Why cant FCC get the carriages the same way round?

[GodAtum]

I'm at my wits end really I travel in 1st class and FCC to St Pancras they never put the 1st class end in the same place. I've had to travel via Victoria because Southern can guarantee which end 1st is at :roll:

Ive tried standing in the middle of the 8 coaches but still had to run either to the front or rear! Luckliy I've got a seat but its such a pain.

 

[cjohnson]

I imagine this is due to trains which are diagrammed to use the Wimbledon loop - hence 1st class might be at either end. (Don't the boards at St Pancras say which end 1st class is at?)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm at my wits end really I travel in 1st class and FCC to St Pancras they never put the 1st class end in the same place. I've had to travel via Victoria because Southern can guarantee which end 1st is at :roll:

Ive tried standing in the middle of the 8 coaches but still had to run either to the front or rear! Luckliy I've got a seat but its such a pain.

First-world problems, eh?

 

[tsr]

Interestingly, the 0724 Brighton-Bedford via Redhill seems, about 8 out of 10 times, to be formed of a 319 with First Class at the back of the rear unit. Having the allotted unit run the opposite way round at no notice is really quite fun, because there is extra Standard Class accommodation right by the stairs at Redhill, which is extremely useful.

 

[TheEdge]

I travel in 1st class and FCC to St Pancras they never put the 1st class end in the same place. I've had to travel via Victoria because Southern can guarantee which end 1st is at :roll:

I'm sorry, let me get this straight. You changed train operator because they can guarantee and what end of the train 1st class will be.

Oh dear.

 

[Goatboy]

I'm sorry, let me get this straight. You changed train operator because they can guarantee and what end of the train 1st class will be.

Oh dear.

To be honest you can imagine how annoying it might be to often have to make your way right through an 8+ car packed commuter train because you stood at the wrong end of the platform because nobody knew which end was the correct end..

 

[mrcheek]

I often get this problem when waiting for XC services at Birmingham. Sometimes the board is helpful enough to say which end First Class is going to be at. Most of the time, its wrong!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Someone clumps around the sidings at say Bedford in the small hours and must log into the system the 1st class position which is then distributed out via the CS system along the trains /unit schedule - works pretty well in my view even though as a commuter I now pay standard class. Disruption of service and the "loop" occasionally cause havoc , but this was a well deserved and good initiative in my view. Shame we don't have the old grey and yellow blob livery which clearly identified the 1st as the train ran in....!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Virgin XC had the cunning idea of a yellow stripe on the 22x coupler to indicate the 1st class (sorry club class) for the savvy to note.

310 units had a 2 dot , 3 dot headcode indicator ....(going back a bit here)

 

[Furrball]

FirstCC getting the trains to run on time and with the correct number of carriages at the moment is probably more important to most people than where 1st class is positioned!

 

[rebmcr]

Virgin XC had the cunning idea of a yellow stripe on the 22x coupler to indicate the 1st class (sorry club class) for the savvy to note.

185s have that too, it's even on posters at stations (the ones with a 185 & 170 seating plan on).

 

[PR1Berske]

I try - genuinely, honestly I try - to respect and understand the concerns of people on this forum because many problems are universal. Delays, unexpected platform alterations, ugly typefaces on new franchise holders, you know the type of things

Not receiving information pertaining to the position of the First Class carriage within a reasonable time MIGHT, I repeat might, be a reasonable concern where it not for you admitting that you've switched TOC on that basis alone!

Oh, and indeed, dear!

 

[GodAtum]

Sometimes the boards say where 1st is, but mostly they dont. Of course FCC 377s are easy because they are always at the front or end!

 

[Class377/5]

Sometimes the boards say where 1st is, but mostly they dont. Of course FCC 377s are easy because they are always at the front or end!

Half the 377/5 first class was declassified last year so its the same as the 319's.

Atleast with the 700 fleet you won't have this problem as you'll always know where it will be (long as you pay attention to how long the train is).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surely when services are formed of 8 or 12 cars, there'd be 2 or 3 separate first class sections anyway?

 

[Bald Rick]

Having studied this problem at length, I can proffer a solution to the gentleman's problem. This provides a contingency in the event that the CIS does not display the location of first class, or that it is to be distrusted.

Almost all TL 8 car services that have any first class are formed of 2 units each with a first class compartment. Each of these first class compartments can only be at the front or back of their respective four car unit.

Therefore, stand at the point of the platform precisely in the mid point of either of the 4 car units. As the front coach of that unit comes into view, check for the first class marker by the door (visible from a good 20m away) to determine whether it is at the front or back of that unit. Once determined, walk the 35 metres to the appropriate door, which should take no longer than 20 seconds, or approximately the same time it takes for the train to come to a stand, the doors to be released and opened. Board the train, raising an eyebrow of superiority at your fellow commuters as you enter the sanctity of the first class compartment. For additional enjoyment, ask anyone in there to produce their first class ticket, especially if they have boarded at Elstree & Borehamwood.

