First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Where is this new timetable to please? The First S&A website has the current TT (Warminster - Bath) and there is nothing in 'forthcoming timetables' tab...?

On Traveline SW!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I finally have full details of Taunton's changes for anyone interested. Note that I cannot give an absolute guarantee that this is correct, but it certainly should be, and that this list does not include Services 25/25A or 28/X28 as these were covered previously.

The 21 loses its evening service.

The 22 runs every 15 minutes as expected, with a *very* limited through service to and from Tiverton for College students, and also loses its evening service.

The town network is formed of seven routes numbered 1 to 7 (!), all of which terminate at the Parade. Services 1 and 4 run at 10 and 20 -minute intervals respectively with all others running every 30 minutes; only the 1 runs on Sundays.

• 1 to Ladymead Road via Station
• 2 to Priorswood via Station
• 3 to Bishop's Hull vi Hospital
• 4 to Lane Estate
• 5 to Calder Crescent
• 6 to Juniper Road
• 7 to Galmington via Hospital

So the changes seem to affect the Priorswood and Galmington levels of service most?

Also, and I don't know if you know, but were the evening services on the 21 and 22 tendered or did FSA take them on as a "use it or lose it" thing when SCC cut support for many services a few years back?

Have to say that the changes to the Wellington service do make a lot of sense. Wonder if they'll put on it? Certainly the First fleet is "mature" - out of 71 vehicles in Somerset, only 8 are less than 7.5 years old (e.g. mid life).

 

[Ivo]

From what I can tell, there is a problem with the 264/265 registration. One journey that should continue to Warminster is shown as terminating at Westbury, which would mean that First run an illegal service between the two. If this theory proves correct, they may well have to re-reigster the routes, so don't be too surprised if another 264/265 registraiton appears on VOSA next week.

- apparently I have an old copy and it's already been dealt with.

Speaking of which, apart from a couple of routes in Portsmouth I haven't found anything of interest recently. How many more times are they going to tinker with Hampshire before finally letting things run properly? They were like this before the revamp last year...

I don't know if you know, but were the evening services on the 21 and 22 tendered or did FSA take them on as a "use it or lose it" thing when SCC cut support for many services a few years back?

I've wondered that myself. I've found evidence suggesting this applied to the Sunday service, but noithing for the evenings. I would have to assume it is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Where is this new timetable to please? The First S&A website has the current TT (Warminster - Bath) and there is nothing in 'forthcoming timetables' tab...?

This is First remember It probably won't appear until literally the Friday before...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
An extra tidbit I forgot to mention: After a two-month delay, the 2013 Greater Bristol Bus Map has finally been released, and just in time for Gromit Unleashed. I haven't had a serious prune for errors, yet, although the beta copy had loads of them - especially around Cribbs Causeway and Bradley Stoke...

 

[ValleyLines142]

Caught the X14 yesterday to Bristol. First Bristol's 32011 was working the route, but I had a Stagecoach Express coach. God that journey doesn't half drag! Takes forever too!!

 

[Colly405]

An extra tidbit I forgot to mention: After a two-month delay, the 2013 Greater Bristol Bus Map has finally been released, and just in time for Gromit Unleashed. I haven't had a serious prune for errors, yet, although the beta copy had loads of them - especially around Cribbs Causeway and Bradley Stoke...

Haven't seen it yet, but I gave them loads of feedback on the first draft (which at the point I gave feedback, didn't say "drtaft" anywhere) which resulted in me being asked to give feedback on the second draft. Didn't have long mind, so it might not be totally OK.

one funny from the first version - as you say, Bradley Stoke area was horrendous, including the X18 gouing up past Patchway Station, and continuing up Station Road to the A38. This hasn't been possible for ~40 years...

 

[DaveHarries]

At last! I gather that the following StreetLites were at Heysham Docks today:

63070, SM13 NBA
63071, SM13 NBB
63072, SM13 NBD
63073, SM13 NBE
63075, SM13 NBG

Was linked into the photos from an email so they are coming at last!

