Class 60's to Colas

[Beveridges]

I think enthusiasts are in control at Colas. Look at all the clagworthy traction they've got or are getting. 37s, 56s and now 60s. They are beginning to make DRS' s collection look insignificant.

 

[ExRes]

From the Colas Rail website, news section

http://www.colasrail.co.uk/media/news.html#Colas

Newest news headed 'Colas Rail signs freight haulage contract with Network Rail'

 

[tcm1106]

It's been reported elsewhere that 60s 002/021/026/047/056/076/085/087/095/096 are now in the COLS pool on TOPS.

Confirmed

 

[ExRes]

That's good news then, railway assets being used instead of sitting in a yard waiting for rust and disuse to kill them off

Next thought then, who is going to do the work, are Colas to do it themselves, are Wabtec in with a shout or will DBS do it and maybe even Super60 them as part of the sale ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Network rail Infrastructure

The key point is that Colas have won a £90m "part of" the biggest contract, as the press release says 'mainly Southern and Western' - they are still sharing the work with other FOCs when considered nationally.

From NR's press release:

DB Schenker, Freightliner Heavy Haul, GBRf, Direct Rail Services and Colas Rail will provide locomotives and drivers under contracts worth more than £600m over five years.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ulage-agreement-with-five-suppliers-1fca.aspx

So less than a fifth of the total...

 

[fgwrich]

That's good news then, railway assets being used instead of sitting in a yard waiting for rust and disuse to kill them off

Next thought then, who is going to do the work, are Colas to do it themselves, are Wabtec in with a shout or will DBS do it and maybe even Super60 them as part of the sale ?

This whole business does seem to be a messy mixture of truth and wibble at the moment, however we can at least now ascertain that Colas have 10 60s from DBS - I have seen it somewhere that these will be 'Super 60D' by DBS themselves in Toton (that's generous of them if true but it's probably at an extra cost!), but then again I've seen it also stated as these are the 20 that were originally stated for purchase by Wabtec - So will there be more to come or was that just truth and rumour?

 

[Darandio]

Network rail Infrastructure

So absolutely nowhere near 'one of the biggest freight contracts*' then?

*Your words.

 

[DarloRich]

So absolutely nowhere near 'one of the biggest freight contracts*' then?

*Your words.

Correct - Not one of the biggest, THE biggest.

(In any event the profit off that £90m contact flowing into your coffers isn't to bad! )

 

[swt_passenger]

Correct - Not one of the biggest, THE biggest.

But if you go back to post #55 37671 has misleadingly written it so as to imply that Colas have the whole contract...

 

[DarloRich]

But if you go back to post #55 37671 has misleadingly written it so as to imply that Colas have the whole contract...

they have the whole part of the contract they won

Agreed that they dont have it all. However they, as a company, have made great advances in a relatively short space of time

 

[Bevan Price]

How original! I've never heard that one before!

During the Railfreight petroleum celebration day in the 1990's, 60's reached 75mph+ on charter traffic! Hundreds of bashers witnessed this unusual event. Maybe they can't now because the computer now restricts them to 60mph. There was even reports on the WANX forum of the 59/2's reaching 75mph on tests as well!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

.

Cannot remember all the details, or who told me, but after the event, management were said to be "less than pleased", because of some damage to the locos, caused by running at excessive speeds (presumably meaning damage to the electronics).

In the absence of control electronics, and pre-data recorders / radar traps, freight locos such as 56s and 58s could, and did, reach the high 90s on passenger work, despite their official 75 mph limits.

 

[455driver]

Correct - Not one of the biggest, THE biggest.

(In any event the profit off that £90m contact flowing into your coffers isn't to bad! )

They have got less than one fifth of ther contract though not all of it as has been alluded to by some people!

 

[#1 driver]

In the absence of control electronics, and pre-data recorders / radar traps, freight locos such as 56s and 58s could, and did, reach the high 90s on passenger work, despite their official 75 mph limits.

I've been on a freight train that was doing over 100mph with a 56 !
( not me driving )

BUT a 60 WILL NOT go over 63mph on its own power !


there is a lot of "a bloke told a mate's next door neighbours cat" that a 60 did 75mph .
if I said it does mach 5 , does that make it true ?

