DJH1971
Established Member
Yes, Stalybridge is a given for the substation when the Pennines get wired.
Any news on the timeframe for that?
Yes, Stalybridge is a given for the substation when the Pennines get wired.
Some major earthworks going on around huyton quarry, looks like a new access road being built??
Might it be for the eastern end of the 3/4-track section now being built?
I've seen a track diagram but can't relate it to the real world.
Balfour Beatty must also be about to open an access point for Phase 2 construction somewhere along this stretch.
Latest rumours are 2020 is the deadline for the withdrawal of Pacers due to the fact that the toilet is too small for wheelchairs.
There are only two ways around it -
1) Make the Toilet larger but this will mean even less seats on an already small train! So very impractical.
2) Keep Pacers on journeys that are a maximum of 30 minutes in length. This is the maximum legal requirement of a train journey without a Toilet. This would be impractical as there are not many journeys that are a maximum of half an hour, many Pacer journeys are in fact an hour and a half.
It's not rumour, that's the deadline for all DDA modifications to have been made to rolling stock. This isn't just toilets; the work that needs to be done to update a Pacer is economically unviable. As has been said, there are many regular train services of more than 30m duration without an onboard toilet.
The Secretary of State can simply exempt the Pacers.
This is what will happen.
...the work that needs to be done to update a Pacer is economically unviable.
Does anyone have any idea what service frequency pattern is envisaged for the stopper services out of Lime Street once the Northern Hub and elecvtification are completed? I know there'll be more faster services but I hear little about the stoppers apart from them being earmarked for the Class 319s eventually.
Nothing 100% confirmed, but understood to include (per hour)
2 TPE services via Chat Moss route.
2 locals, Liverpool - Manchester Vic and/or Stalybridge.
2 locals, Liverpool - Wigan North Western.
1 or 2 Liverpool - Preston and/or Blackpool (semi-fast).
I understand that the Lime St. - Warrington Bank Quay service may disappear, and it has been suggested that the Lime St. - Manchester Airport service could be going via Warrington Central, replacing the TPE fast service by that route.
However, everything could change before it is all completed....
It would be bad to get the rid of the Liverpool to Warrington Bank Quay (via Earlestown) as public transport between St Helens and Warrington is truly woeful to say the least.
There is a bus every 30 minutes, with a journey time of 35 minutes, running from 6am to 6pm Monday to Saturday.
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/North_West/NWSH329_300510_160510.pdf
I think that is a pretty good service between the two, especially as I would imagine Arriva would use their new fleet of buses like everywhere else in Merseyside.
Evenings and Sundays are obviously problematic, but Arriva must have considered that no sufficient customers exist!
It would be my preference for the Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay services to be extended to Chester or Ellesmere Port, maybe giving 2 trains per hour from Warrington to Chester.
Nothing 100% confirmed, but understood to include (per hour)
2 TPE services via Chat Moss route.
2 locals, Liverpool - Manchester Vic and/or Stalybridge.
2 locals, Liverpool - Wigan North Western.
1 or 2 Liverpool - Preston and/or Blackpool (semi-fast).
I understand that the Lime St. - Warrington Bank Quay service may disappear, and it has been suggested that the Lime St. - Manchester Airport service could be going via Warrington Central, replacing the TPE fast service by that route.
However, everything could change before it is all completed....
Wouldn't the approval have to come from Europe as these are European regulations?
Nothing 100% confirmed, but understood to include (per hour)
2 TPE services via Chat Moss route.
2 locals, Liverpool - Manchester Vic and/or Stalybridge.
2 locals, Liverpool - Wigan North Western.
1 or 2 Liverpool - Preston and/or Blackpool (semi-fast).
I understand that the Lime St. - Warrington Bank Quay service may disappear, and it has been suggested that the Lime St. - Manchester Airport service could be going via Warrington Central, replacing the TPE fast service by that route.
However, everything could change before it is all completed....
The Secretary of State can simply exempt the Pacers.
This is what will happen.
There's a lot of activity going on between Lowton & Golborne junctions. As this is already under wires, does anyone know what it's all about? Doubling of the latter, perhaps?
With Chat Moss route electrified, surely the idea must be to maximise the number of services using electric traction on the route. Moving the Lime Street /Manchester Airport services via the Cheshire Lines route using 150/156traction would probably seem to defeat the object if the service could use electric transaction throughout via Manchester.
My thoughts would be electrify the Cheshire Lines route with the junction east and west bound to the West Coast mainline that would serve on the Liverpool side as the HS2 route to Liverpool as it more or less dead straight to Liverpool South Park Way [[stn]LPY[/stn]].
Although it may not be possible to run at full HS2 line speeds it would almost be certainly quicker than the proposed alternative. It would allow HS2 trains running from London to Liverpool which supposedly carrying less bums on seats than Manchester services to run non stop to Warrington which is already the centre of the motorway network in the North West, instead of Crewe then on to [stn]LPY[/stn] before running in to Lime Street.
The [stn]LPY[/stn] stop would allow easier connection to Mersey Rail services which by then would have been upgraded anyway, and quick and easy transfer to John Lennon Airport. As a result three or four major airports would be linked by rail and a fully joined up transport system would be created.
I was always under the impression that the Northern Hub improvements meant an increase to 4 TPH towards Manchester at least?
The service pattern you describe there, with the exception of the TPE services, is pretty much exactly what we already have, It does seem to be rather supid to have all these capacity improvements and not use them!
I'd like to see;
2x TPE
4x Locals Liverpool-Manc
2x Locals Liverpool-Wigan
2x Blackpool Semi-fasts
Losing the LIV-MIA services would be no big loss as they don't stop anywhere useful anymore.
2x Blackpool semisfasts to make full use of the new layout at Huyton, and also because these are a popular and quick way of getting into Liverpool and St Helens from Huyton (bit biased I know!)
On Sundays you could then knock the service down to todays service pattern, probably less the Blackpool Semi-Fasts.
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Not impossible, a number of Ffestiniog railway carriages are exempt from the legislation till 2026. An act of parliament was required mind.
1. Diverting the Liverpool - Manchester Airport service would deprive St. Helens Junction of its only fast service to Manchester.
I understand that one TPE service is expected to be non-stop between Liverpool & Manchester, whilst the second service might call only at Newton Le Willows (which would not be very helpful, at it only has a tiny car park)
Whilst St Helens Junction has a much bigger car park!
1. Diverting the Liverpool - Manchester Airport service would deprive St. Helens Junction of its only fast service to Manchester.
I understand that one TPE service is expected to be non-stop between Liverpool & Manchester, whilst the second service might call only at Newton Le Willows (which would not be very helpful, at it only has a tiny car park)
2. I don't think they could find paths for 4 stopping trains per hour over Chat Moss, in addition to 2 TPE services and some Manchester Airport / Scotland services and the Manchester - Chester / N. Wales services.
3. I think there may well be 2 semi-fasts between Liverpool, Wigan & Preston, but I suspect only one per hour will serve Blackpool - in some hours, the second path may eventually be used for a few Liverpool - Scotland services.
4. Increased passenger capacity will come from 2 car dmus being replaced by 4 car Class 319 emus (& possibly some 317s for a while, if insufficient 319s are available when electrification is complete)
Network Rail has a press item from February 4 about improvements at Lancaster which have just started: http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...and-Fleetwood-MP-sees-improvements-first-hand
and attached to it is a list of 13 locations on the north-west WCML which are being improved - including Golborne and Lowton.
However, it doesn't detail what works are involved.
Those at Lancaster are quite significant, basically making the two main platforms accessible from both directions.
The full list from the NR press item is:
Hartford, Oxenholme, Carnforth, Carnforth Steam Town,
Golborne, Lowton, Lancaster South, Wigan Springs Branch,
Balshaw Lane, Harrison Sidings, Morecambe, Euxton,
Penrith, Bamfurlong