HTIOI,
Dave

 

[Ivo]

At last! I gather that the following StreetLites were at Heysham Docks today:

63070, SM13 NBA
63071, SM13 NBB
63072, SM13 NBD
63073, SM13 NBE
63075, SM13 NBG

Was linked into the photos from an email so they are coming at last!

I almost want to ask if you're winding us up

Are these definitely bound for the South-West and not somewhere else? These fleet numbers don't match any of those suggested previously...

 

[DaveHarries]

I almost want to ask if you're winding us up

Are these definitely bound for the South-West and not somewhere else? These fleet numbers don't match any of those suggested previously...

Interesting point, and I can understand why you might ask that! The message came from a sender who noted it himself and provided links to photos as well. Problem is that if you zoom in the legals on the site can't be read. However one of them (63073) looks to say "Bristol" on the side of it if viewed at full size and with zoom.

The full list - which came from one Malcom Jones - of vehicles at Heysham was given as:

Arriva London HV121 [still there from last week] - http://smu.gs/18FPxQC
Arriva North East NK61CZN - http://smu.gs/10H8CwM
First London 47400 - http://smu.gs/12OItZd
First Somerset & Avon 63070 – http://smu.gs/10H912f
First Somerset & Avon 63071 – http://smu.gs/12OIvAt
First Somerset & Avon 63072 – http://smu.gs/10H95z7
First Somerset & Avon 63073 – http://smu.gs/12OICvT
First Somerset & Avon 63075 – http://smu.gs/12OIBIc
First West Yorkshire 69570 – http://smu.gs/12OIDzT
First West Yorkshire 69571 – http://smu.gs/18FQAQz
London Sovereign VH5 – http://smu.gs/18FRnB1
London Sovereign VH6 – http://smu.gs/18FRoVv
London Sovereign VH7 – http://smu.gs/12OJe4t

So who knows.

Dave

 

[swifty]

They're branded as FirstWestofEngland above drivers window and passenger doors. Incidentally two have already arrived at Weston Island, currently in plain first livery with no route branding.

 

[Ivo]

Plenty of material has surfaced on VOSA today, as expected. Before I get to Bristol (etc) though, take a look at this one:

Operating between FALMOUTH Moor and TRURO Treliske Hospital/NEWQUAY Bus Station given service number 68/231/233/67/68A/88/88B/89/90 effective from 02-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.

How can they get away with so many different routes on one registration...?

Anyhow, Bristol (etc). Some rather surprising stuff in here - especially for Bristol itself...

PH0000132/7 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bristol Bus Station and Weston-super- Mare, Marine Parade given service number X1/1 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0000132/8 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between BATH Bus Station and BRISTOL Bus Station given service number 339/338/X39 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0000132/30 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between WORLE and UPHILL given service number 5 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0000132/31 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Weston-super-Mare, Searle Crescent and Worle Sainsburys given service number 3 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0000132/51 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between OLDMIXON and WORLE Sainsburys given service number 7 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0000132/58 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bristol Bus Station and Portishead, Weatherley Drive given service number 23/X2/X3 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0000132/60 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between WESTON-SUPER-MARE, Regent Street and BRIDGWATER College given service number X21/X22 effective from 01-Sep-2013.
PH0000132/69 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between BATH SPA University and UNIVERSITY OF BATH Bus Stand given service number 18 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0000132/281 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bath Spa University and Bath Spa University given service number 15 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.

The X1 entry is interesting. It would appear that - rather sensibly, I must state - the (soon-to-be) formerly used number 1 will be recycled in place of either the 352 or 353. I personally expect to see the 352 done away with, but we shall see.

Other stuff here seems somewhat rudimentary, although I find it hard to believe that they are changing the route of the X2 etc especially when the routes are so young. I also wonder if the X39 etc might finally see the change we have all waited for - but I won't hold my breath on that. I am 99% certain I know the (hare-brained) route change on the 15; that will become 100% in 30 minutes' time. Convenient how my last ever bus meeting with the University should be today!