 

[tjlrailblue]

any news on the other ten that were put up for sale?

are colas buying ten outright or are they leasing them from wabtec or someone else?

tim

 

[ExRes]

any news on the other ten that were put up for sale?

are colas buying ten outright or are they leasing them from wabtec or someone else?

tim

Quite honestly nobody knows, or those that do aren't prepared to let on. The purported Wabtec purchase fell through some time ago so I doubt they have any part in this transaction at all

Interestingly the DBS website states that they have no locos for sale, but then if DBS is the true heir to EWS they wouldn't know what locos they own let alone what's for sale

Hopefully these Colas 60s will be Super60'd as the extra work is the least that the techs at Toton deserve

 

[BantamMenace]

Can someone let a poor uneducated sole like me know what a super60 is or what super60'ing entails.

 

[fireftrm]

A full overhaul, basically like the original works visit, with reliability mods. Not super really, just a title for the refurbished ones.

 

[ExRes]

A Super60 thread from rmweb that may be of interest

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...voCIBA&usg=AFQjCNEJVcrbpjzr1_UyD6UhAZlAxLMPng

 

[Brian Aylott]

Quite honestly nobody knows, or those that do aren't prepared to let on. The purported Wabtec purchase fell through some time ago so I doubt they have any part in this transaction at all

Interestingly the DBS website states that they have no locos for sale, but then if DBS is the true heir to EWS they wouldn't know what locos they own let alone what's for sale

Hopefully these Colas 60s will be Super60'd as the extra work is the least that the techs at Toton deserve

Obviously DBS know exactly what locos they own and it is a fact that there are none for sale at present - with all those on the last tender list (ITT) having been sold
All the fleet are allocated to Groups 1 - 4 with 1 being the operational fleet including those having repairs and exams and 4 being those surplus to requirements
The allocations to these WQxx pools are looked at each quarter and decisions made regarding changes including the possible issue of an ITT
It seems likely that any will now be few and far between, assuming that DBS's Class 60 fleet will remain at 80 as surplus Class 92s will go to Europe (and maybe more Class 66s) leaving only Class 08/09/58s to be included on any ITT
Brian

 

[ExRes]

I find it difficult to agree with you, DBS put 20 Class 60s up for sale and 20 Class 60s HAVE NOT been sold

The Wabtec deal fell through so in my book that can only mean either 10 have been sold to Colas and 10 have been withdrawn from sale or all 20 have been withdrawn from sale and 10 of them are being leased to Colas by DBS

 

[junglejames]

I think enthusiasts are in control at Colas. Look at all the clagworthy traction they've got or are getting. 37s, 56s and now 60s. They are beginning to make DRS' s collection look insignificant.

We keep hearing how DRS and Colas are run by enthusiasts, but there was me thought enthusiasts didnt like 47s??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've been on a freight train that was doing over 100mph with a 56 !
( not me driving )

BUT a 60 WILL NOT go over 63mph on its own power !


there is a lot of "a bloke told a mate's next door neighbours cat" that a 60 did 75mph .
if I said it does mach 5 , does that make it true ?

Not now they wont go above 63, as they no doubt have limiters on. However they are geared for 75. Just depends whether it would fry the motors

 

[Beveridges]

We keep hearing how DRS and Colas are run by enthusiasts, but there was me thought enthusiasts didnt like 47s??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Theres enough enthusiasts who like 47s, they just aren't usually people's favourite. Its the 66s which enthusiasts generally hate! But 66s have an important place in every FOCs fleet, which is why even DRS and Colas have them. They are great for business as you get a lot of value for money out of them.

 

[Brian Aylott]

I find it difficult to agree with you, DBS put 20 Class 60s up for sale and 20 Class 60s HAVE NOT been sold

The Wabtec deal fell through so in my book that can only mean either 10 have been sold to Colas and 10 have been withdrawn from sale or all 20 have been withdrawn from sale and 10 of them are being leased to Colas by DBS

So you know that Colas are not getting all 20 do you?????????
Brian

 

[junglejames]

Theres enough enthusiasts who like 47s, they just aren't usually people's favourite. Its the 66s which enthusiasts generally hate! But 66s have an important place in every FOCs fleet, which is why even DRS and Colas have them. They are great for business as you get a lot of value for money out of them.

