Construction progress: TPE 350/4

[northwichcat]

Yep, that's a common "feature" of all 350 and 450s. Gets particularly bad when they have to show a destination of more than ten letters (Wolverhampton, Northampton, Basingstoke, Bournemouth, and so on).

Can the destination displays scroll? The 175 ones do, which is used as well considering they show things likes "Manchester Piccadilly / Manceinion Piccadilly"

 

[Eagle]

Can the destination displays scroll?

Nope. Not sure why, there are loads of other trains with scrolling front displays. It's only Desiros with the awkward design. (Also they seem to be the only ones that use green LEDs rather than amber.)

 

[Starmill]

Managed a ride on 350 403 today from Lancester to Manchester Airport.
Comfortably full, pleasant ambience, 8 late.
You do notice the quiet after the noisy 185 engines, but otherwise it's just another Desiro.
Not that impressed by the ride. In fact the class 323 "pocket rocket" I got onwards from Manchester Airport to Crewe was much more stable at speed.
The Northern drivers must enjoy the 100mph Alderley Edge-Holmes Chapel dash.
At MIA more people got on the 350 for the 1400 return journey than got off, but it's hard to know how many were going beyond Manchester.
The curse of the 350 gangway connection means there is only a small front-end destination display.
It just said "Manchester" which is rather ambiguous.
The side display was able to show the full destination.
Disappointing that the TP crews kept it in arrival mode until just before departure.
Many people wanting to board were put off by the "Manchester" displays still running.
Also disappointing to find an empty 185 parked up at the buffers in front, apparently going to form the 1600 to Edinburgh.
This left most of the 350 out in the wind and rain.
The adjacent TP departure to York left nearly empty.
If you want to know where there is spare capacity on the network, it's between Piccadilly and the Airport.
I also noticed a Barrow-Preston TP 185 at Lancaster with only a handful on board.
Circumstantial I know.
350 402 was parked up at Preston, its Carlisle ECS runs cancelled.
Where is 350 401?

Regarding the bold about 323s - I certainly enjoy it as a passenger! 323s are brilliant at doing the job they do; great crowd-swallowers with 23m carriages and very good accelleration as well as pretty tidy inside following what is probably the best refresh Northern have given out. However I was under the impression they are limited to 90? That's not to say some drivers don't think they could do more than that! The 17:38 from Picc manages Alderley Edge all the way to Sandbach, but I've never been on it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

However I was under the impression they are limited to 90? That's not to say some drivers don't think they could do more than that!

You are right, the Porterbrook fleet lists says 90mph.
It just feels faster!

 

[Rhydgaled]

The curse of the 350 gangway connection means there is only a small front-end destination display.

158s also have tiny destination displays on the ends, but they managed to fit long names (on two lines) before refurbishment. Very hard to read them though, the LEDs are much clearer.

there are loads of other trains with scrolling front displays.

ATW's new 158s displays can scroll, but that makes them almost as hard to read as the old displays. I think I prefer it when they use the abreivated non-scrolling (eg. 'Birmingham Int.') destination.

 

[anthony263]

Most of the time the screen on atw's class 158's seem to just show the ATW website address

 

[BantamMenace]

It just said "Manchester" which is rather ambiguous.
The side display was able to show the full destination.

These things should get ironed out as they become routine.

Do the crews type in the destination character for character or do they simple select the destination to which the computer then displays just manchester?

Surely it'd be better off saying just Airport and best case displaying "manc airpt"?

 

[Pumbaa]

These things should get ironed out as they become routine.

Do the crews type in the destination character for character or do they simple select the destination to which the computer then displays just manchester?

Surely it'd be better off saying just Airport and best case displaying "manc airpt"?

Each working has a pre-set programme on the onboard train management system. The guard or driver will simply insert the relevant code for the service and the system will spring to life.

 

[BantamMenace]

I see, who can change the program then so that when a programme with man airport as the destination is selected a more appropriate message is shown on the destination display?

Could a driver do it? Could TPE head office do it? TPE maintainance crews? Or does it have to be done by Siemens?

 

[Crossover]

Where is 350 401?