PH0007208/8 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between STOCKWOOD The Coots and CRIBBS CAUSEWAY Bus Station given service number 54 effective from 01-Sep-2013.
PH0007208/9 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bristol , Colston Avenue and Hengrove Depot given service number 50/51 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0007208/10 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between BRISTOL, RUPERT STREET and EMERSONS GREEN given service number 48/49 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0007208/11 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Bristol, Broad Quay and Cadbury Heath, Newton Road Shops given service number 44/44A/45 effective from 01-Sep-2013.
PH0007208/12 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bristol, Broad Quay and Bitton, Cherry Garden Road given service number 42/43/44/45 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0007208/16 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between BRISTOL Temple Meads Station and Bristol, Temple Meads Station given service number 8/9 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0007208/21 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between CRIBBS CAUSEWAY Bus Station and BROOMHILL Whitmore Ave given service number 1/2 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0007208/42 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Southmead, Charlton Road and Bristol, Colston Avenue given service number 20 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0007208/49 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Broadmead, Horsefair and Hengrove Depot given service number 90 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0007208/87 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Broadmead, Union Street and Cribbs Causeway Bus Station given service number 40/40A/41 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0007208/88 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bristol Bus Station and Bristol Airport given service number A1 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route, Stopping Places and Timetable.

The 44/45 can be identified in the 42/43 timetable, which seems fair enough, but as I understand it multiple routes are only permitted where at least 50% of the route is used by all services - which is not the case here, especially on the 42.

As for the 54, it seems they've done something I've long thought sensible (and suggested before now) - renumbering it 2. Its route is sufficiently similar to the 1 to justify it, especially if the 75/76 are adequate, and they could combine the times more effectively to provide a consistent 6-minute frequency on Whiteladies Road. By extension, I note a 50 in the 51 registration. Perhaps this wil assume the Stockwood leg of the 54 and result in a change to the Broomhill service?

Lastly, nothing on the 24/25. Why am I not surprised? :roll:

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I finally have full details of Taunton's changes for anyone interested. Note that I cannot give an absolute guarantee that this is correct, but it certainly should be, and that this list does not include Services 25/25A or 28/X28 as these were covered previously.

The 21 loses its evening service.

The 22 runs every 15 minutes as expected, with a *very* limited through service to and from Tiverton for College students, and also loses its evening service.

The town network is formed of seven routes numbered 1 to 7 (!), all of which terminate at the Parade. Services 1 and 4 run at 10 and 20 -minute intervals respectively with all others running every 30 minutes; only the 1 runs on Sundays.

• 1 to Ladymead Road via Station
• 2 to Priorswood via Station
• 3 to Bishop's Hull vi Hospital
• 4 to Lane Estate
• 5 to Calder Crescent
• 6 to Juniper Road
• 7 to Galmington via Hospital

As a former resident of Taunton, It's interesting to see my former local route the 6 has reverted to its original number at some point: It was the 6 when I first moved there before becoming the 1A (a change which also saw the Merc bread vans in Southern National green replaced with ex-London low-floor darts). Also pleasantly surprised that it still has the half-hourly service at least during the day! As for the Wellington services, I fear for the gene pool of the place even more now- It really ought to rename itself Harrenhal and be done with it!

 

[Class 33]

No changes mentioned for the 24/25 then Ivo. I thought going by one of your previous postings, was that some major changes were to be introduced from September. Oh well for the time being, services remain as they are! Still, let's hope at least it's true and Streetlite's will be replacing those horrid Enviro 200's on these services soon. Probably not all that much more seating capacity really, but at least they're nicer more comfortable buses!

Not sure what they're doing with the 42,43,44, and 45. As the above seems to indicate that the 44 and 45 are both being scrapped. I guess this must mean that the 42 becomes a combination of both the current services 42 and 43 , and the 43 becomes a combination of the current 44 and 45 route. With service frequency increased. Similar to the 76 and 77 merged to a 76 service only about four years ago.

Yes, sounds like the 54 renumbered service 2 will serve Broomhill. And I guess the Centre-Stockwood part of the 54 route will now be renumbered service 50.