Be interesting to see if 66s remain great value for money if fuel prices go up anymore.

 

[ExRes]

So you know that Colas are not getting all 20 do you?????????
Brian

I know nothing of the sort, nor do I pretend to be in the know as some do on this site, not even with an overly dramatic 9 question marks. As a majority of comments on here question the purchase and potential use of 10 Class 60s I would imagine that Colas would be playing with fire purchasing all 20, unless they have secured a completely new source of work with which they are to spring shock and awe on the rail freight industry
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Obviously DBS know exactly what locos they own and it is a fact that there are none for sale at present - with all those on the last tender list (ITT) having been sold
All the fleet are allocated to Groups 1 - 4 with 1 being the operational fleet including those having repairs and exams and 4 being those surplus to requirements
The allocations to these WQxx pools are looked at each quarter and decisions made regarding changes including the possible issue of an ITT
It seems likely that any will now be few and far between, assuming that DBS's Class 60 fleet will remain at 80 as surplus Class 92s will go to Europe (and maybe more Class 66s) leaving only Class 08/09/58s to be included on any ITT
Brian

You know as fact that DBS have no locos for sale at present, you will be able to state the owner/owners of all 20 of the Class 60s that were placed for sale then ?

 

[WestCountry]

Not now they wont go above 63, as they no doubt have limiters on. However they are geared for 75. Just depends whether it would fry the motors

If it would fry the motors to travel at 75mph, they aren't geared for that speed rather by definition. :roll:

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Theres enough enthusiasts who like 47s, they just aren't usually people's favourite. Its the 66s which enthusiasts generally hate! But 66s have an important place in every FOCs fleet, which is why even DRS and Colas have them. They are great for business as you get a lot of value for money out of them.

Enthusiasts like 47s now, because they are rare. People who wouldn't have even turned to look at a 47 hauled passenger train in the 1990s would scramble to get on one now.

Afterall, the Class 60s were hardly perused across the country and loved by fans when they were becoming the homogeneous freight haulers until the American imports started.

To be honest I doubt Colas or DBS are concerned with the 'enthusiast' appeal of their fleet - these locos are existing, reliable and presumably cheaper than buying new imports.

 

[Brian Aylott]

You know as fact that DBS have no locos for sale at present, you will be able to state the owner/owners of all 20 of the Class 60s that were placed for sale then ?[/QUOTE]

Yes
Brian

 

[Jamesb1974]

Just a final thought for those on here who are convinced that class 60's once went at 75mph and are now 'limited' to 60mph.

The most glaring piece of evidence against the 75mph rumour is the speedometer. All speedos (whether in a train, in car or any other vehicle) have a margin of error or margin of overspeed built into them.

So for example, the speedo on a class 66 is calibrated to 100mph, but the loco is limited to 75mph. This builds in a 33.4% safety margin to allow the driver to know that he is overspeeding and, by how much. It also allows for wear in the wheel tyres/wheel sets (a smaller wheel turns faster than a larger one) and allows for wheelslip which can sending the needle shooting round the gauge.

On a class 60, the margin for error/overspeed is 25% which means that the speedo is calibrated to 75mph.

If, as some people are insisting, the class 60 was originally designed to run at 75mph and then 'limited' later in its life, there would have been no margin of overspeed on the speedometers and no way for the driver to know if he was exceeding the maximum speed. On such a technologically advanced loco, this would seem rather an oversight....

Even the slow speed speedo has an overspeed margin of around 11.1% (highest slow speed setting is 2.7 mph and the speedo is calibrated to 3.0mph).

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Enthusiasts like 47s now, because they are rare. People who wouldn't have even turned to look at a 47 hauled passenger train in the 1990s would scramble to get on one now

Is this not also true of the 37s? I understand that it was only with the demise of the 40s, 55s etc that the humble 37s began to attract a large following.