Probably being fixed of the quirks found on its maiden voyage. I don't think it has been out since then actually

 

[Rhydgaled]

Most of the time the screen on atw's class 158's seem to just show the ATW website address

Yes, and rather annoying it is too. I think there was at least one ATW 158 that had an LED display (not the same design as the one they have now) before refurbishment. That was much better than the new ones with their web-address habit.

 

[Starmill]

You are right, the Porterbrook fleet lists says 90mph.
It just feels faster!

Certainly does!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Probably being fixed of the quirks found on its maiden voyage. I don't think it has been out since then actually

Any official update to this matter ?

 

[northwichcat]

You are right, the Porterbrook fleet lists says 90mph.
It just feels faster!

I think the 323s have better acceleration than most EMUs, which make them ideal for use on services calling at intermediate stations between Piccadilly and Manchester Airport, on the WCML north of Crewe/Stoke and on the Glossop line (slower top speed but limited pathing.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

158s also have tiny destination displays on the ends, but they managed to fit long names (on two lines) before refurbishment. Very hard to read them though, the LEDs are much clearer.

ATW's new 158s displays can scroll, but that makes them almost as hard to read as the old displays. I think I prefer it when they use the abreivated non-scrolling (eg. 'Birmingham Int.') destination.

ATW also have to show both the English and Welsh names for destinations on the new displays due to WAG requirements.

I think on trains the displays should be like some buses where there's a fixed display on the top line and a scrolling one underneath.

They could also change the displays part way along the route. For instance at Edinburgh/Glasgow whether it's Manchester Airport via Wigan or via Bolton probably isn't that important but at Preston which way it's going is important, especially if there's delays and a Blackpool-Airport via Bolton service turns up when passengers are expecting a Scotland-Airport via Wigan service to turn up.

 

[Starmill]

As a matter of interest, does anybody know what happened to the 350(s) on Saturday, if anything, given the blockade? I assume the same M-F diagrams still prevail?

 

[Thomas6187]

The 17:38 from Picc manages Alderley Edge all the way to Sandbach

Try the 08:38 off Piccadilly, it's express Alderley to Crewe

 

[WatcherZero]

Looking ahead to May, once the full order has been delivered and accepted, I'd expect to see a list of 350 diagrams something like this, Mon-Thurs:

1. 05:58 Man Airport-Edinburgh, 10:08 Edinburgh-Man Airport, 14:00 Man Airport-Edinburgh, 18:12 Edinburgh-Man Piccadilly/Airport

2. 07:25 Man Airport-Edinburgh, 12:12 Edinburgh-Man Airport, 16:00 Man Airport-Edinburgh, 20:12 Edinburgh-Man Piccadilly

3. 07:00 Man Airport-Glasgow, 11:09 Glasgow-Man Airport, 15:00 Man Airport-Glasgow

4. 07:09 Glasgow-Man Airport, 11:00 Man Airport-Glasgow, 15:09 Glasgow-Man Airport, 19:00 Man Airport-Glasgow

5. 05:-- Glasgow-Man Airport, 09:00 Man Airport-Glasgow, 13:09 Glasgow-Man Airport, 17:00 Man Airport-Glasgow

6. 06:15 Edinburgh-Man Airport, 10:00 Man Airport-Edinburgh, 14:16 Edinburgh-Man Airport, 18:00 Man Airport-Edinburgh

7. 08:12 Edinburgh-Man Airport, 12:00 Man Airport-Edinburgh, 16:12 Edinburgh-Man Airport, 20:00 Man Airport-Edinburgh

8. 09:-- Glasgow-Man Airport, 13:00 Man Airport-Glasgow, 17:06 Glasgow-Manchester


Some of those services don't currently exist though it seems likely they will do come May to accommodate the 15 trains per day each way. Currently the 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00 departures from the Airport go to Barrow. Also going off the draft timetable in the tfgm documents, the 22:00 Man Airport-Barrow won't run from May. With two 350s booked on the depot each day it seems 185s will only be needed for extra strengthening rather than to cover for shortages.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It's currently booked as a 350 working though don't be surprised if a 185 turns up.

Looks rightish, officially 8/10 350's will be required mon-thu. On Fri-Sun 9/10 along with a couple of 185's. Presumably if a couple of 350's are out of commission they would have to destrengthen a north TPE service.

