Preston Bus Station to be demolished

[MidnightFlyer]

[My next plan is try and oppose OHLE coming to Bath in favour of a steam loco being attached for the few miles through the city. In all seriousness, I think OHLE will be installed as it was done so on the Royal Border Bridge, but I wonder if would be possible for trains to coast with the pan down through the small stretch of line through Sydney Gardens:]

I believe there was a letter in Rail magazine not too long ago advocating using third rail through Bath with OHLE for the rest of the GWML (I won't use my usual nickname for it here ) so as not to disrupt the view through the Gardens. That would have entailed the addition of third-rail shoes to an entire AC fleet for some 5 miles among many hundreds of miles of overhead juice :roll:

 

[Nick W]

I believe there was a letter in Rail magazine not too long ago advocating using third rail through Bath with OHLE for the rest of the GWML (I won't use my usual nickname for it here ) so as not to disrupt the view through the Gardens. That would have entailed the addition of third-rail shoes to an entire AC fleet for some 5 miles among many hundreds of miles of overhead juice :roll:

It's a difficult challenge. You'd never get a motorway built through the gardens and the canal built before went around the gardens.

However Brunel wanted the railway to become a feature of the gardens! Many small monuments were removed in favour of the railway, however the railway was itself a fitting art feature!

Therefore we are left with the legacy. Installation of new barriers to meet safety legislation was controversial in Sydney Gardens, never mind power lines!

 

[Ivo]

There is only one reason why OHLE should not reach Bath...

...the number of structures that need to be renovated for it to fit (e.g. the bridges either side of Oldfield Park) :roll:

So what if the view at Sydney Gardens becomes less appealing ("less" meaning "excellent instead of outstanding")? It's Bath for Heaven's sake - there are lots of other magnificent sights to look at! And if it's railway-related things specifically you want, go to Bristol...

 

[Clip]

And, so, it is done.

Source: http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/councillors-vote-to-demolish-bus-station-1-5519760

Well sorry to hear that. Obviously steel and glass wins the day until that becomes tatty and tired looking.

No foresight or proper thinking has gone into this decision IMO and the people of Preston will miss it in a few years time.

I hope that it can be listed as a structure but with the possibility of it being redeveloped along with the whole area around it too.

 

[PR1Berske]

Well sorry to hear that. Obviously steel and glass wins the day until that becomes tatty and tired looking.

No foresight or proper thinking has gone into this decision IMO and the people of Preston will miss it in a few years time.

I hope that it can be listed as a structure but with the possibility of it being redeveloped along with the whole area around it too.

I completely agree with you

It'll cost 20x more to demolish than to repair. It just doesn't add up.

 

[snail]

It'll cost 20x more to demolish than to repair. It just doesn't add up.

Figures please. The independent report to the City Council reports £17M-£23M to bring it up to standard. Demolition will be a fraction of that, an important factor being that the County Council will foot the bill for building the replacement.

 

[PR1Berske]

Figures please. The independent report to the City Council reports £17M-£23M to bring it up to standard. Demolition will be a fraction of that, an important factor being that the County Council will foot the bill for building the replacement.

If the Council(s) can afford to:

a) Demolish the existing station
b) Commission consultants, designers and advisers to contribute a new design for its replacement
c) Build its replacement in the same place.

Then the Council(s) can afford to:

a) refurbish the existing bus station

 

[markydh]

You're missing the point completely. Preston City Council would have to find refurbishment themselves. Lancashire County Council are contributing towards the cost of a replacement. Ergo it saves Preston City Council money. Got it now?

 

[starrymarkb]

Indeed if someone else is paying for your city to have a brand new bus station to replace the one you'd have to pay to do up you'd be an idiot to refuse

 

[PR1Berske]

You're missing the point completely. Preston City Council would have to find refurbishment themselves. Lancashire County Council are contributing towards the cost of a replacement. Ergo it saves Preston City Council money. Got it now?

LCC have not made any such undertaking.

 

[tbtc]

I think Preston is much more iconic and notable than Huddersfield's

All that matters to some people is being "iconic" (rather than being good, practical, safe, cost-effective, the right size...)