A shame it's not possible to view more details about these changes yet. Won't be on First's website untill about a week or so before. On the TravelineSW website, these changes haven't been programmed in yet.

 

[ryson357]

Its going to be very interesting to see what happens so this is going to be a good research. (Bristol)

Service 1: assume to be sort of the same TT and slight route change.
New service 2: Combining with service 1 like the olden days. Combining frequency of every 6 minutes m-f, every 7 1/2 minutes S and every 15 minutes Sundays and public holidays. Just guessing what the frequency might be like if service 2 runs. This explains why First need 6 extra double deckers for Bristol.
New service 50: operating between centre and stockwood. Don't know what I'd estimate for frequency. Maybe 15 minutes m-f? Every 20 minutes Saturdays and 30 Sundays?
Service 51: combining with service 50 every 7 1/2
Minutes m-f, 10 minutes s and 15 minutes Sundays and ph.
Between centre and broadwalk.
Service 54: withdrawn proberly. Centre - henleaze - southmead - Cribbs Service 2 will cover. Centre - Broadwalk - stockwood service 50

Lets wait and see when the 28th July changes clear and then search

 

[Ivo]

Apparently Bath's Streetlites really are starting to arrive (sorry for doubting you Dave - not you I didn't believe; it just seemed too good to be true). However, I am told that one of them won't start very easily!

Anyway, a few more:

PH0000132/25 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Regent Street Western Super Mare and High Bridge Railway Station given service number 112 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.
PH0000132/199 - FIRST SOMERSET & AVON LTD T/A FIRST, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Taunton Bus Station and Dulverton Barns Close given service number 25/25A effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.
PH0007208/89 - FIRST BRISTOL LIMITED, LAWRENCE HILL DEPOT, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between EMERSONS GREEN and SOUTHMEAD HOSPITAL given service number 18/X18 effective from 01-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.

Also, interesting to note the following (complete with consistently poor spellings ):

PH1035360/45 - WEBBERBUS LTD, Unit 8c, Beech Business Park, Bristol Road, BRIDGWATER, TA6 4FF
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Bridgewater Bus Statin
Finish Point: Bridgewater Hospital
Via: Polden Meadows
Service Number: D
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 01-SEP-2013
Other Details: Monday to Saturday hourly.

PH1035360/46 - WEBBERBUS LTD, Unit 8c, Beech Business Park, Bristol Road, BRIDGWATER, TA6 4FF
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Bridgewater Bus Station
Finish Point: South Sydenham
Via:
Service Number: C
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 01-SEP-2013
Other Details: Monday to Saturday hourly.

PH1035360/47 - WEBBERBUS LTD, Unit 8c, Beech Business Park, Bristol Road, BRIDGWATER, TA6 4FF
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Bridgewater Bus Station
Finish Point: Rhode Lane Estate
Via: Taunton Road
Service Number: B
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 01-SEP-2013
Other Details: Monday to Saturday every 20 minutes.

PH1035360/48 - WEBBERBUS LTD, Unit 8c, Beech Business Park, Bristol Road, BRIDGWATER, TA6 4FF
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Bridgewater Bus Station
Finish Point: North Sydenham
Via: Bath Road
Service Number: A
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 01-SEP-2013
Other Details: Monday to Saturday every 20 minutes.

Sounds like Bridgwater is under heavy fire. I really do believe it's just a matter of time now.

No changes mentioned for the 24/25 then Ivo. I thought going by one of your previous postings, was that some major changes were to be introduced from September.

Apparently not. I love how they are so indecisive :roll:

Not sure what they're doing with the 42,43,44, and 45.

Sounds to me like simply they're fiddling with the registrations (erging them all into one) to save a bit of money. Which shouldn't be possible because the routes don't match the 50% consistency rule that VOSA recommend.

 

[DaveHarries]

Right. Some thoughts to the changes posted by Ivo.

