Preferred Intercity Rolling Stock

[al.currie93]

I experienced my firsf trip on a Pendolino yesterday from Carlisle to London Euston... and I really didn't like it. I found the interior cramped and claustrophobic, it felt a bit like travelling inside a bubble, and the tilting actually made me feel a bit sick. I'd personally have rather travelled the journey on an 87/90 hauled Mk 3 and sacrificed some journey time!

But it got me wondering what people's top three favourite intercity rolling stock to travel in would be? Mine would be:

- Mk 3 in first place, as they are wide, spacious, and quiet and smooth enough to be comfortable but not to the point that they're airless and motionless
- Mk 4 in a close second, only due to the narrower profile
- Class 180 in third place, as they are nice amd spacious to travel in despite reliability issues, but suffer the multiple unit problem of contant engine noise and lower ceilings

What would other people say? And does anyone share my opinions on the Pendolino?

 

[DarloRich]

Mkiii/mkiv








modern units

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Thats an easy one:

MkIIa or b with the wood veneer and single opening windows. Seats with window views and steam leaking out from under the coach. Possibly, on the front of the train, a loud oil sloshing device or one of those nice Crompton Parkinson diesel electrics with far too many wheels.

Mr 2sheds is 54, stuck in the 1970s and not in a hurry.

 

[Aictos]

Open Cattle Wagons are the best stock to use













Seriously though as long as the train got you from A to B, does it really matter :roll:

 

[glbotu]

Seriously though as long as the train got you from A to B, does it really matter :roll:

This would be a rather less interesting forum if it didn't.

Mk3 hands down. Although I do find 373s very comfortable (do they count, I mean, if we still had White Rose Services, rather than on actual HS lines).

 

[SkinnyDave]

Pendolino is my favourite train to travel on it's the interior design that is ridiculous..
Ride quality and acceleration I really like.
I have saw the mock ups for the Hitachi 800 series and take politics out of it, I'm really looking forward to travelling on them (and hopefully driving them if I transfer depot at some point).

 

[DarloRich]

Pendolino is my favourite train to travel on it's the interior design that is ridiculous..
Ride quality and acceleration I really like.
I have saw the mock ups for the Hitachi 800 series and take politics out of it, I'm really looking forward to travelling on them (and hopefully driving them if I transfer depot at some point).

I agree the Pendolino is a fantastic bit of engineering. It is just awful to travel in!

I am really concerned by the IEP and wonder why we can’t at least match the level of passenger comfort offered by a nearly 40 year old train!

 

[sprinterguy]

Seriously though as long as the train got you from A to B, does it really matter :roll:

It doesn't, really, but there's nothing to stop people expressing a preference.

In this country, the 180s must be my favourite. The mark 3s are great, but the soft suspension does give them a tendency to "soss about" and many of the droplight windows seem to have a difficulty staying closed, which causes one hell of a racket at speed (especially if the sliding doors into the passenger saloon have been locked open, as seems to happen an awful lot) and turns the vestibule into a wind tunnel. The 180s have none of these niggles and offer a comparable level of comfort, IMO.

Overall, I have to mention my like for the double-deck push-pull sets that seem to be everywhere across Begium, Germany and Switzerland. I suppose that technically they would be "inter-regional" stock rather than Intercity, but they do work some fairly long distance services. It's a shame our loading gauge excludes them from operating in this country - A fleet of those shuttling up and down the West Coast in place of 350s would be fantastic.

 

[gordonthemoron]

1. Pendolino
2. Javelin
3. MkIV

 

[sprinterguy]

Although I do find 373s very comfortable (do they count, I mean, if we still had White Rose Services, rather than on actual HS lines).

They're not bad at all in first class, but I find standard class to be cramped and quite frankly a bit drab; not really befitting of the international services that these "Trans-manche Super Trains", as they were originally titled, operate.

 

[Qwerty133]

Meridian
Pendolino
Voyager

 

[sprinterguy]

And does anyone share my opinions on the Pendolino?

The interior seems very dark and enclosed, and I cannot get comfortable in those seats for any great distance, but after I commuted on these trains for over a thousand miles a week for six months I found that I stopped noticing the perceived issues with the Pendolinos. Above all, I was glad for the accelerated journey times and high levels of reliability that the Pendolinos have brought with them. The same goes for Voyagers: I may not like the trains themselves, but I am glad that travelling on the Crosscountry network is much less of a gamble, and a bit quicker, than it was in the days of the venerable old 47s and mark 2s.

 

[LexyBoy]

A Voyager or 180 is pretty nice for me, provided it's under 2 hours or so. Longer than that and the engine vibration becomes unpleasant. Either of these would be equal to a MkIII/IV if electric. Pendos are just too cramped and plane-like.

I don't agree with all the "things were better back in the day" - in my opinion the EC and CrossCountry MkIIIs are a considerable improvement on the original configuration, whilst those on the Big Blue Railway... less so.

I'm looking forward to IEP too, the Javelins are pretty smooth and have a nice, if boring, interior. If I ever say that I preferred FGW's HSTs over the IEPs, let me be unceremoniously booted from the forum

Seriously though as long as the train got you from A to B, does it really matter :roll:

Er, yes? People pay a premium for train travel over say coach or car, and one of the reasons is comfort.

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't agree with all the "things were better back in the day" - in my opinion the EC and CrossCountry MkIIIs are a considerable improvement on the original configuration, whilst those on the Big Blue Railway... less so.

Agreed. I spent a considerable period of time on the former EMT Mk3s set that EC now operate and I must admit at several point thinking to myself 'I wish I was on a Mallard refurbished set'. It wasn't bad but the normal EC Mk3 is a distinct improvement.

In terms of what I like, mostly it's to get from A to B but I do prefer doing so on a Mk4. I also rate 180s quite highly.

 

[chris89]

Well due to what i use most.

1: Pendolino (only if window seat, pillar ones make me feel iffy)
2: Voyager, prefer the quietness inside the 390s.
3: Mark 4s. Very rarely use them, but are fantastic.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Mk3 particularly in EMT HST or Pretendolino form.

 

[43074]

1. Mark 3s, particularly Greater Anglia, EMT, Virgin or Grand Central
2. Adelante
3. Mark 4s

 

[asylumxl]

1. Meridian - Use them all the time and they have a lovely ride and ambience. Seats are comfortable too.
2. Pendolino - They are fine in my opinion. People just like to bash them. