Preston Bus Station to be demolished

[Xenophon PCDGS]

provided: http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/70-want-to-keep-bus-station-1-5271710

But do you note that the report also starts with the follow-up comment....

....."but 3/4 of the people don't want to pay for it."

 

[Nick W]

But do you note that the report also starts with the follow-up comment....

....."but 3/4 of the people don't want to pay for it."

I'm actually surprised as many as 25% of people actively want to pay for it. I suspect it's the case with pretty much everything Government provides that the majority want it but the majority don't want to pay for it. (Few would object to more healthcare and education spending and few would object to a tax cut...)

Mayor Quimby: Are those morons getting dumber or just louder?
Assistant: [checks his clipboard] Dumber, sir. They won't give up the bear patrol, but they won't pay taxes for it either."

That's why we force taxes (though not enough) on those with money to burn such as those who have cares with oversized engines or who replace their phones and computers every year.

 

[PR1Berske]

But do you note that the report also starts with the follow-up comment....

....."but 3/4 of the people don't want to pay for it."

Which is why the Council should have accepted the Rigby proposal.

 

[Ivo]

provided: http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/70-want-to-keep-bus-station-1-5271710

Not a great source. Just look at some of these statistics, in relation to the Preston Urban Area's population of roughly 260,000...

Responses: 548 (0.2% of the area) - if it was that big a deal more people would have responded!

Only use bus station monthly if at all: 54%

Bus station is far too big or an eyesore: 34% (note the lack of an intermediate between "very good" and "very bad" here; if I was neutral, which I admit I'm not, I would have voted in favour and I'm sure a large number of participants would have felt the same)

Do you accept it costs £300K p/a to maintain?

Yes: 52% (Another flaw: No "more than £300K" option, which would have been my choice)

Council Tax increase to save it?

No: 74%

Referendum?

Yes: 68% (so hopefully those who didn't bother will turn up and shoot down the activists )

Would you use a smaller bus station?

No: 39% (what?)

These statistics are hopeless and seemingly biased in favour of the facility. There is also nothing to say that the people who took part were local, or average members of the public, or even repeat participants!

In summary, I'm sorry to say that this study is about as useful a lifeboat made of iron.

 

[Clip]

I'd be careful there, remember that a lot of people who wanted Routemasters preserved forever and No Artics in London were people who never used the buses on a regular basis..

In fairness though, you don't have to use something for you wanting it to be saved.

 

[Class20]

But if you don't use something you don't have any idea what its like having to put up with it. So surly that would blur the view of those people. Their just going of what something looks like rather then how its used.

 

[Ivo]

At the end of the day, it's just a bus station that is worn out, ugly and half-empty. Does it really matter if it stays around? It would be much more effective - and attractive hopefully - if they just started from scratch.

How many bays are actually needed anyway? I'd be surprised I it was more than roughly 20 to 25.

 

[Clip]

But if you don't use something you don't have any idea what its like having to put up with it. So surly that would blur the view of those people. Their just going of what something looks like rather then how its used.

And?

Plenty of things, including railway related buildings and such like also have a great following from people who want them saved even though they dont use them - whats the difference here then?


Architectural moods shift and change all the time and if you get rid of everything that some people think of as some sort of ugly concrete block then you will have no heritage left from that era. Are you more than happy to do such a thing? If so then there is plenty of rail infrastructure around the country that you and others on here most certainly do not and never will use that should also be torn down. Christ there are signal boxes up and down the country that are of no use any more which people want to save, by yours and others ideas these too should be torn down.

I could go on but you see my point.

 

[Nick W]

Plenty of things, including railway related buildings and such like also have a great following from people who want them saved even though they dont use them - whats the difference here then?

Very well said!

I have only used Preston bus station once. I was confused getting in due to the need to use the subway (some big signs would have been nice). I certainly didn't find it attractive, but I knew there was something special about the building at the time. I immediately texted someone about it....

Off topic, but here's another treasure I just learnt about 5 minutes ago. Nothing really attractive about it and nor is it in use, but it's one of few wrought iron railway viaducts in UK. It is grade 2* listed and survived because it was two expensive to demolish (rivet by rivet). It is sadly at risk, but will hopefully make a cycle path one day.

 

[tbtc]

And?

Plenty of things, including railway related buildings and such like also have a great following from people who want them saved even though they dont use them - whats the difference here then?


Architectural moods shift and change all the time and if you get rid of everything that some people think of as some sort of ugly concrete block then you will have no heritage left from that era. Are you more than happy to do such a thing? If so then there is plenty of rail infrastructure around the country that you and others on here most certainly do not and never will use that should also be torn down. Christ there are signal boxes up and down the country that are of no use any more which people want to save, by yours and others ideas these too should be torn down.

I could go on but you see my point.

It's easy for people far away to condemn folk in Preston to a substandard loss-making bus station.

I wonder what the reaction would be if some trendy architects decided that Wakefield Kirkgate should have been preserved in its decrepit state, as its grotty subway justified English Heritage listing it?

Who'd care about the poor passengers forced to use the outdated facility as long as it was preserved?

Or what if slam door stock had been kept in service rather than modern safer trains?

 

[Nick W]

I wonder what the reaction would be if some trendy architects decided that Wakefield Kirkgate should have been preserved in its decrepit state, as its grotty subway justified English Heritage listing it?

I don't understand. Wakefield Kirkgate station has been listed since 1979? Before that it was brutally vandalised.

All we want is for Preston bus station to have the same status.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Very well said!

I have only used Preston bus station once. I was confused getting in due to the need to use the subway (some big signs would have been nice). I certainly didn't find it attractive, but I knew there was something special about the building at the time. I immediately texted someone about it....

Off topic, but here's another treasure I just learnt about 5 minutes ago. Nothing really attractive about it and nor is it in use, but it's one of few wrought iron railway viaducts in UK. It is grade 2* listed and survived because it was two expensive to demolish (rivet by rivet). It is sadly at risk, but will hopefully make a cycle path one day.

The Guild Wheel of Death comes pretty close.

 

[Clip]

It's easy for people far away to condemn folk in Preston to a substandard loss-making bus station.

I wonder what the reaction would be if some trendy architects decided that Wakefield Kirkgate should have been preserved in its decrepit state, as its grotty subway justified English Heritage listing it?

Who'd care about the poor passengers forced to use the outdated facility as long as it was preserved?

Or what if slam door stock had been kept in service rather than modern safer trains?

I didnt say condem them to a loss making bus station though. I said cut down teh stands and redevelop the whole building. Regeneration of the area can only be a good thing and keeping an iconic building like that as the focal point can only be a good thing.

 

[Ivo]

Maybe the OP (PR1Berske) should create a Poll asking for our opinions - I'm 90% certain the vote will be strongly in favour of demolition. Even better would be one split by not only opinion, but also proximity to Preston. Most if not all of us who have posted in this thread have used it - and most if not all of us who have experienced numerous other bus stations across the country (and aren't local) are in agreement that it needs to go.

With good reason too. The facility is far too big for its own good, it's an eyesore and needlessly expensive to run. For £300K a year you could run a far better facility than what is essentially an overgrown concrete block with 80 doors leading on to a gigantic roundabout - you could run a bus station that is actually fit for purpose!

Lemme provide a few links to pictures on Wikipedia. Those in favour are welcomed to look at these and then put the case forward for keeping Preston's "heritage" in favour of a well-designed (we hope!) new interchange. All of these were opened or renovated in 2000 or later.

Bristol
Eldon Square
Liverpool One
Milton Keynes Coachway
Shudehill
Swansea

...against this thing.

 

[Nick W]

All of these were opened or renovated in 2000 or later.

So perhaps it might be fairer to compare an artist's impression of a refurbished Preston bus station with half the bays removed, new retail development in place and £5m worth of refurbishment?

It should be stressed that the above scene would not be visible if the bus station was refurbished. All the stands would be removed on that side and replaced on the other side---the clear looking concrete structure above is what would be kept.

 

[Clip]

All very well showing other bus stations but you miss the point somewhat of REDEVELOPMENT of the structure.


Also Eldon square has generally been redeveloped and is not a brand new bus station. I remember the dank old one somewhat fondly too from my youth and its only been pushed out to the side rather then underneath and to the side like it used to be. The building - Eldon Square - still stands as it has done for many many years and is not a nice bulding anyway but it still stands.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So perhaps it might be fairer to compare an artist's impression of a refurbished Preston bus station with half the bays removed, new retail development in place and £5m worth of refurbishment?

That would be too easy.

No offence Ivo but its one hell of a building and one that will be missed if it got torn down.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So perhaps it might be fairer to compare an artist's impression of a refurbished Preston bus station with half the bays removed, new retail development in place and £5m worth of refurbishment?

If so, there should also be an artist's impression of the money being handed over which enabled your stated refurbishments to take place which clearly shows who was handing the money over.

These two pictures could be then labelled "Before" and "After" and be given a place of prominence in the bus station.

 

[Clip]

If so, there should also be an artist's impression of the money being handed over which enabled your stated refurbishments to take place which clearly shows who was handing the money over.

These two pictures could be then labelled "Before" and "After" and be given a place of prominence in the bus station.

I know you're only joking paul but that's as silly an idea as tearing it down.