Firstly, as for Bristol:

- Service 1 / 2: Surprised by this. However, IIRC there used to be a Service 2 which ran from Broomhill (Whitmore Avenue) to Southmead (Charlton Road) several years ago. The service 2 in question later became Service 1A but was withdrawn not too long afterwards. It could be that this is going to be reconstituted. If that is the case then I would link the changes for Services 1 & 2 with the Route & TT revision to Service 20 (currently Southmead to Hengrove) and I would reckon that the 20 may be withdrawn between Westbury and Southmead with Service 2 replacing it. The 20 may well then revert to its previous terminus down at Westbury (Canford Cemetery) which would account for the route revision. However if that dowes prove to be a goer then they won't keep everything in sync with the frequency if they have to serve Henleaze Road: pehaps this will be left to Service 15 (Wessex Connect)?

- Services 40 / 41: interesting that the start point / terminus is given in the registration as Broadmead (Union Street) instead of Old Market. May be that someone thinks too many buses are using that Old Market stops (also used by routes 6, 7, 8, 9, 42, 43, 44 & 45 as well as the 376) and the change is to ease congestion there. Hopefully nothing too substantial though as the 40 & 41 are my local routes.

- Service 50: presumably late journeys will be added as well to keep the night services to Stockwood.

And as for the S&A changes:

- Service 5 (Worle - Uphill): a recent VOSA registration came from Bakers Dolphin ending their evening & Sunday journeys on this route. The TT change could be additional journeys to replace those lost.

- Service 3 (Worle - Searle Crescent): wonder if the loop in Worle will reappear? Can't think what else this might be.

- Services X39 / 338 / 339: Interesting this one. Timetable changes only though: later journeys?

- Services 15 & 18 (Bath): used to operate as one route so perhaps to be merged once again?

- Services X2 / X3 / 23: Wonder what this is to entail? Could be interesting...

And as for Webberbus, TBH I am not wholly surprised but I reckon that more vehicles will have to come in for the new routes: now that you can get them, perhaps some Solo SRs are en-route of the M780 variety? Either way this leaves Kings Down and Stockmoor without a link: it crosses my mind that Stockmoor could be served by a rerouting of Service 15 and I suggested that to WB. Interesting to see if they go ahead with such an idea. Strange to see that the new D & C routes are only hourly, unless this is an error and it should be half hourly.

Dave

 

[Colly405]

Right. Some thoughts to the changes posted by Ivo.

Firstly, as for Bristol:

- Service 1 / 2: Surprised by this. However, IIRC there used to be a Service 2 which ran from Broomhill (Whitmore Avenue) to Southmead (Charlton Road) several years ago. The service 2 in question later became Service 1A but was withdrawn not too long afterwards. It could be that this is going to be reconstituted. If that is the case then I would link the changes for Services 1 & 2 with the Route & TT revision to Service 20 (currently Southmead to Hengrove) and I would reckon that the 20 may be withdrawn between Westbury and Southmead with Service 2 replacing it. The 20 may well then revert to its previous terminus down at Westbury (Canford Cemetery) which would account for the route revision. However if that dowes prove to be a goer then they won't keep everything in sync with the frequency if they have to serve Henleaze Road: pehaps this will be left to Service 15 (Wessex Connect)?

But note that the 20 is now shown as Charlton Rd to Centre, I.e. including Southmead, and NOT between Centre and Hengrove. And, your thoughts re the 1/2/20 would leave much of Southmead Rd with no bus to the Centre, just when Southmead Hosp is getting bigger!

 

[DaveHarries]

But note that the 20 is now shown as Charlton Rd to Centre, I.e. including Southmead, and NOT between Centre and Hengrove. And, your thoughts re the 1/2/20 would leave much of Southmead Rd with no bus to the Centre, just when Southmead Hosp is getting bigger!

Colly,

Quite! Interesting to note also that there are changes registered by Wessex Connect today for the timetable of Service 15 (UWE Frenchay - City Centre) which includes Henleaze Road on its route.

Dave

 

[swifty]

Wessex have also registered changes to the rest of the UWE routes, timetable amendments for the start of the new year. I doubt First would leave them to it along Southmead/Henleaze Road.