That would mean something like 8x Single 350's mon-thu and fri-sun if the same frequency one 2x185, two 2x350 and five 1x350.

 

[Pumbaa]

I see, who can change the program then so that when a programme with man airport as the destination is selected a more appropriate message is shown on the destination display?

Could a driver do it? Could TPE head office do it? TPE maintainance crews? Or does it have to be done by Siemens?

On at least one TOC who have a strong fleet of Siemens trains all using this system, the PIS (Passenger Information System) data are complied by the same team responsible for the on-station Customer Information System (CIS ie the overhead screens and announcements). This team is in charge of delivering all information to customers, through trains, stations, media, etc.

They decide the scripts, the way the announcements are phrased, the way the screens display, including the spellings etc.

These are sent to Siemens (the Fleet team) who turn them into a format the train computers can read and upload them onto the trains.

The Guards on certain trains and systems have the ability to alter/edit the messages the screens display and if the announcements play, and they can do that from their control point in their office (if applicable) or on the consoles in the cabs.

 

[WatcherZero]

On a 185 today really annoyingly the guard would announce the calling points immediately after and every time the automated PIS announced them.

 

[Class172]

On a 185 today really annoyingly the guard would announce the calling points immediately after and every time the automated PIS announced them.

I've come across that a couple of times - I don't know why they do this: it's as if they think the automated announcements don't so anything.

 

[ModernRailways]

On a 185 today really annoyingly the guard would announce the calling points immediately after and every time the automated PIS announced them.

The Newcastle crews seem to love doing that. It makes no sense.

Some Southern conductors also make announcements, although they usually interrupt the PIS so it doesn't duplicate.

 

[Starmill]

The Newcastle crews seem to love doing that. It makes no sense.

Some Southern conductors also make announcements, although they usually interrupt the PIS so it doesn't duplicate.

I think it does make sense, because guards the country over still make announcements on trains which have PIS. If I am on a long-distance train for two hours and there are no announcements it just doesn't quite feel right and that is sometimes extended to where PIS is fitted and in use. This phenomenon may simply be the guard in 'doing it properly' mode but forgetting to mute the announcements first.

 

[northwichcat]

The Newcastle crews seem to love doing that. It makes no sense.

They must be of the impression the announcements are part of the guard's role and no machine is going to stop us from doing them.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I've come across that a couple of times - I don't know why they do this: it's as if they think the automated announcements don't so anything.

Generally people don't listen to automated announcements. Feedback has shown people prefer the personal touch and I did hear they may be a plan to actually permanently mute the auto announcements on the 185s and get guards to do manual announcements. It is perfectly easy and possible to make manual announcements and NOT have the auto ones too. Just need to know your timing.

 

[pdq]

If the guard is in the rear cab, can they hear the automated announcements?

 

[sd0733]

No, on a 350 you can't hear the announcements in the cabs at all, either end. You get to learn where it makes the announcements though so you just press the button as it is about to start and do it yourself and the auto doesn't play then as you've over-ridden it but it still comes up on the screen.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Get the guard to make the announcements, and then all the automated voice has to do is exhort us to check the safety notices every five minutes. Which is obviously important, because every time I (don't) see lots of people get up from their seats to go and read said safety notices.

 

[edwin_m]

Get the guard to make the announcements, and then all the automated voice has to do is exhort us to check the safety notices every five minutes. Which is obviously important, because every time I (don't) see lots of people get up from their seats to go and read said safety notices.

And to remind you that TPE observes the NRCoC so they'll do you if you're in First Class etc etc.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

No, on a 350 you can't hear the announcements in the cabs at all, either end. You get to learn where it makes the announcements though so you just press the button as it is about to start and do it yourself and the auto doesn't play then as you've over-ridden it but it still comes up on the screen.

Ditto class 185. The only clue is when the PA button illuminates.

 

[Phlip]

Looks rightish, officially 8/10 350's will be required mon-thu. On Fri-Sun 9/10 along with a couple of 185's. Presumably if a couple of 350's are out of commission they would have to destrengthen a north TPE service.

Why would North West TPE automatically take priority over North TPE? Why would North West services not be destrengthened?