Seems people are to obsessed with steel and glass modern things to appreciate some unique architecture

 

[Ivo]

It's not the architecture we're bothered about - it's the practicality. The building is of no real use to anyone as it is hideously overgrown and needlessly expensive to maintain - not to mention less than aesthetically pleasing. It is also a waste of prime city centre space, given each bay that is little-used is effectively a waste of 45 square metres (based on 15m x 3m, allowing for space either side of and behind stabled vehicles). It doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up to almost 2,000 - which when built upwards just five floors could become 10,000, the equivalent of one-and-a-half international football pitches.

Bath's new bus station was built on the site of a building (not the old bus station) that was of architectural value, but it had to go for the wider City Centre developments. Some people wanted the old frontage to stay for its architectural value, but that option was rejected as it was out of place - by the architects themselves!

...I need a thesaurus.

Think of it this way. If the bus station had a far more reasonable 30 stands, but was otherwise the same, would you still be campaigning?

- Seeing as this last line has apparently been mistaken by others, note that it was intended for everyone.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I know you're only joking Paul, but that's as silly an idea as tearing it down.

I just wanted a way of asking how the required refurbishment finance was forthcoming and as the post to which my response was using art in the form of an artist's impression....hence my symbolic use of artistic licence to address the matter of how the refurbishment finance was obtained.

The use of symbolic allegorical imagery in art is a well used conceptual process.

 

[Clip]

It's not the architecture we're bothered about - it's the practicality. The building is of no real use to anyone as it is hideously overgrown and needlessly expensive to maintain - not to mention less than aesthetically pleasing. It is also a waste of prime city centre space, given each bay that is little-used is effectively a waste of 45 square metres (based on 15m x 3m, allowing for space either side of and behind stabled vehicles). It doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up to almost 2,000 - which when built upwards just five floors could become 10,000, the equivalent of one-and-a-half international football pitches.

Bath's new bus station was built on the site of a building (not the old bus station) that was of architectural value, but it had to go for the wider City Centre developments. Some people wanted the old frontage to stay for its architectural value, but that option was rejected as it was out of place - by the architects themselves!

...I need a thesaurus.

Think of it this way. If the bus station had a far more reasonable 30 stands, but was otherwise the same, would you still be campaigning?

Sorry Ivo but your last line shows you have either not read a line of what I have posted or you have chosen to ignore what I have written and just continued with the same old same old.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I just wanted a way of asking how the required refurbishment finance was forthcoming and as the post to which my response was using art in the form of an artist's impression....hence my symbolic use of artistic licence to address the matter of how the refurbishment finance was obtained.

The use of symbolic allegorical imagery in art is a well used conception process.

Yeah I saw what you were getting at but early on in this thread there was a local business man prepared to stump up the money so no need to ask for anything.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yeah I saw what you were getting at but early on in this thread there was a local business man prepared to stump up the money so no need to ask for anything.

I have since amended the word to that of "conceptual" in my original posting but from what you say above, the painting could have been an artistic symbolic reference to the gift by the businessman.

Perhaps I should come more down to earth in my postings with the symbolism that I wished to so convey.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is the bus station really so unique? Admittedly it's not exactly the same (it's not quite so oversized for one thing!) but Huddersfield's bus station appears to follow the same design principle (i.e. sticking a car park on top). It's a pretty horrible building to look at but since it was refurbished in 2000 it's not a bad facility to use. 25 stands is adequate for the busiest bus station in West Yorkshire so I can't imagine Preston needs a facility double that size.

 

[Class20]

But if you don't use something you don't have any idea what its like having to put up with it. So surly that would blur the view of those people. Their just going of what something looks like rather then how its used.

And?

Plenty of things, including railway related buildings and such like also have a great following from people who want them saved even though they don't use them - whats the difference here then?


Architectural moods shift and change all the time and if you get rid of everything that some people think of as some sort of ugly concrete block then you will have no heritage left from that era. Are you more than happy to do such a thing? If so then there is plenty of rail infrastructure around the country that you and others on here most certainly do not and never will use that should also be torn down. Christ there are signal boxes up and down the country that are of no use any more which people want to save, by yours and others ideas these too should be torn down.

I could go on but you see my point.

The difference is that the bus station is a fully working building used by the public all day every day.

What I mean is that if half the people asked in a survey, asking if the bus station should stay or go, haven't used it then their view will not be the same as those who do use the bus station. They don't know how bad the bus station really is and what its like having to use it every day. If they knew that then maybe their view would be different.

