Arundel Chord (between Arundel/Angmering)

[JB_B]

How far did the plans for this get before they were shelved/kicked-into-the-long-grass/forgotten?

I'd heard this would save about 15-20 minutes on Brighton Line diversions via Arun Valley by skipping the Littlehampton reversal (is that right?)

(+Giving a bit more flexibility overall to West Coastway, of course.)


Not that it would be much help today

 

[swt_passenger]

There have not been any recent official proposals, (which is not to say the Southern Railway didn't have it on the back burner decades ago).

AFAICR Southern were going to investigate it. Network Rail probably told them to get lost because it had no business case. This was the NR position in the 2010 Sussex RUS:

Linked to this initiative, others suggested construction of an Arundel Chord to allow West
Coastway to London services to be routed via the Arun Valley at times of engineering works
on the BML and possibly even to generate additional peak capacity. The RUS has not
supported this option for two reasons. Firstly, as outlined in 8.3.4.3, routing of additional
services via the Arun Valley, Dorking and Sutton in the peak is unlikely to generate
additional capacity. Secondly, even during weekend disruption on the BML, journey
times from the eastern end of the West Coastway, i.e. the Brighton and Hove area
would not be attractive via this route.

 

[Taunton]

I was suddenly diverted this way some years ago, southbound on a Brighton fast we were pulled up at Three Bridges, then sent through Horsham, and instead of stopping at the Arundel junction to reverse, went all the way into Littlehampton platform (at about 20 mph all the way), where over 10 minutes were spent changing ends before setting off along the coast, passing Arundel junction for a second time the best part of 30 minutes after the first. So it's no wonder journey times are thought to be 'not attractive'.

A moment of amusement was the large group who had walked right down to the front of the 12-car set on Victoria platform to be first off at Brighton, who as we rolled along the coast through Worthing unsteadily walked through the whole train, tripping over luggage and people's feet along the way, to get to the front again. Just as they must have made it, through Hove, we were however turned left round to Preston Park, where we stopped and changed ends again (another 10 minutes), to enter Brighton on the main line platforms, the ones from the west coast direction being of course too short for 12 cars. And so they had to walk all the way down Brighton platform as well

 

[Andyjs247]

How would a BML2a (via an Arundel curve, Arun Valley and Horsham) compare with suggestions for BML2 via a reinstated Lewes-Uckfield link and Oxted?

 

[ushawk]

How would a BML2a (via an Arundel curve, Arun Valley and Horsham) compare with suggestions for BML2 via a reinstated Lewes-Uckfield link and Oxted?

Would be a lot cheaper as most of the infrastructure is already there, it just needs an upgrade (Dorking-Horsham).

Uckfield - Lewes would need an entirely new railway built and a lot of re-doubling, possibly even a tunnel. Then you get onto the actual BML2 plans which would cost billions with lots of tunnels and double-deck track !!

 

[yorksrob]

How would a BML2a (via an Arundel curve, Arun Valley and Horsham) compare with suggestions for BML2 via a reinstated Lewes-Uckfield link and Oxted?

You wouldn't really gain that much in terms of new travel opportunities as the South Coast can already be reached easily from most of the settlements along the Arundel Valley with a simple change at Littlehampton/Barnham.

For settlements such as Uckfield and Crowborough (and even Oxted) you have to make a large detour via East Croydon to reach the Coast, so in reality, few people will choose this option, and an option through to Tunbridge Wells would eliminate a detour either North via Tonbridge and Redhill or South via Hastings to get to the Brighton area.

Plus, a diversionary route already exists via Littlehampton and the Arundel Valley, whereas the wealden route would represent a third option between Croydon and the Coast.

the Wealden route might cost more initially, but you would get much more benefit.

 

[RichardN]

You could also make the chord really large, say from Shoreham to Christs Hospital to make the journey better from Brighton...

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[yorksrob]

You could also make the chord really large, say from Shoreham to Christs Hospital to make the journey better from Brighton...

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

Now there‘s an idea

 

[MarkyT]

Brighton Main Line diversions via the Arun Valley can reverse at Ford station, saving about 3 km in total over going into Littlehampton. The trailling crossover just to the east of the station and a ground signal makes this possible although all reversing trains in both directions have to use the same down platform, meanwhile blocking it for other trains heading to Barnham and beyond. Littlehampton, a 4 platform terminal off the main line is thus always preferred for any such planned manoeuvres.

 

[tbtc]

Could anyone explain to this outsider how many of the stations between Angmering and Hove would have a faster journey by an extension of the Victoria - Horsham (or Waterloo -Dorking) services than they currently get by the Victoria - Hove - West Causeway service?

Presumably Worthing and Shoreham are the two "biggies", but would these be any faster via Horsham than via Hove?