 

[markydh]

LCC have not made any such undertaking.

Now you're just lying. They have set aside £8.3million exactly for this and you know full well they have.

 

[PR1Berske]

Now you're just lying. They have set aside £8.3million exactly for this and you know full well they have.

I am not lying. Lancs CC have not undertaken anything which guarantees a new station. The money they've said to put aside relates to any provision of a bus *service*, not a specific station.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am not lying. Lancs CC have not undertaken anything which guarantees a new station. The money they've said to put aside relates to any provision of a bus *service*, not a specific station.

It must be an extremely good bus service to have a figure of £8.3 million put aside towards it. Perhaps the dedicated RailUK forums team who are known to the "Stagecoach North West fleet changes" thread will be able to shed some light on this matter.

 

[PR1Berske]

It must be an extremely good bus service to have a figure of £8.3 million put aside towards it. Perhaps the dedicated RailUK forums team who are known to the "Stagecoach North West fleet changes" thread will be able to shed some light on this matter.

It's quite simple. Lancashire County Council are "willing to look at the provision of new facilities", quote from the Preston Council website.

That's not "promises to build a new station", it's not, "promises to fund a new transport interchange", it's not "promises to construct a replacement".

It's "willing" to "look at" the provision of new "facilities".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's quite simple. Lancashire County Council are "willing to look at the provision of new facilities", quote from the Preston Council website. That's not "promises to build a new station", it's not, "promises to fund a new transport interchange", it's not "promises to construct a replacement". It's "willing" to "look at" the provision of new "facilities".

This very minute, I have come off a very long and most informative telephone call to Lancashire County Council to a senior personage there who is adamant that Lancashire County Council have "ring-fenced" the monies towards a replacement bus station in Preston and not for some provision of other transport matters.

He spoke in some depth on the matter and also how much that Lancashire County Council actually have budgeted for the provision of finance towards the provision of tendered bus services in this financial year and he ventured the opinion that you have may well have been confusing that aspect of their budgetary control with the matter of the monies that they have set aside towards a replacement bus station in Preston.

Always willing to assist in bringing clarity upon matters of contention as and when I can on RailUK forums, as being a retired person, I have the time to do this on behalf of the forum membership.

 

[mbonwick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-21886581

£8.3m set aside by LCC for a new station.
Besides, do we really think the £1 offer would have worked? The chap said he'd spent £2m on refurbishment, but the council are quoting £23m. I know public sector works always seem to cost more, but those figures are a long long way apart....

 

[Nick W]

If LCC will pay for £8.3m for a new bus station, but not to refurbish the current one, that's a perversion of democracy.

 

[PR1Berske]

If LCC will pay for £8.3m for a new bus station, but not to refurbish the current one, that's a perversion of democracy.

Oh this whole affair is quite a lot of things, but most of what I could say is against libel law, never mind forum regulations!

You are absolutely right to shine a light on the absurdity of paying for a new station when the cost of demolition/consultants/rebuild is 20 times more expensive than refurbishment.

 

[markydh]

20 times? So you're now claiming it's going to cost £230million to demolish an eyesore and replace it with a new bus station. What planet are you on?!?!

 

[PR1Berske]

20 times? So you're now claiming it's going to cost £230million to demolish an eyesore and replace it with a new bus station. What planet are you on?!?!

No. I'm simply using the figures from Preston Council, figures they quote on their website and elsewhere about the cost of refurbishment.

 

[markydh]

The figure they quote on their website here is between £17million and £23.1million. It then costs nearly £300K to run every single year. In the same FAQ section, they suggest a new bus station would cost between £10.8million and £15.3million. I sincerely hope you're not a Maths teacher!

 

[Nick W]

I'm happy to use the possible figures that a new bus station will be £15m and refurbishment will be £22m. (Though I dispute the costing claiming that refurbishment costs 80% of the cost of a new bus station per square metre!).

However!
For the claimed difference of £7m you get the following:

• A multistory cark park instead of a flat one
• 1,000 sq m of internal retail space (rough estimate, increase if you think the bus station is even more oversized!) paid for as part of the refurbishment
• 8,000 sq m of land saved by not building a replacement surface car park (since there is a car park on the bus station).