 

[12CSVT]

For additional enjoyment, ask anyone in there to produce their first class ticket, especially if they have boarded at Elstree & Borehamwood.

The only flaw is that the all stations services between St Albans and St Pancras will very likely to be advertised as being standard class only, therefore 1st class will be declassified.

You could ask those boarding at Leagrave for their first class ticket.

 

[asylumxl]

The only flaw is that the all stations services between St Albans and St Pancras will very likely to be advertised as being standard class only, therefore 1st class will be declassified.

You could ask those boarding at Leagrave for their first class ticket.

Why Leagrave? Are we only talking about Sutton loop trains or are we talking about all FCC services?

 

[jopsuk]

I'd presume the 700s are likely to have 1st arranged as on the 365s (except larger sections) at either end.

Whilst the 317s still seem pretty random at Greater Anglia (with two different layouts, 1st could be in any of the four carriages- though the /6s have a black triangle on the 1st class end) the 379s seem to be avoiding being turned.

 

[12CSVT]

Why Leagrave? Are we only talking about Sutton loop trains or are we talking about all FCC services?

Leagrave is normally served by Bedford - Brighton services, where 1st class isn't declassified. As for my previous post, Leagrave isn't exactly the nicest of places served by the Thameslink route.

 

[asylumxl]

Leagrave is normally served by Bedford - Brighton services, where 1st class isn't declassified. As for my previous post, Leagrave isn't exactly the nicest of places served by the Thameslink route.

Which is what I assumed in my post.

I personally don't think that Leagrave is that bad. In all honesty Harpenden and Radlett (supposedly better areas) see plenty of fare evasion and don't get me started on Borehamwood...

 

[12CSVT]

I personally don't think that Leagrave is that bad

I wouldn't want to be there late evening.

 

[asylumxl]

I wouldn't want to be there late evening.

I have been there in the evening (rarely) and not had any issues.

Go to Borehamwood and see all the drunken imbreds fighting on the platform then tell me what you think of Leagrave.

 

[HH]

There's another trick on units with pantographs, so that you can see which orientation the carriage is in. Gives you a head start...

 

[Class377/5]

I'd presume the 700s are likely to have 1st arranged as on the 365s (except larger sections) at either end.

Whilst the 317s still seem pretty random at Greater Anglia (with two different layouts, 1st could be in any of the four carriages- though the /6s have a black triangle on the 1st class end) the 379s seem to be avoiding being turned.

I know I read something about first class locations, Siemens have build the Desiro with it in the middle.

Also one factor is all other TOCs have London direction being in one direction. But this isn't true of Thameslink as from Brighton, London end is north but from Bedford it's south.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is another flaw - as when your first class advertised train arrives sans le facilité. As per 1H85 this morning. Hoist by one's own pétard.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The odd purge on a semi-fast with TTI staff south of Elstree generally resulted in a good number of penalty fares ....1st tends to get invaded when the trains are wedged thus denigrating the experience for those who have correctly paid the fare.

 

[GoByThameslink]

I know I read something about first class locations, Siemens have build the Desiro with it in the middle.

Also one factor is all other TOCs have London direction being in one direction. But this isn't true of Thameslink as from Brighton, London end is north but from Bedford it's south.

The 700s apparently will have a 'dynamic' first class - one that can be converted between first and standard class by the operator as demand ebbs and flows. For FCC a challenge is that there is a lot more demand from first class travellers between Brighton and central London compared to Bedford to central London. It will be 'fun' if a section starts standard class at Bedford and becomes first class somewhere in central London.

 

[asylumxl]

The 700s apparently will have a 'dynamic' first class - one that can be converted between first and standard class by the operator as demand ebbs and flows. For FCC a challenge is that there is a lot more demand from first class travellers between Brighton and central London compared to Bedford to central London. It will be 'fun' if a section starts standard class at Bedford and becomes first class somewhere in central London.

A man from Siemens comes and puts a doily on the seat. Instant first class.

 

[Class377/5]

The 700s apparently will have a 'dynamic' first class - one that can be converted between first and standard class by the operator as demand ebbs and flows. For FCC a challenge is that there is a lot more demand from first class travellers between Brighton and central London compared to Bedford to central London. It will be 'fun' if a section starts standard class at Bedford and becomes first class somewhere in central London.

The first class will be a fixed area. The whole inside of the units is easily reconfigurable so it can be moved around but plan is for fixed first class positions. Remember these trains are designed around reconfiguring, like adding or taking carriages away is not that hard in a depot and just needs a version of normal software.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is another flaw - as when your first class advertised train arrives sans le facilité. As per 1H85 this morning. Hoist by one's own pétard.

Advertised on platform?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

FCC need to get the world the right way round before they can start on anything else. Is it a coincidence that the two worse train operators in Britain (probably Europe) share a large stretch of common track?