 

[JonathanH]

Could anyone explain to this outsider how many of the stations between Angmering and Hove would have a faster journey by an extension of the Victoria - Horsham (or Waterloo -Dorking) services than they currently get by the Victoria - Hove - West Causeway service?

Presumably Worthing and Shoreham are the two "biggies", but would these be any faster via Horsham than via Hove?

Probably none of them based on current timetables. Angmering is 1 hour 30 minutes from Victoria on a train that stops at plenty of coastway stations after Hove. It takes Victoria to Horsham via Sutton services 1 hour 10 minutes to complete their journeys.

Given the need to offer stopping services on the line via Sutton, the removal of the passing loops through Cheam, slow curves and junctions at Streatham, Mitcham, Sutton and Epsom, the Arundel curve is not about offering faster journey times to London but seemingly about local journey opportunties.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Could anyone explain to this outsider how many of the stations between Angmering and Hove would have a faster journey by an extension of the Victoria - Horsham (or Waterloo -Dorking) services than they currently get by the Victoria - Hove - West Causeway service?

Presumably Worthing and Shoreham are the two "biggies", but would these be any faster via Horsham than via Hove?

Nothing really, the biggest pain with the west coast service is the time taken up attaching / detaching at Haywards Heath, especially if front portion (on the Up) and rear portion (on the down), along with Southern insisting on stopping them at Burgess Hill and Preston Park, rather than stations along the coast.
There is a service between Brighton and Victoria, that runs in a similar pathway to these, not stopping at Haywards Heath, but Southern are more interested in running 4 trains an hour to / from Brighton, as they can abstract revenue from FCC, rather than providing a faster service to both the East and West Sussex coast.

 

[Pixa]

It would make my commute by train, when I take it, from Worthing to Horsham much better, especially avoiding the 3 minute connection they reckon you can make in the peak at Barnham.

The benefit of being able to go from the coast to London via the Arundel chord would be being able to go via Dorking and avoid the bottleneck at East Croyden. But if that was a good idea, then the Arun Valley services would run that way...

 

[tbtc]

Probably none of them based on current timetables. Angmering is 1 hour 30 minutes from Victoria on a train that stops at plenty of coastway stations after Hove. It takes Victoria to Horsham via Sutton services 1 hour 10 minutes to complete their journeys.

Given the need to offer stopping services on the line via Sutton, the removal of the passing loops through Cheam, slow curves and junctions at Streatham, Mitcham, Sutton and Epsom, the Arundel curve is not about offering faster journey times to London but seemingly about local journey opportunties.

Cheers for the information - I appreciate that there's going to be some market for a direct Brighton service from parts of Surrey/ Sussex (regardless of whether its any better for a London - Worthing/ Shoreham journey. Interesting.

Nothing really, the biggest pain with the west coast service is the time taken up attaching / detaching at Haywards Heath, especially if front portion (on the Up) and rear portion (on the down), along with Southern insisting on stopping them at Burgess Hill and Preston Park, rather than stations along the coast.
There is a service between Brighton and Victoria, that runs in a similar pathway to these, not stopping at Haywards Heath, but Southern are more interested in running 4 trains an hour to / from Brighton, as they can abstract revenue from FCC, rather than providing a faster service to both the East and West Sussex coast.

Hopefully a combined TSGN franchise will focus more on the Coastway services (instead of throwing lots of resources on competition on the Brighton - London market).

 

[JonathanH]

It would make my commute by train, when I take it, from Worthing to Horsham much better, especially avoiding the 3 minute connection they reckon you can make in the peak at Barnham.

The benefit of being able to go from the coast to London via the Arundel chord would be being able to go via Dorking and avoid the bottleneck at East Croyden. But if that was a good idea, then the Arun Valley services would run that way...

Arun Valley services run the way they do because of the importance of Crawley, Gatwick Airport and East Croydon and because it is the route over which the fastest service from Horsham to London can be offered (and would be even quicker if they didn't have to run via Redhill). This has been the case for 35 years now.

Even the limited stop trains for the Gatwick diversions show trains taking almost an hour to get from Horsham to Clapham Junction with stops at Dorking and Sutton. In contrast, the 1702 from London Victoria to Horsham via the Quarry Line on a normal weekday reaches Horsham in 48 minutes regardless of any perceived bottleneck at East Croydon.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There is space at Arundel on the southbound side for a third platform, the line could run from this onto a new chord to Brighton. Services-wise, well a Littlehampton - Arundel - fast to Brighton service could work.

Whoever suggested reopening the Christ's Hospital to Shorham line, great idea but the amount of bridges it would require being replaced and the fact that the site of Southwater has Lintot Square built on it, the only possiblity for this would be by having a PPM running along a realigned line.