the North East, that decision should be made for them. Else we'll be paying for line through miles and miles of difficult countryside.

Personally I've never been happy with the idea of Euston serving a line that heads due west of London

Why not. We have one coming out of St Pancras heading south east...

 

[swt_passenger]

The "likely" location of the Leeds branch junction at the M6/M42, along with the other "likely" location of the two Heathrow junctions and the Manchester junction has been available on the HS2 website since at least last summer. http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/node/5691

Yes I was really just referring to the fact that the info had appeared initially and then went away again (and as you show in your links had come back) - which led at one time to erroneous assumptions that the Leeds junction would also be near Lichfield as well - which was always highly unlikely if not impossible...

 

[Haydn1971]

Meadowhall makes more sense, direct trains to most of the West Riding can access it, but it's still considerably out of Sheffield.

Whilst I can clearly see Meadowhall being easier to accommodate online of a north-south line, I can't help thinking that something considerable will be needed around Meadowhall to make a station there more viable, making a large mixed use development site around the J34 area.

I'd also imagine some kind of improvement to service frequency of the South Transpennine Express, especially between Sheffield and Doncaster to a 15 minute frequency, to service the existing need plus the potential 2 trains in each direction stopping frequency of the HS2 service.

I'd like of course to see a city centre station, but really can't see the cost of tunnels required being justified for a 2tph service (more likely 1tph), nor see a spur getting close enough to make a big enough difference over a Meadowhall online station.