Also, what are Webberbus playing at? They seem to be registering anything to try and make money! The latest is the 78 from Portishead to Bridgwater.

 

[DaveHarries]

Wessex have also registered changes to the rest of the UWE routes, timetable amendments for the start of the new year. I doubt First would leave them to it along Southmead/Henleaze Road.

Also, what are Webberbus playing at? They seem to be registering anything to try and make money! The latest is the 78 from Portishead to Bridgwater.

Yes I saw that about the 78. Bit of an odd one. Think it is good they are trying to provide a simpler network in Bridgwater though.

Dave

 

[Class 33]

Right. Some thoughts to the changes posted by Ivo.

Firstly, as for Bristol:

- Service 1 / 2: Surprised by this. However, IIRC there used to be a Service 2 which ran from Broomhill (Whitmore Avenue) to Southmead (Charlton Road) several years ago. The service 2 in question later became Service 1A but was withdrawn not too long afterwards. It could be that this is going to be reconstituted.....

It was a little more than several years ago that the 2 Broomhill-Southmead was axed. My memory of the service is a little sketchy. The service 2 was introduced in October 1986. Think it ran till about 1995-ish, when it was then renumbered service 55 and operated from Southmead-Broadmead only. Then the service 55 was axed around about 1999. I do vaguely remember there being a 1A which ran to Southmead and think this only ran at certain peak times only, this would I think have been just after the 55 was axed and ran for only a couple of years?

There was also a service 3 Broomhill-Filton Church(running via Westbury and Southmead) introduced in October 1986. But this service was axed after only a few years.

Will be interesting to see if the NEW service 2 runs via Westbury and Southmead to Cribbs Causeway(or terminating in Southmead Charlton Road like the old service 2 years ago). OR will replace the current service 54 route running via Henleaze and Southmead to Cribbs Causeway. My first thought was actually the latter, but it could well be the former! If the former then it sounds like there will now be no First bus serving the length of Henleaze Road, and a section of Southmead Road anymore!

Will be interesting to see what happens when the new timetables are published in late August.

 

[Ivo]

Lance fans, get yourselves to Bath NOW (well, not literally - tomorrow maybe). I am told that they will be gone for good at the end of this week, with the Streetlites starting service next week.

Also leaving Bath are the recently-debranded B7s 667XX, as long theorised. If the theory holds true, they will be seen on the Nailsea and Clevedon corridors.

- Services 15 & 18 (Bath): used to operate as one route so perhaps to be merged once again?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The advice my Unviersity gave me repeatedly - that the 15 would use deckers, skip Lower Oldfield Park and terminate at the Bus Station turned out to be correct. However, en masse criticism from students has led to the *short-term* (Autumn 2013 and early 2014 only) introduction of a 15A, which will loop round LOP once an hour and run out to the University from there (not serving the City Centre). As for the 18, this is likely to be for the same reason that the 15 is being diverted and that the 15A is a short-term solution - because Brougham Hayes bridge is being closed to all traffic, ready for it to be raised to provide the room required for OHLE underneath.

Apparently however they won't be 32281-5, which are currently the only non-P&R deckers in Bath - so what will they be? Cast-offs from Bristol?

 

[Class 33]

It was a little more than several years ago that the 2 Broomhill-Southmead was axed. My memory of the service is a little sketchy. The service 2 was introduced in October 1986. Think it ran till about 1995-ish, when it was then renumbered service 55 and operated from Southmead-Broadmead only. Then the service 55 was axed around about 1999. I do vaguely remember there being a 1A which ran to Southmead and think this only ran at certain peak times only, this would I think have been just after the 55 was axed and ran for only a couple of years?

Correction to that. Service 2 was shorted to serve just Southmead-Broadmead around about 1992/3. Then after service 2 was axed, service 55 from Stockwood-Centre was extended beyond the Centre to Southmead via the old service 2 route. Service 55 from Stockwood-Southmead lasted till at least about 2003/4, when it was then shortened to serve just Centre-Southmead. The 55 survived till either 2007 or 2008 when it was then finally axed completely.

