East Coast Franchise Short Listed Bidders

[SkinnyDave]

Hi Cant post link yet but DFT announce the bidders will be
First
Keolis/Eurostar
Stagecoach/Virgin

 

[TheKnightWho]

I know this will probably be futile, but can we not have a big circle-jerk about DOR not being allowed to bid please?

 

[TUC]

Hi Cant post link yet but DFT announce the bidders will be
First
Keolis/Eurostar
Stagecoach/Virgin

If Stagecoach/Virgin won it would create an interesting situation in that one would hope that they would then be ruled out of bidding for the West Coast on competition grounds, which could leave the field more open for First to win that line after all!

 

[MisterWhippy]

A general Google and I came across this article and although doesn't say much, it does state that FirstGroup is one of the successful shortlisters.

http://www.stockmarketwire.com/arti...p-delighted-with-East-Coast-shortlisting.html

 

[IanXC]

I know this will probably be futile, but can we not have a big circle-jerk about DOR not being allowed to bid please?

Indeed - there are other threads where DfT policy on DOR bids can be discussed (or indeed a new thread can be created).

 

[The Planner]

If Stagecoach/Virgin won it would create an interesting situation in that one would hope that they would then be ruled out of bidding for the West Coast on competition grounds, which could leave the field more open for First to win that line after all!

That argument has been done to death as well, as surely the competition is the bid not who wins it and what they already run?

 

[swt_passenger]

If Stagecoach/Virgin won it would create an interesting situation in that one would hope that they would then be ruled out of bidding for the West Coast on competition grounds, which could leave the field more open for First to win that line after all!

No it wouldn't - this has been repeated every time someone has raised this point before, but the ECML and WCML are not considered to be in competition with one another.

Given that this bid is expected to be about 90% Stagecoach anyway, surely the bigger problem would be with the MML?

 

[YorkshireBear]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/shortlist-for-new-intercity-east-coast-rail-services

Link for those who want it.

The shortlist of bidders that will be invited to deliver proposals for improved services for passengers on the Intercity East Coast rail franchise was announced by the government today (17 January 2014).

The companies that have successfully passed the ‘Pre-qualification evaluation’ stage and can now start working on developing their plans for the franchise, before they receive the government’s ‘Invitation to tender’ are:

East Coast Trains Ltd (First Group plc)
Keolis/Eurostar East Coast Limited (Keolis (UK) Limited and Eurostar International Limited)
Inter City Railways Limited (Stagecoach Transport Holdings Limited and Virgin Holdings Limited)
These potential operators will need to consider how they intend to use the latest high-tech trains, built in the UK by Agility, to deliver more passengers to more of the UK’s biggest cities faster and in greater comfort.

The government is expecting to see how the future operators will capitalise on the significant government investment along this route, including £240 million in infrastructure projects over the next 5 years to improve capacity and reduce journey times.

Rail Minister Stephen Hammond said:

Giving passengers more will be at the heart of the new East Coast franchise. That means new services and journeys that are faster, more punctual and more comfortable. When these companies are developing their proposals they should be looking at ways to innovate and grow the service.

We have embarked on one of the biggest programmes of rail investment ever, with over £35 billion being spent to enhance and run our rail network over the next 5 years. But for our railways to continue to grow we need strong private sector partners who can invest and innovate in ways that deliver a world class service.

Since rail services were privatised in 1993, the close cooperation between government and the train companies has heralded an unprecedented growth in the number of passengers.

While the East Coast franchise has been stabilised under government ownership since 2009, the route now needs a long term private sector operator to plan for the future and meet the increasing demands for more trains serving even more destinations.

When it started the franchise competition in October 2013 the government published the InterCity East Coast prospectus which set out the areas prospective bidders will need to consider when they start developing their proposals. These include:

developing innovative timetables which build on the core train service requirement published by the Department for Transport (DfT)
investment in innovative ways to transform the customer experience on trains and at stations
identifying further opportunities for investment along the route, particularly at stations
making the route and train operations more considerate of the environment
involving communities along the route in local decision making
demonstrating how their proposals will support economic growth along the route
To pass the rigorous Pre-qualification evaluation each of the bidders were asked to demonstrate that they have the financial strength, legal, operational and safety experience to run the franchise.

