First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[vicbury]

I have to admit I was puzzled when I saw a frequency of every 9 minutes on the First website. It was only by chance that I was using an app (UK Bus Times - Catch That Bus) on my phone that I noticed it was showing as every 10 minutes.

Ah well, mistakes happen I guess. And it's good that Traveline rapidly updated their website; let's hope the bus stops get updated soon.

How is the increased frequency on the 14 on Sundays doing? I travelled twice today and in both directions loadings were pretty good. I hope it's to be a permanent move. With the 1 now running to Upper Weston on Sundays as well I've never had it so good!

 

[Ivo]

Sundays seem to be going very well on the 14. I've used it a few times and - as much as I don't want to admit it - the SPDs seem pretty good on it even on Sundays owing to the higher loadings. There does seem to be a lack of awareness about the 14A not running among non-users - including non-14 drivers - though!

Also, I've sent them an e-mail asking them to provide me with basic frequency information where this might be a problem in future. Had I known for certain the 14 was being changed to a nine-minute frequency back in February, this would never have happened - and I am keen to ensure a repeat is not on the cards, especially with 18 changes on the horizon.

 

[vicbury]

Let's not go tempting the SPDs on the 14 on Sundays. This is the only day of the week on which we are currently guaranteed at least an 05-plate (today it appeared to be at least two Enviro 200s and one 05 Dart) and I can finally have a comfortable journey!

I'll let you know if I spot any timetable issues in the future.

 

[Ivo]

Quoted from the website:

"Specifically from 24 March buses will operate at least every 10 minutes throughout the day (Monday - Friday) across the whole route."

What does that mean? Does it run every 10, then 3, then 8, then ½, then 4, and then 10 again? How are we supposed to know? (Also, I think the leaflet says "at least 10". I always wondered what it meant by this.)

I'll let you know if I spot any timetable issues in the future.

Thank you. If anyone else spots anything, please let me know.

 

[vicbury]

Well, it's more helpful than this!

 

[Ivo]

I've written about this 14 issue on my blog, and have placed a formal apology on there as well. (Not that I really have anything to apologise about, but hey.)

Well, it's more helpful than this!

Oh, yes. The famous York Park & Ride. Urgh. I went on Service 2 once, and it was a real nightmare! The situation wasn't helped by having to wait at the Rawcliffe Bar end for the bus behind my one because my friend was finishing his ice cream and wasn't allowed to board

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've written about this 14 issue on my blog, and have placed a formal apology on there as well. (Not that I really have anything to apologise about, but hey.)

Don't know what you're getting so bothered about. It's either First or Traveline who are responsible. Doubt if anyone will lay any blame at your door. Similarly, you wouldn't be the first person ever to be told one thing, and then for that to be changed (even subtly). The 265 (Salisbury extension) was probably something that had to be kept under wraps (if only for the Bodman drivers' sake) whilst newer buses may be something that they are perhaps planning for but will need to see the financial case stacks up.

These things happen so relax - get yourself a FDSW and have a trip to the coast!
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I

For example, the vehicle that I travelled on today had the following defects:

• Excessive vibration from engine when idling
• Knocking from rear suspension
• Defective GPS tracker (ticket machine said in service, display above driver said not in service; vehicle did not appear on RTI display
• Loose interior trim
• Damage to bodywork

I'm sure if I was given the chance to inspect said vehicle I could find even more wrong with it.

Which leads on to another question, are the vehicles in Bath actually safe? What would a VOSA inspection unearth?

Be careful; cosmetic appearance and legal compliance are not one and the same. As mentioned earlier, the driver is responsible for taking out any vehicle (he/she is legally liable not just the operator) so won't be taking anything out they shouldn't be. Furthermore, these vehicles are getting serviced every 6 weeks (at least); I'd also point out that VOSA did prosecute First Bristol in 2006 (I think) regarding maintenance standards and that did a lot to change the culture of the operation.