 

[Colly405]

There was also a service 3 Broomhill-Filton Church(running via Westbury and Southmead) introduced in October 1986. But this service was axed after only a few years.

Will be interesting to see if the NEW service 2 runs via Westbury and Southmead to Cribbs Causeway(or terminating in Southmead Charlton Road like the old service 2 years ago). OR will replace the current service 54 route running via Henleaze and Southmead to Cribbs Causeway. My first thought was actually the latter, but it could well be the former! If the former then it sounds like there will now be no First bus serving the length of Henleaze Road, and a section of Southmead Road anymore!

Will be interesting to see what happens when the new timetables are published in late August.

Don't forget that (when the subsidised 54 went into Charlton and was a 54B) there was also a solitary journey in the morning peak on the 54A from Filton Church, down Southmead Rd, up Pen Park and then as the 54 to Stockwood. This finished in April 2006, I think.

Re your 'former' scenario above, as mentioned earlier, not only would there be no First bus serving the length of Henleaze Rd and a section of Southmead Rd, that section of Southmead Rd would have no buses to town/Cribbs/etc, with just the 501/502/505 running.

Re Henleaze Rd and the 15, the changes to the 15 from September are just minor timing adjustments, as can be found on the UWE website here, which...

GOING OFF TOPIC ALERT

... also gives the changes to all the other Wessex Red services; full list as follows:
Service 11 - Services increased to run every 20 minutes during the day. A new Saturday service will also run from UWE to Temple Meads.
Service 11a - Late evening service available to Bower Ashton until 21:30.
Service 12 - Services increased to run every 20 minutes during the day. Combined with the number 11 service, this offers a service every 10 minutes from UWE to Broadmead via Gloucester Road. The Saturday service has been withdrawn (replaced by the number 11 Saturday service).
Service 13 - Services increased to run every 12 minutes between UWE and Broadmead and every 24 minutes (my italics) between UWE and Willow Brook.
Service 13a - Service to be withdrawn due to low passenger numbers.
Service 14 - Services increased to run every 20 minutes during the day.
Service 15 - Minor timing adjustments.
Service 19 - Services increased to run every 12 minutes, with additional late evening journeys until 23:20 (22:34 Saturdays).

 

[ValleyLines142]

Service 12 - Services increased to run every 20 minutes during the day. Combined with the number 11 service, this offers a service every 10 minutes from UWE to Broadmead via Gloucester Road.

The 19 also serves Gloucester Road as well doesn't it?

Service 14 - Services increased to run every 20 minutes during the day.

This is very good indeed; the 14 should be EXTREMELY frequent. It is a very popular bus. I'm surprised Wessex haven't considered increasing the frequency ages back.

 

[DaveHarries]

First have put the changes for Somerset wef 21st July onto their website. Two words spring to mind:

"Oh dear!"

Wonder how long it will be before the only First route remaining through Bridgwater is the 21 / 21A. Also, after reading the changes for Taunton, I say that is a poor show. If I had been given the chance the current routes would have remained cross-town services with a good service and some changes to the route but a better service than what seems to be in the pipeline. My sympathies to people on the receiving end of the changes in Taunton and Bridgwater.

Wonder how long before the criticism starts in the press. I reckon it won't have to wait too long. Would I escape posting here what I would have done with the 1 / 1A in Taunton?

Dave

 

[Ivo]

By my reckoning the 1 in Taunton will run a circuit with the 5, 6 and 7, with the 2, 3 and 4 running independently. The 2 and 3 should really interwork though to relieve pressure on the 3 (it gets two minutes' layover at the Parade every 30 minutes), which would require very little work to implement*. The 4 is definitely a single entity though and cannot be easily modified to accommodate interworking.

Overall, I calculate the PVR for the entire network to be 11. This compares to a current PVR of 14 and reduces reduces needless slack on certain routes, most obviously the current 4 which with a bit of a push could probably get away with a PVR of 4 instead of 5 at present. It may also allow the withdrawal (or cascade) of the Marshall Darts.