The DfT is planning to issue the ‘Invitation to tender’ at the end of February and the potential operators will then have at least 3 months to develop their bids, before the new services start in February 2015.

East Coast is one of the two main London to Scotland railways providing frequent services. It is an electrified 393 miles (632 kilometres) railway link between London, Peterborough, Doncaster, Leeds, York, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

It is one of the fastest conventional lines in the UK with most of the line being cleared for 125 miles per hour (200 kilometres per hour) operation. Non-electrified line extends further north into Scotland from Edinburgh to Inverness and Aberdeen. The services meet demand for business travel, particularly between Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Leeds and London, leisure travel to a variety of destinations and commuter journeys, primarily between Newark, Grantham, Peterborough and London.

 

[gordonthemoron]

which new destinations will these be? Sunderland, Middlesborough, Cleethorpes?

 

[YorkshireBear]

which new destinations will these be? Sunderland, Middlesborough, Cleethorpes?

Those three yes, but Lincoln wants more services, Scarborough wants a few, Harrogate wants more.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have to say that I find all the options very underwhelming. The same old names and faces providing the same old service at the same old sky-high prices. None of these companies have a glistening track record on "innovation", unless you want to be sarcastic and call the disastrous Operation Princess an innovation. It'd have been nice to see a genuinely new player in the market, but there you go.

Given that DafT are going to have to force this through before the next General Election, I'm thinking of running a sweepstake on what they will do to mess it up.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Eurostar are new to the franchised market.

Do we really want to let a new player with little experience loose on arguably the most prestigious route in the country? I don't. Bear in mind many others applied and were rejected completely because there initial ideas were not considered good enough.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I didn't count Lincoln, Harrogate (or Bradford, Hull, Skipton) because EC already go there a bit. Still, could be that Daft aren't very good at English

 

[YorkshireBear]

I didn't count Lincoln, Harrogate (or Bradford, Hull, Skipton) because EC already go there a bit. Still, could be that Daft aren't very good at English

Got to remember this is Spin. So it will include some one places per day. And also intermediate stops between ECML and new destinations.

 

[Bishopstone]

Anyone but First Group.

Kings Cross - Inverness is a long way to go on a short-formed driver-only train with no catering.

Cost control is important, but the East Coast deserves better than a zero ambition operator.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Anyone but First Group.

Kings Cross - Inverness is a long way to go on a short-formed driver-only train with no catering.

Cost control is important, but the East Coast deserves better than a zero ambition operator.

Seriously?

Because that is how London Penzance has ended up isn't it?????

Euston Inverness via Sleeper does just fine.

Evidence to your point?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Do we really want to let a new player with little experience loose on arguably the most prestigious route in the country? I don't.

The relevant experience can be bought. Sea Containers had no experience of public transportation but most people would have them back in a heartbeat.

I just think it's a shame that they have gone for the same old faces dishing up the same old mediocrity at the same old sky high price.

 

[swt_passenger]

...Bear in mind many others applied and were rejected completely because there initial ideas were not considered good enough.

That is not the purpose of 'pre-qualification', which is to "assess the legal, financial and economic standing and technical and professional ability".

Ideas for the future franchise come later on, in response to the ITT. As DfT point out in the linked quote above, this is yet to be issued.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Because that is how London Penzance has ended up isn't it?????

Evidence to your point?

TPE is exceptionally mediocre.

First Great Western aren't too bad on the InterCity routes, but when you get beyond Reading there are some interesting stock allocations. 143s are not an uncommon sight on trains between Exeter and Plymouth, and 150s are the mainstay of the Cornish main line.

I don't really want to discuss whose fault it is- I equally blame First, Keolis and DafT- but there's certainly nothing innovative about either of those two franchises.