I do agree that the cosmetic appearance of vehicle is pretty awful. These have been worked hard and with the removal of the vinyls (and a lack of T-Cut), they look worse. Assume a better job wasn't done as they're in for repaint/refurb which is needed. However, loose trim and accident damage isn't a prohibition notice unless public safety is compromised (e.g. broken seat frames, panels bent out so they exceed width of vehicle, etc)

 

[vicbury]

Be careful; cosmetic appearance and legal compliance are not one and the same. As mentioned earlier, the driver is responsible for taking out any vehicle (he/she is legally liable not just the operator) so won't be taking anything out they shouldn't be. Furthermore, these vehicles are getting serviced every 6 weeks (at least); I'd also point out that VOSA did prosecute First Bristol in 2006 (I think) regarding maintenance standards and that did a lot to change the culture of the operation.

I do agree that the cosmetic appearance of vehicle is pretty awful. These have been worked hard and with the removal of the vinyls (and a lack of T-Cut), they look worse. Assume a better job wasn't done as they're in for repaint/refurb which is needed. However, loose trim and accident damage isn't a prohibition notice unless public safety is compromised (e.g. broken seat frames, panels bent out so they exceed width of vehicle, etc)

Whilst cosmetic issues do not necessarily imply safety issues, I would argue that a bus with knocking from the suspension should not be in service. It seems to be particularly prevalent on the rear of older low floor Darts. Most B7s have very rattly front suspension and how those are passing their MOTs is anyone's guess.

Have VOSA ever had dealings with Bath? As you say, Bristol's vehicles are usually turned out in a far superior condition.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whilst cosmetic issues do not necessarily imply safety issues, I would argue that a bus with knocking from the suspension should not be in service. It seems to be particularly prevalent on the rear of older low floor Darts. Most B7s have very rattly front suspension and how those are passing their MOTs is anyone's guess.

Have VOSA ever had dealings with Bath? As you say, Bristol's vehicles are usually turned out in a far superior condition.

If indeed it is from the suspension itself? If there was anything wrong, the driver would be able to feel that through the steering wheel via excessive vibration, pulling to one side, etc. It's also in the drivers' interest not to drive a defective vehicle as a) he is as responsible in the eyes of the law and b) he can legitimately have an extended break whilst waiting for a replacement

Remember that VOSA will be drawn to any above average MOT failure rates so First won't be allowing vehicles to fail tests. If knocking and rattles were a definitive indication of roadworthiness, there wouldn't be a Plaxton Prestige or President on the road now!

First in Bristol, Weston and Bath had their services monitored to check adherence to timetables and were fined as such about 2.5 years ago so they do check.

 

[swifty]

DML41404, 41420/21/23 have arrived from First London, prior to the transfer of operations, for use in the driver training fleet at Hengrove.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Also one issue with taking vehicles out of service for more cosmetic issues is that you risk delays or cancellations if there are no spares available (or indeed if any potential spare needs to be taken out of service too). So while ideally yes, the state of Firsts buses in the bristol and bath area would be a lot better, sometimes you just have to take what you can get (unless it compromises safety).

 

[richw]

A First driver in Cornwall has made a positive media story in Falmouth for First.

http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/new..._stopped_by_quick_thinking_bus_driver/?ref=ms

A driverless car freewheeling down a Falmouth street was stopped from careering into the town centre yesterday thanks to the quick actions of one bus driver.

Robert Walker, a driver with First Bus, has been praised for his actions by the police after he maneouvred his double decker bus into the middle of Killigrew Street and brought the car to a halt.

The parked car suffered a handbrake failure at around 8.50am just above the junction of Trelawney Road and Killigrew Street and began to roll backwards down the hill towards the town centre.

"Robert was driving his bus towards the junction at the time, saw this happening and not sure whether the vehicle had a driver or not positioned his bus in the middle of the road letting the vehicle collide with his at a slow speed," PC Dave Jephcott said.

If not for Robert's action, "the vehicle would have picked up speed heading towards The Moor, which could have had disastrous consequences," PC Jephcott added.

A spokesperson for First in Devon and Cornwall said the company was "pleased that our driver was able to assist in preventing a more serious collision."

Slight damage was caused to the front of the bus, however, and passengers on board the number 88 had to be transferred to other services while the bus was taken back to the depot for repairs.
"By the end of Monday the bus had been repaired and it has been back on the road as normal since then," the spokesperson added.

No one was seriously injured as a result of the collision.

First seem to be soaking up the publicity in this story in the area. The person who parked the car demonstrated why I always park in gear!