Now I know the area is run down and underdeveloped now, and that the land is virtually worthless (it already has a lot of car parks which, of course, undermine the viability of the bus station car park). But, if you have any belief that the area can be generated and the land built upon, attractive more traffic, you should acknowledge that the refurbishment is better value for money.

If you don't believe the car park can be viable or you wish not to attract more car traffic (I agree), then convert it into retail space, a nightclub, office space a museum!

If, and only if, you see the area remaining in its near derelict state for the next 40 years, then I of course agree with you that a new bus station is better value for money.

 

[Clip]

You don't even need to keep the car park. Forward thinking with good development would mean you get rid of the car park, halve the bus stands(because as we keep being told there are too many!?!) Then build on top of it too. Extend it over one side which will cancel out half the stands and so on and so forth. You would end up in a couple of years as a major shopping and entertainment destination in preston
And even better if the council told all the bus operators that they must either terminate or pass through the bus station.

All it takes is proper thinking. But it seems to be short of it up there and on here at times.

 

[yorkie]

It'll cost 20x more to demolish than to repair. .

This seems unlikely to me. Can you provide some figures, and a source please?

 

[Accura]

And even better if the council told all the bus operators that they must either terminate or pass through the bus station.

All bus services do connect or terminate at the bus station. Passengers simply choose not to use it. The only services which don't use it are the Park and Ride and the night buses (because it is closed).

 

[snail]

I'm happy to use the possible figures that a new bus station will be £15m and refurbishment will be £22m. (Though I dispute the costing claiming that refurbishment costs 80% of the cost of a new bus station per square metre!).

However!
For the claimed difference of £7m you get the following:

• A multistory cark park instead of a flat one
• 1,000 sq m of internal retail space (rough estimate, increase if you think the bus station is even more oversized!) paid for as part of the refurbishment
• 8,000 sq m of land saved by not building a replacement surface car park (since there is a car park on the bus station).

You conveniently overlook the £300,000 annual running cost of a refurbished facility. The capital refurbishment cost includes making the car park fit for purpose. It has narrow roadways and bays, with lifts and parking spaces that are not compliant with Equality Act (formerly DDA) requirements.

As for Mr Rigby's offer, the quote included earlier from the LEP omitted the explanation from Council officials that one reason for turning him down was his refusal to commit to keeping the building as a bus station long term. Why would he do that, one would ask?

 

[Clip]

You conveniently overlook the £300,000 annual running cost of a refurbished facility. The capital refurbishment cost includes making the car park fit for purpose. It has narrow roadways and bays, with lifts and parking spaces that are not compliant with Equality Act (formerly DDA) requirements.

As for Mr Rigby's offer, the quote included earlier from the LEP omitted the explanation from Council officials that one reason for turning him down was his refusal to commit to keeping the building as a bus station long term. Why would he do that, one would ask?

And you are forgetting that by refurbishing the building that the 300K costs would be significantly reduced as the building would not need that amount of maintenence per year as it would be fit for purpose.

But don't let that fact get in the way.

No idea why rigby wouldn't commit to it, a reasonable developer would for at least 100 years

 

[snail]

And you are forgetting that by refurbishing the building that the 300K costs would be significantly reduced as the building would not need that amount of maintenence per year as it would be fit for purpose.

Good point. It was £297,000 last year and would likely be significantly less if brought up to standard. But it would still be more costly than a modern purpose built building.

No idea why rigby wouldn't commit to it, a reasonable developer would for at least 100 years

Have you answered your own question? He wanted to buy it for £1 and spend just £2M on refurbishment with no commitment as to future use.

 

[markydh]

He wanted to spend £2million on 'repairs and some improvements'. I rather suspect all the good folk of Preston would have got from him is a slightly less damp eyesore that was maybe a bit less awful to be in. Whereas they now have a new, modern, fit purpose facility to look forward to. There is absolutely no logical reason why anyone is opposed to this. Yes, it's a unique example of Brutalist archetecture. But so was the Get Carter car park in Gateshead and you don't see many people bemoaning its loss. Nor do you see many mourning the loss of the equally awful Bank of England building in Newcastle that was recently demolished.