First deserve some credit for ScotRail, although I would send more of the credit to Transport Scotland for bankrolling it. And ScotRail was always a strong operator; I don't think it's noticeably improved since the much-maligned National Express lost the franchise.

We'll just not talk about Capital Connect.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That is not the purpose of 'pre-qualification', which is to "assess the legal, financial and economic standing and technical and professional ability".

Ideas for the future franchise come later on, in response to the ITT. As DfT point out in the linked quote above, this is yet to be issued.

Sorry yes i am aware of that i was just being simple. What i meant is if those things listed are not good enough can we trust them to be innovative because it would be too risky. Should have explained myself more clearly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I can argue First's strong points as much as i want but FCC kinda lets them down :P

 

[swt_passenger]

First Great Western aren't too bad on the InterCity routes, but when you get beyond Reading there are some interesting stock allocations. 143s are not an uncommon sight on trains between Exeter and Plymouth, and 150s are the mainstay of the Cornish main line.

That's practically irrelevant though. If the same idea of a 'triple franchise' actually had been adopted for the ECML, they'd already have the same problem, with most of Northern and the GN already being part of the same franchise.

Hypothetically the equivalent would be saying ECML are OK on their main routes but they use crappy old 313s on the Moorgate route...

But they haven't done that, so what FGW get up to on Thames Valley and West services (as franchised by DfT) should be discounted.

 

[gordonthemoron]

TPE is pretty good between Leeds & Manchester, not used them much elsewhere

 

[TUC]

Eurostar are new to the franchised market.

Do we really want to let a new player with little experience loose on arguably the most prestigious route in the country?

Yes, the franchise market desperately needs new players.

 

[gordonthemoron]

PKP would be an interesting addition to franchise holders

 

[Morgsie]

Devil is in the detail which is still confidential under the Franchising rules. We won't see all the details until the process is complete and the bidder is announced.

 

[TEW]

First Great Western aren't too bad on the InterCity routes, but when you get beyond Reading there are some interesting stock allocations. 143s are not an uncommon sight on trains between Exeter and Plymouth, and 150s are the mainstay of the Cornish main line.

143s are actually pretty much unheard of in Plymouth, it happens a couple of times a year at most. I'm not really sure what other solutions you suggest considering the stock FGW have?

 

[transmanche]

Eurostar are new to the franchised market.

That intrigued me when it was first announced.

Both Keolis (70%) and Eurostar (55%*) are majority-owned by SNCF. Keolis are the minor partners in four existing franchises; but their name is unknown to the general public. But the Eurostar name is well-known to the public and probably has a good image.

So is the plan to use the Eurostar name for the public image, whilst Keolis gets on with the job? Perhaps similar to Virgin Trains; where the general public see the Virgin brand but are probably unaware of Stagecoach's involvement.[/QUOTE]

* And likely to be higher when the government sells-off L&CR

 

[Chrisgr31]

That is not the purpose of 'pre-qualification', which is to "assess the legal, financial and economic standing and technical and professional ability".

Presumably it is the bit in bold which would be difficult for a new entrant to meet, particularly on the ECML.

 

[Tetchytyke]

what FGW get up to on Thames Valley and West services (as franchised by DfT) should be discounted.

I'm not so sure it should.

I know the Bristol overcrowding situation was complex, with DafT taking trains away from the area and leaving First to cop the abuse for it. I know you can't just blame First for what happened, even though plenty of people did (I guess the Worst/First pun just writes itself).

Changing some of the HSTs to High Density and then using them inappropriately in a common pool (I remember FGW saying they wouldn't be used to Cornwall) was a very poor decision though.

My point was more that I've not seen anything from any of the First franchises that shouts out "wow, they're innovative". TPE (in partnership with the silent Keolis) do a solid enough job, although their weekend stock allocations are baffling. FGW are alright. ScotRail are alright. And then we have Capital Connect.

As I said: the same old faces providing the same old mediocre service for the same old sky-high fee.

 

[Monty]

I'm rather hoping that if the Virgin/Stagecoach bid is successful I'll get free travel up the ECML as Stagecoach are the majority shareholder in this bid.