 

[Ivo]

I can give a bit more information on the Somerset changes now. Not a lot, but it's a start:

The 1 in Bridgwater will assume a route which shows elements of all three existing routes. It will have the same route in the south of the town, before heading through the central area to the station and then straight up Parkway, before terminating at Kings Drive. It will run every 30 minutes. Note that the Traveline data contains a rather serious error - it suggests the route terminates at Parkway (even after July 28th)!

Taunton routes 25(A) and 28 show minor timing changes, with the X28 reintroduced for the Holidays.

Nothing else yet.

A First driver in Cornwall has made a positive media story in Falmouth for First.

http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/new..._stopped_by_quick_thinking_bus_driver/?ref=ms

First seem to be soaking up the publicity in this story in the area. The person who parked the car demonstrated why I always park in gear!

This happens everywhere and all the time. I know a driver in Southend who appeared on the front page of the local rag for doing exactly this - although that could have resulted in the car stopping on the c2c line if not for his intervention which would have been far worse!

 

[Colly405]

The problem is I was told what the plan is for the 24/25 back in April - but no-one outside the very top few at Bristol is supposed to know so I have to keep my mouth shut That is of course assuming the plan I was told stays the same...

I agree with the 76/77 idea, but it's harder to market the 76 as such a premium route if it is reduced back to every 20. They just want to profit on the Cribbs alignment - they would probably send the 51 there if it was practical! (And we all know that it is nowhere near "practical" given it doesn't serve the northern half of Bristol at all, and of course is struggling somewhat.)

I went on a 76 to Cribbs yesterday. Very friendly driver - very empty bus...

I know nothing, but it might help patronage around Lockleaze if the 24/25 went direct via Gloucester Rd rather than Eastville and Easton/St Pauls. Or perhaps a circular out via Gloucester Rd, back via Eastville, etc.

And, speaking of circulars, linking the 75 and 76 at Cribbs into a circular could reinstate the direct frequent link between Patchway and Asda. Assuming that the driver bothers going into Asda - some 76s I've been on from the Mall do, and some don't. Of course, that would mean less recovery time at Cribbs...

Finally, and looking to next year, the new stops *in* Southmead Hospital could mean rerouting of the 76? And the access road from Horfield Common (currently closed for the building access) will become ambulance and bus only, leading to other changes?

 

[Hyphen]

First have told me that they are happy for me to have a free return trip to Swansea on the Greyhound in return for the three shifts I've put in for almost no return (a couple of bottles of coca-cola and one very brief stop in Lawrence Hill Depot to unload). Ha anyone ever been on the Greyhound, and if yes what is it like? And ditto the ftr in Swansea?

Can't speak for the Greyhound massively, but a friend tells me the couple of times he's tried to travel on it an unbranded coach has turned up, lacking the Wifi. Don't think this is a regular problem though as I've never knowingly noticed anything other than the proper Greyhound coaches on there.

The ftr - you'll probably enjoy a day out on that. I used to enjoy travelling on it when it was new. However, once I started working at the university and began commuting on it, I quickly changed my mind. These days I time myself round the half-hourly 3A - much less packed, much quicker into the city centre (the choice of route down Oystermouth Road and through the Civic Centre is just daft). If you need to travel from the hospital/uni to the railway station or anything north of the stadium, the amount of layover time they have at the uni and Quadrant, it's quicker to get the ordinary routes.

 

[quarella]

Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
First have told me that they are happy for me to have a free return trip to Swansea on the Greyhound in return for the three shifts I've put in for almost no return (a couple of bottles of coca-cola and one very brief stop in Lawrence Hill Depot to unload). Ha anyone ever been on the Greyhound, and if yes what is it like? And ditto the ftr in Swansea?

Greyhound=When I used it last year a coach with leather seats but due to reducing the capacity to increase legroom airvents/lights did not line up with seats. Wi-fi dropped a few times but nothing major. FTR I'm sure you'll enjoy but I wouldn't want to travel on it every day and I still disagree with how it was allowed to carve up Swansea city centre.

Interesting to see De Cymru on the offside of the 13 plate Optares around Bridgend as per NBC South Wales. I have yet to see a near side to discover what is there. Some also branded for X2 Porthcawl - Cardiff in a very deep purple/blue.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Should be very little Greyhound vehicles that are unbranded now, since the couple of Greyhound Vehicles that were in Devon and Cornwall for Rail Replacements at the end of the South Cost service are now in Wales with some of the unbranded vehicles going in exchange.

