Leeds to Guildford via York and Derby

[ASharpe]

The other day I was traveling from the North East to Guildford with split tickets at leeds (super off peak). For my convenience however I usually don't go via leeds and instead start using the leeds-Guildford (Its the return part) ticket at York.

However on the XC train to Guildford (I got on at Darlington) I was told that I couldn't by the guard (but she did say I could travel that time). I checked the new routing guide and found that that route is no longer valid, map MW now stops and leeds.

On this occasion it wasn't a problem and I decided in the end that I wanted to get home earlier and so I got off at York and got a nonstop EC to London (I did check at the ticket office that was still valid).

However sometimes I like to stop off for a few hours at Derby to visit family or I like to get the direct train to Guildford and sleep all the way, which I don't think I can now do if if I want to go via York and get the XC service.

Can anyone advise on how I might get around this or what excess fare I should expect to pay (With a YP railcard)?

Thanks in advance

 

[Romilly]

I take it that you want to travel from Guildford to Darlington and back.

Like you, I cannot find an itinerary for a Guildford-Leeds super off-peak return that would take me from Guildford to Leeds via York.

But ... super off-peak returns Guildford-Leeds are the same price as those for Guildford-York (£71.60 with a railcard). And if you ask the journey planners for Guildford-York and put Oxford in the "via" box, you will get the Cross Country services via Reading, Oxford, Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield and either Leeds or Doncaster.

So you can still get from Guildford to York via Derby on a single ticket.

At first sight, if you are travelling between Guildford and Darlington, a super off-peak return Guildford-Darlington may be cheaper than splitting at Darlington.

But sometimes on Cross Country from the North East to Oxford, multiple splits (e.g. at Sheffield, Derby and Leamington) can save money, although I have never tried using the Cross Country services further south than that, and have been able to combine a mixture of advance tickets and non-advance tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Leeds - Guildford SSR is valid via "LONDON" so if going via London King's Cross, then it is indeed valid via York.

Alternatively it is valid via Derby.

I would suggest purchasing an alternative ticket, perhaps Cattal to Guildford I expect would match your needs.

 

[Romilly]

Like you, I cannot find an itinerary for a Guildford-Leeds super off-peak return that would take me from Guildford to Leeds via York.

I should have said ... that would take me from Guildford to Leeds via Derby and York.

 

[soil]

Guildford - Grantham at £62 will get you as far as Derby if you are going via BHM.

 

[ASharpe]

Thanks for the replies. For this journey I almost always overnight once or more at Leeds, so the split at Leeds is so that I can stay there on the way there and back. And then I buy a separate ticket to use the next morning to get up to Thornaby, Middlesbrough or Billingham

Saving money isn't really an issue as I always claim this particular journey on expenses. Therefore I don't really want to do anything too confusing with my split tickets. And I can't pay more to get a ticket to somewhere too random.

The plus bus for West Yorkshire is also good to have.

So I would quite like to know if I can just get the return portion excessed before I start that leg to let me start from York? Or should I just go via Leeds as well to get to Derby when I want to.

I am probably going to also send a letter to complain about the change the routing guide that is causing this problem for me.

 

[Romilly]

Yorkie's suggestion of a Guildford-Cattal super off-peak return (Cattal is between York and Leeds on the line which goes via Harrogate), which is the same price as the Guildford-Leeds and Guildford-York super off-peak returns, would allow you to travel out from Guildford to Leeds as it is good for Guildford-Leeds-Cattal and I cannot see a restriction preventing you from breaking (or stopping short on) your outward journey, and would allow you to travel back from York to Guildford as it is good for Cattal-York-Guildford. But with Cattal as the destination on your ticket, it would seem that the WY plusbus would not be available. Equally, if you travelled back to Leeds from your onward NE destination, the ticket would also be good for your eventual Leeds-Guildford trip.

 

[yorkie]

You could get a ticket to Leeds, then an over-distance excess from York, but good luck finding someone to do a zero excess. If you can find a good ticket office to go to, then great.

As for PlusBus, there are some helpful and sensible booking clerks who would issue a PlusBus for West Yorks on a Cattal ticket, but I perfectly understand those who wouldn't because the (bonkers) rules say that officially, they shouldn't. PlusBus is basically a way of the Government pretending to have integrated transport and pretending not to be biased towards car drivers, there is no logical reason whatsoever why a PlusBus should not be available intermediately.

There is also nothing stopping a ticket for which a PlusBus has been issued being excessed.

 

[Paul Kelly]

PlusBus is basically a way of the Government pretending to have integrated transport and pretending not to be biased towards car drivers

Is Plusbus somehow government-subsidised, sponsored or otherwise enforced? I have often wondered how the bus operators agree to it, especially the railcard-discounted version, when they must receive much less revenue than when people buy tickets from the bus operators themselves. The only conclusion I've been able to come to is that there must be enough people buying it but not using it, or not making the most of it, that it is worth their while participating in the scheme. Or is there more to it than that?

 

[yorkie]

Is Plusbus somehow government-subsidised, sponsored or otherwise enforced? I have often wondered how the bus operators agree to it, especially the railcard-discounted version, when they must receive much less revenue than when people buy tickets from the bus operators themselves. The only conclusion I've been able to come to is that there must be enough people buying it but not using it, or not making the most of it, that it is worth their while participating in the scheme. Or is there more to it than that?

I think there is more to it than that, you may find this document interesting. I recommend reading the whole document, but I have quoted some extracts I found to be of particular 'interest'...

Select Committee on Transport Written Evidence
[SIZE=+1]Memorandum from Journey Solutions (TPT 33) [/SIZE]

There is a nation-wide integrated ticketing scheme..

Hmm, I reckon there's some "box-ticking" going on there. If it's truly "nation-wide" then really, I should arguably be able to do any journey with any ticket and get an add-on for any bus journey.

Journey Solutions was created in 1999 to enable the public transport industry to deliver on its commitment of improving transport integration—in particular making combined train and bus travel easier, more convenient and better value for customers. All Journey Solutions work aims to support Government policies on improving and integrating public transport in local communities, across regions and throughout the whole of Britain.

It's not totally clear to me if they were forced or encouraged to do this, or what exactly the "commitments" are.

Journey Solutions also has an Advisory Panel, which includes representatives from a wide range of stakeholders....

I won't list them all here, but some are interesting, including the DfT.

Journey Solutions looks at improving the customers' whole journey experience, including:....

• — integrated ticketing for the whole journey;...

Laughable. Rather than "looking at" improving the experience, all they need to do is allow any PlusBus ticket to be issued for any ticket that is valid via the relevant PlusBus area, and for the PlusBus areas to be, err... "nation-wide" ie, covering all bus services throughout the nation.

So instead of doing that, they are "looking at" and doing nothing.

The minimum standard is...

... very much sub-standard, for what is claimed to be a "nation-wide" scheme, in my opinion!

Journey Solutions would like to thank the Association of Train Operating Companies for their significant ongoing contribution....

...entirely voluntarily, I wonder?