I agree that there are plenty of buildings that people want to save who in turn don't use them, but that depends on what the building is used for. The railway viaduct that Nick W posted a picture off, well that's clearly not going to be used by people wanting to save it as its a railway viaduct and not a building/structure used by the general public. Yes it could be converted at a later date into a cycle way.

There are plenty of ugly concrete blocks that should be saved. But are they part of a passenger transport network that a city is trying its hardest to modernise and reduce the overall cost of running?

I can't wait for the day when it finally bites the dust. The building has had its day and we need to move on. Preston needs a much better and more modern bus station.

 

[PR1Berske]

And, so, it is done.

Source: http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/councillors-vote-to-demolish-bus-station-1-5519760

Preston councillors have voted to demolish Preston Bus Station.

Members of the city council cabinet agreed unanimously with an officers’ report which said the only viable option for the 43 year old structure was to demolish it and build a smaller station.

The committee rejected the bid of entrepreneur Simon Rigby who offered to buy the iconic bus station for £1 and keep it running as a station with a retail area.

The council report said Mr Rigby’s plans were not in the best, long term interests of taxpayers

At an earlier meeting it had been heard that Lancashire County Council had reached the conclusion that the cost of refurbishment would not be value for money. It would cost £17m to refurbish it according to consultants appointed by County Hall, councillors were previously told.

A bid to have the bus station listed by the Government is still on the table.

 

[Ivo]

And, so, it is done.

And good riddance too. I know some of you feel passionate about keeping it, but there is no economically viable reason for it to stay around.

"The committee rejected the bid of entrepreneur Simon Rigby who offered to buy the iconic bus station for £1 and keep it running as a station with a retail area."

If his offer was for £1 there would have had to be some strict requirements ensuring its use was maintained in its current form. The facility may be long past its sell-by date but even it would have had enough potential for a £1 multi-clause deal (self-made term) to be redundant.

Sorry Ivo but your last line shows you have either not read a line of what I have posted or you have chosen to ignore what I have written and just continued with the same old same old.

Neither is true - that last line was aimed at everyone, not just you (whereas the rest was specifically stated in response to your previous post). I just forgot to indicate it as such. Sorry!

Huddersfield's bus station appears to follow the same design principle (i.e. sticking a car park on top). It's a pretty horrible building to look at but since it was refurbished in 2000 it's not a bad facility to use. 25 stands is adequate for the busiest bus station in West Yorkshire so I can't imagine Preston needs a facility double that size.

I had a similar thought when I used it back in October. It certainly isn't the most appealing bus station facility as a whole but what it does have is a good location - so good in fact that at least some shop units are double-ended between the bus station and the pedestrianised area. And speaking of Huddersfield, just how many departures per hour does it get? It must be at least close to Preston in that sense. (Oh, and Preston's bus station is more than triple the size of Huddersfield's, not just double )

 

[ian1944]

I've known Preston BS on and off for about 40 years, but can't now remember the detail of what it was like in the early 70s. ISTR that Ribble used one side and the Corpy the other, but were 50 stands ever really needed? Similar-sized Bolton has always had 20ish and seemed to manage OK, and the rather larger Bradford's previous interchange (the current one shrank) had only about 30, I think.

 

[Nick W]

Bath's new bus station was built on the site of a building (not the old bus station) that was of architectural value, but it had to go for the wider City Centre developments. Some people wanted the old frontage to stay for its architectural value, but that option was rejected as it was out of place - by the architects themselves!

That was an act of brutal vandalism! Fortunately The Forum, a similar 1930s Art Deco building was listed.

This is what Bath's bus station could have been:

This is what is is:

Is the bus station really so unique? Admittedly it's not exactly the same (it's not quite so oversized for one thing!) but Huddersfield's bus station appears to follow the same design principle (i.e. sticking a car park on top)

I agree that they're not poles apart, but I think Preston is much more iconic and notable than Huddersfield's.

 

[Ivo]

The problem Bath had was that the old frontage is too dissimilar to the rest of the building, so it would look worse with it.

 

[Nick W]

The problem Bath had was that the old frontage is too dissimilar to the rest of the building, so it would look worse with it.

I believe that the old frontage was there before "the rest of the building" that you speak of. The problem was therefore with the bus station design not the building. The sooner it goes, the better.

The whole Southgate area was unfortunately already in poor shape. You can thank the Nazis and 60s developers for that. But Churchill House could have been saved and refurbished and a new bus station built on the site kindly cleared by the Luftwaffe and used as a bus station until the recent one was built.

[My next plan is try and oppose OHLE coming to Bath in favour of a steam loco being attached for the few miles through the city. In all seriousness, I think OHLE will be installed as it was done so on the Royal Border Bridge, but I wonder if would be possible for trains to coast with the pan down through the small stretch of line through Sydney Gardens:]