 

[ryson357]

Searching around and the 264/265 timetables are up. Journey from Bath - Salisbury 2 1/2 hours journey time. Improvements to Sunday and public holidays with hourly service to Trowbridge. still 4 journeys to Warminster still as service 264. M-S evening and Sundays and Public Holidays service will be 264's (Not 265).

 

[Ivo]

Improvements to Sunday and public holidays with hourly service to Trowbridge

About time too - that was always the most ill-advised of the two-hourly Sunday routes.

 

[DaveHarries]

Just been thinking about the nightbuses, perhaps one idea would be to introduce them on the 1? Probably wouldn't need anything larger than a B10BLE / Wright to work the trips but such trips would certainly fill a gap as well as providing faster journeys for Henbury: I wonder how many people get off the 54 at Brentry who would otherwise use the 1 if it ran?

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

About time too - that was always the most ill-advised of the two-hourly Sunday routes.

It's been two hourly for donkey's years, even when there was 3 bph during Mon to Sat, and even that was only Bath to Trowbridge. It does make a lot of sense though, given how Sunday is now the second biggest shopping day.

Just wish they'd do something about the 231 but I think they've almost lost heart. 67338 was on it on Monday morning....19 years young! The comparison with Faresaver is embarrassing! Even whilst those Lances are on death row, you do think that when they go, it'll be some knackered SPD or MPD that will appear in its place

 

[ValleyLines142]

Caught the 1 yesterday from Cribbs to Temple Meads, waited over half an hour for one to turn up!! Eventually, 37333 (WX57HKO) turned into one.

I have to say, the 75 and the 76 really are incredibly frequent!!

Also grabbed a ride on Volvo B7/ALX400 32280 (WR 03 YZM) on the 54 yesterday, have to say it does have a nice feel to it!! Also had a ride on the diversion around the city due to the closure of Union Street. It more or less seems to follow Wessex's 14 service.

Planning on going on the X14 next week, from Newport to Bristol, will see how it goes!! Think I might return on the 2015 Bristol to Cardiff XC train though, at £1.50 for a single it's well worth it!!

 

[Ivo]

The 1 is becoming increasingly unreliable so I'm not surprised by that at all Dan.

As for the night service, the problem it has is that it is shadowed at relatively close proximity for almost all of its route by at least one other service, most obviously the 54. The only areas that really lose aout are Westbury to the north and Arnos Vale onwards to the south; Westbury alone isn't enough to justify a service which would result in much of the A4018 having a better night service than even Gloucester Road (north of Montpelier), and the route to the south is just too short - especially if the idea of a 339 night service does materialise. And I think that is probably half the reason no such service exist - First trying to hold on to see what Bristol/BANES are willing to do for the 339.

Just speculation of course, but the 339 is a very real pssibility in the near future -First themselves have said this - which would surely kill off any 1 idea.

 

[vicbury]

I travelled several times on the 14 in Bath today and the increased frequency certainly seems to be doing well on it. I wonder if it will be boosted further to match the weekday frequency as was the case a few years ago?

I've also wondered why the 13 in Bath always receives all the investment, and traditionally always has? According to someone high up in First, the 13 is a "key cross-city route" yet surely the 14 is more important? The 14 runs at higher frequencies, connects all the major trip generators in Bath (two hospitals, city centre, major residential areas such as Odd Down, Weston, Bear Flat and Newbridge) yet always seems to end up with the cast-offs.

At least one of the B7s in Bath has been painted into the new livery along with West of England stickers. It also features an "I'm cared for by Bath depot" sticker so maybe it won't be heading to Bristol?

I've still yet to travel on the Streetlite, maybe someone can convince them to run it on the 14 a bit so I can try it out?
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The 1 is becoming increasingly unreliable so I'm not surprised by that at all Dan.

As for the night service, the problem it has is that it is shadowed at relatively close proximity for almost all of its route by at least one other service, most obviously the 54. The only areas that really lose aout are Westbury to the north and Arnos Vale onwards to the south; Westbury alone isn't enough to justify a service which would result in much of the A4018 having a better night service than even Gloucester Road (north of Montpelier), and the route to the south is just too short - especially if the idea of a 339 night service does materialise. And I think that is probably half the reason no such service exist - First trying to hold on to see what Bristol/BANES are willing to do for the 339.

