Missing platforms / Unused Platforms & other bits

[JB25]

I'm sure I can think of others if I try harder but these are a couple that I can think of that confuse me that no one seems to have an answer for...

• Why is there no platform 7 at London Bridge?

• Why is platform 2/3 at West Croydon together?

• Is Platform 7 at Norwood Jct not used ever, if not why does it have platform numbers?

• Why is Platform 3 at Norwood not number 2 and so on?

• Why do a lot of the signals going into Norwood Jct especially on the downs have calling on signals? I have never seen permissive working there?

• Why is there a random stop board (quite new looking at that!)'stuck out in the grass near Norwood Jct?

• Why do they not use the platform / bay platform that is next to the old Platform 4 at Crystal Palace station?

Please feel free to add your own random queries...

 

[jnjkerbin]

This thread may help with regard to London Bridge.

 

[bicbasher]

West Croydon: Platform 2 was originally a bay platform for Wimbledon branch services which closed with the Tramlink project. Since then platform 3 has been extended for 10 car services.

Norwood Junction: Platform's 1-2 are level with each other, so technically the driver could open the doors on both sides. This would have been useful in the days of slam door services for transferring between metro and fast services to London Bridge. Platform 3 on the 2-3 island is for fast services.

Platform 7 hasn't been used for years, however the South London RUS suggested bringing it back in use and diverting Beckenham Junction Southern services to terminate there.

 

[JB25]

Platform 7 hasn't been used for years .

Fair enough, I just don't get why it's "published" as a platform though.
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• Platform 4 at Horsham why is there a weird signal halfway along the platform? Weirdest set up I have come across.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

• Why do a lot of the signals going into Norwood Jct especially on the downs have calling on signals? I have never seen permissive working there?

There are plenty of shunt moves around Norwood Junction, particularly to and from Selhurst Depot.

 

[JB25]

I know about shunts into the depot but the effective "home signals" on the Down fast and slow going towards Norwood Jct have calling on signals for permissive working. I have never seen these used ever and wonder if they are now defunct... They can't be for crossing onto other lines as there are already junction indicators on these signals.

For example...

The main aspect going into Platform 6 you also have Route indicator 4 taking you into platform 5, route indicator 5 taking you into platform 4 and a calling on signal...

 

[SemaphoreSam]

Clapham Junction: Old Platform 1, now Platform 0. When was it last in scheduled usage, why was it taken out of service, is it anticipated for future use, and what was its traditional usage, that is, where did trains using it usually operate to? I assume for a left turn out of the station, and forward towards the North, but I'm not sure. Thanks, Sam

 

[JB25]

I know the up Platform at Chessington South has never been used but is there an access to it?

 

[Quakers Yard]

Platform five at Cardiff Central...

 

[causton]

Clapham Junction: Old Platform 1, now Platform 0. When was it last in scheduled usage, why was it taken out of service, is it anticipated for future use, and what was its traditional usage, that is, where did trains using it usually operate to? I assume for a left turn out of the station, and forward towards the North, but I'm not sure. Thanks, Sam

I would have guessed that it was towards Kensington Olympia etc, but seeing as the Overground decided not to use it and there are currently other structures (a permanent-looking Network Rail portacabin and some signalling equipment too IIRC) blocking the trackbed I would presume it would not be in use for a long time - if ever! Last I heard the bridge was too weak now to take a train without strengthening!

 

[30907]

P1 at Clapham Jn was for the West London Line - doubt if it has been much used apart from for vans since the First World War when it WLL lost its regular passenger service. There was of course the "Kenny Belle" in more recent years but I can't remember which platform it used.

The original Crystal Palace LL (the Sydenham side) lost its reason for existence rather when the Palace burnt down in 1936. I only ever remember (60's onwards) the bays being used as carriage sidings, and I don't think the two middle sidings (where the new Overground platform is) were used at all.

I can see three reasons for the northernmost bay not being reinstated for Overground and the new island preferred -
1. awkward access for arriving trains for turnback purposes
2. it's rather narrow for dealing with crowds
3. It's tight for length (for 8 cars) by modern standards - 8-SUB only just fitted.
It may also have been difficult to sort wheelchair access

 

[PHILIPE]

Platform five at Cardiff Central...

It was a West facing Bay

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Stafford has five platforms numbered 1, 3, 4, 5 & 6. I believe platform 2 used to be a bay that is no longer in use.

There is also an unnumbered platform which had something to do with parcels trains.

 

[John Webb]

Fair enough, I just don't get why it's "published" as a platform though.
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• Platform 4 at Horsham why is there a weird signal halfway along the platform? Weirdest set up I have come across.

Got a picture of this signal you can show us? We might be able to explain it then!

Or is it this one:
Horsham Station

© Copyright Nigel Chadwick and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

 

[edwin_m]

Bristol Parkway only has 2, 3 and 4. I believe when the current platform 4 was added, the former 1 became 3 because of the possibility of adding another platform later on the back of platform 2.

 

[JB25]

Got a picture of this signal you can show us? We might be able to explain it then!

Unfortunately I don't have a picture, only witnessed it whilst driving. I literally crapped my pants first time I saw it, coming into the Platform at 15mph suddenly there's a red signal in front of me about 1/4 - 1/2 way along the platform which changed to a single yellow thankfully (the platform was empty btw!), and then there is a red at the end of the platform.

I have only started in service once on Platform 4 at Horsham... The "little" signal went to single yellow, I got the tip and Right Away, but then had to stop at the actual platform starter signal which was at red (again probably 1/4 - 1/2 a platform away) and wait to get the road and a proceed aspect. Rather odd and not seen anything like it anywhere else.