* The 2 loop runs 05 > 30; the 3 loop runs 01 > 29. Move the 3 back two or three minutes and have the services terminate where the opposite service starts at the Parade instead of doing running right round the Parade roundabout and pulling up at the same stop they left from.

Finally, to minimise the impact of changes affecting Service 92, a number of journeys on Service 22 are being extended to start or finish at Tiverton. Specifically there will be journeys on Service 22 from Tiverton at 0715, 1015, 1245 and 1515 hours, while there will be journeys from Taunton to Tiverton at 0900, 1130 and 1400 hours and one from Richard Huish College to Tiverton/Cullompton at 1640 hours.

Oh really? Then why does the data I've seen - VOSA, Traveline, leaflets, the lot - suggest the only journeys to Tiverton are the college ones? (That said, Traveline doesn't even think the College ones exist.)

I am told that this is the result of a last minute change and that it will be a few days before this information becomes available, even for the purposes of proof-reading. This does however preserve the Tiverton service as suggested on the website.

Wonder how long it will be before the only First route remaining through Bridgwater is the 21

I would have thought they would keep the 375, but it aside I thik you are right to believe this - and the same could be said for BR depot.

 

[Colly405]

The 19 also serves Gloucester Road as well doesn't it

Yes. I think they mean Cheltenham Rd!

 

[Ivo]

Changes also confirmed for the 73 group.

 

[vicbury]

Not sure if you can influence this, Ivo, but the new timetable for the 265 has an incorrect description at the top (doesn't mention Salisbury). Link to timetable here (PDF).

I'm doing lots of bus service analysis at work at the moment so I'll let you know if I spot anything else.

One other possible issue, the forthcoming timetable on First's website for the 178 suggests that the last bus from Bath is now as early as 2130, is that correct? Edit: It's not correct, Wessex buses will be running until 2350 but for clarity the timetable on First's website really should display that.

 

[Ivo]

Advice for you all: See this timetable (the new 231)? If you have printed this timetable, burn it, shred it, or use it as a litter tray covering. It is an embarrassment to First, to Traveline and to the entire industry - it really is that bad. To quote myself on the Coffeeshop:

In short, the weekday and Saturday services into Bath are the wrong way round, roughly 100 individual timings are incorrect, and the Sunday and Public Holiday service is missing completely.

Amongst other things.

Not sure if you can influence this, Ivo, but the new timetable for the 265 has an incorrect description at the top (doesn't mention Salisbury). Link to timetable here (PDF).

One other possible issue, the forthcoming timetable on First's website for the 178 suggests that the last bus from Bath is now as early as 2130, is that correct? Edit: It's not correct, Wessex buses will be running until 2350 but for clarity the timetable on First's website really should display that.

The "forthcoming timetables" are actually a load of twaddle and no different to the current timetables. Look at the Taunton town routes - they should read 1/2/3/4/5/6/7, but actually read 1/1A/3/3A/4. Massive own goal there.

The Salisbury point is exactly the kind of thing I keep an eye out for. Anything and everything that is wrong - even things like times that are one minute out amongst all those around them (e.g. 1916 instead of 1915) - will be done away with once I'm through with it. I feel like such a superhero saying that - or maybe that's where I've been Sailor Moon all evening...! I am told that changes should be ready by Tuesday, although it may another two days before they go live.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
New timetables now on the website. Also appearing today is confirmation from VOSA of the last-minute revision to the 22/22A to include the odd journey to Taunton.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm doing lots of bus service analysis at work at the moment so I'll let you know if I spot anything else.

One other possible issue, the forthcoming timetable on First's website for the 178 suggests that the last bus from Bath is now as early as 2130, is that correct? Edit: It's not correct, Wessex buses will be running until 2350 but for clarity the timetable on First's website really should display that.

Really should they be doing so?

More confusing are Faresaver, perhaps you should ask why they show the evening supported First journeys on their timetables on 231/2 and 272 but NOT the Sunday journeys?