Just speculation of course, but the 339 is a very real pssibility in the near future -First themselves have said this - which would surely kill off any 1 idea.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the 339 has night journeys added to it why not just go the whole way and make it 24/7? Looking forward to seeing what happens!

 

[Class 33]

The problem is I was told what the plan is for the 24/25 back in April - but no-one outside the very top few at Bristol is supposed to know so I have to keep my mouth shut That is of course assuming the plan I was told stays the same...

I agree with the 76/77 idea, but it's harder to market the 76 as such a premium route if it is reduced back to every 20. They just want to profit on the Cribbs alignment - they would probably send the 51 there if it was practical! (And we all know that it is nowhere near "practical" given it doesn't serve the northern half of Bristol at all, and of course is struggling somewhat.)

I went on a 76 to Cribbs yesterday. Very friendly driver - very empty bus...

Hmmm.... sounds like the revised plans for the 24/25 could be major changes then. Though I've looked at the times and the routes for the 24/25 in September on the TravelBristol website and there appears to be no notable changes atall. I guess though they haven't programmed in the upcoming changes yet. Not too long to wait now till we found out what's happening.

Glad you agree with my idea regarding the 76 and re-introducing the 77 to Henbury via the old more direct route via straight up Pen Park Road. Unfortunately though as you say, it would probably never happen now as First would see it as a backward move going from 10 minutes to every 20 minutes. Saying that though, pre October 1986 the 77 was every 30 minutes and it then went to every 10 minutes to it's revised southern terminus of Knowle West. About four or five years later, it then went back to every 20 minutes(and back to Hartcliffe again). So a cut in frequency did happen before.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 1 is becoming increasingly unreliable so I'm not surprised by that at all Dan.

It was unusual because I'd been in the centre in the day and there had been loads of 1s, really not sure what happened! In that time I was waiting at Cribbs, there was three 54s, but I couldn't catch it because my friend was meeting me on the bus in Westbury.

On the subject of night buses, I really believe UWE should have a 24-hour bus service. I think the 70 should become 24 hours at least. The 73 and 74 run until about 2am, as far as Parkway station, but it's inconvenient for UWE students as they have to walk up to campus from Sainsbury's.

 

[Ivo]

Thank you for the heads-up regarding the B7. Having no weekend service and being limited pretty much to the 15 exclusively last week has left me out of the game a bit...

...but to hear that it's 66943? NO MORE FORD ADVERTS!!!!!

Also, I've noticed that the assumed fleet numbering for the Streetlites has changed completely. They now have the provisional numbering of 63068-78, which is more accureate the the 4-series previously assumed. (This comes from Steve White's website.)

It also features an "I'm cared for by Bath depot" sticker so maybe it won't be heading to Bristol?

This is a way of warning the public that it will break down regularly jk



I finally have full details of Taunton's changes for anyone interested. Note that I cannot give an absolute guarantee that this is correct, but it certainly should be, and that this list does not include Services 25/25A or 28/X28 as these were covered previously.

The 21 loses its evening service.

The 22 runs every 15 minutes as expected, with a *very* limited through service to and from Tiverton for College students, and also loses its evening service.

The town network is formed of seven routes numbered 1 to 7 (!), all of which terminate at the Parade. Services 1 and 4 run at 10 and 20 -minute intervals respectively with all others running every 30 minutes; only the 1 runs on Sundays.

• 1 to Ladymead Road via Station
• 2 to Priorswood via Station
• 3 to Bishop's Hull vi Hospital
• 4 to Lane Estate
• 5 to Calder Crescent
• 6 to Juniper Road
• 7 to Galmington via Hospital

 

[DaveHarries]

Just been looking at the new timetable for the 265 and I notice that certain journeys start from / terminate at Yarnbrook Crossroads. Is this related to the transfer of work to Westbury?

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just been looking at the new timetable for the 265 and I notice that certain journeys start from / terminate at Yarnbrook Crossroads. Is this related to the transfer of work to Westbury?

Dave

Thought the transfer of work was the Melksham work and a 234 board from Frome? Not certain if the 264 stuff are just running existing runs nearer the depot rather than terminating in Trowbridge?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Where is this new timetable to please? The First S&A website has the current TT (Warminster - Bath) and there is nothing in 'forthcoming timetables' tab...?