 

[Railsigns]

Unfortunately I don't have a picture, only witnessed it whilst driving. I literally crapped my pants first time I saw it, coming into the Platform at 15mph suddenly there's a red signal in front of me about 1/4 - 1/2 way along the platform which changed to a single yellow thankfully (the platform was empty btw!), and then there is a red at the end of the platform.

Is route learning optional for train drivers nowadays?

 

[JB25]

Is route learning optional for train drivers nowadays?

I was about 15 hours into my 225 hours at the time and probably won't sign Horsham's for at least ten years yet.
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Got a picture of this signal you can show us? We might be able to explain it then!

Or is it this one:
Horsham Station

© Copyright Nigel Chadwick and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

That's the signal John.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Mid platform signals are fairly common on the network.

 

[martinsh]

Stafford has five platforms numbered 1, 3, 4, 5 & 6. I believe platform 2 used to be a bay that is no longer in use.

There is also an unnumbered platform which had something to do with parcels trains.

Yes - platform 2 was a bay at north end of platform 1 that is now a car park.

 

[cmjcf]

It was a West facing Bay

Correct. If you look at an aerial view, you'll find that the west end of the 3/4 island doesn't taper like the rest. It may or may not be coming back under the redevelopment that's going on at the moment.

On a related note, when it eventually opens the new P5 at Queen Street will be the only P5 in operation anywhere in Wales.

 

[John Webb]

........That's the signal John.

It's a not uncommon arrangement. I don't know the service details over this line but with a junction of two lines nearby I assume this allows one train into the platform and then another to come up behind it possibly before coupling together.
If it was red as you approached and turned yellow as you got closer it must be approach controlled in order to ensure trains are checked to the right speed to stop at the end of the platform if the platform end signal is displaying Red. The platform appears curved in the picture, so I assume the platform end signal can't be seen and it's therefore acting in effect like a repeater as well as the shunting function above.

 

[W230]

I know about shunts into the depot but the effective "home signals" on the Down fast and slow going towards Norwood Jct have calling on signals for permissive working. I have never seen these used ever and wonder if they are now defunct... They can't be for crossing onto other lines as there are already junction indicators on these signals.

On this point, I noticed the same when approaching Gatwick on the Up Fast & Up Slow. Also got them for permissive working but know one seems to have ever used them or even seen them in use.

 

[edwin_m]

The predecessor of the Gatwick Express was a special sub-fleet of EMUs (4-VEG I think) which were split and joined at Gatwick to trains to/from further south. Subsidiary aspects would have been needed on the Up lines approaching Gatwick to allow this joining move to take place.

I can't remember whether the current signalling was introduced before this practice finished. Even if it wasn't, someone may have decided during the design process that it was worth retaining the sub aspects in case a similar working was needed again.

 

[Muzer]

Only platform layout that AFAIR could be constituted as weird around me is Salisbury, whech has six platforms, two of which are unused for passengers, but the original numbering was kept - so you have the disused and unnumbered Platform 1, then Platform 2 and 3 on an island, then Platform 4, disused and unnumbered Western bay platform 5, and finally bay platform 6 - so you have platforms 2-4 and 6, no 1 or 5 numbered.

 

[jopsuk]

Stirling has no platform 1 (there's a car park built over it). The main platforms in use are 2 & 3, plus 6 for Alloa services in both directions. 4 & 5 are offcially not in use (though are used for stabling), I've never seen a service 7 or 8, and for some reason in my experience 10 is used more than 9 (they're a terminal "island" pair).

Even after the recent renumbering, Edinburgh Waverly still doesn't have a platform 5 or 6. The unused platform face on the same track as platform 18 is un-numbered (this is different to many other stations with tracks with two platform faces, only one in use)

 

[Railsigns]

Stirling has no platform 1 (there's a car park built over it). The main platforms in use are 2 & 3, plus 6 for Alloa services in both directions. 4 & 5 are offcially not in use (though are used for stabling), I've never seen a service 7 or 8,

Platforms 7 and 8 are currently only signalled for departing passenger trains. When the new signalling and layout comes into use in October, they'll be available for arriving passenger trains as well.

and for some reason in my experience 10 is used more than 9 (they're a terminal "island" pair)

9 is a through platform, currently only available to Up direction (southbound) trains.

 

[30907]

Only platform layout that AFAIR could be constituted as weird around me is Salisbury, whech has six platforms, two of which are unused for passengers, but the original numbering was kept - so you have the disused and unnumbered Platform 1, then Platform 2 and 3 on an island, then Platform 4, disused and unnumbered Western bay platform 5, and finally bay platform 6 - so you have platforms 2-4 and 6, no 1 or 5 numbered.

But 1 (and even 5) could (in theory) be brought back into use in future, so there's some logic in not re-numbering the rest.

 

[Eagle]

But 1 (and even 5) could (in theory) be brought back into use in future, so there's some logic in not re-numbering the rest.

5 is not technically disused, it's still fully signalled and everything. It's just that there are no services that need to use it (the only services that terminate from the west are at the end of service), although you'll sometimes see units in there after coming out of the nearby depot.

1 is signalled as a reception siding, and is only accessible from the depot. Additionally passengers are banned from the platform and the subway leading to it.
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I've never seen a service use 7 or 8...

It's only the first train on a Sunday that ever uses platform 8, and it's the unit that stabled there overnight. Saves having to shunt it over to the usual bay platform 10.

Same goes for platform 1 at Leamington, the only service to use it is this one in the morning, again using the unit that stabled in it overnight.

 

[Trainfan344]

Why is the Platform 4 at Lowestoft not in use as often as the other two?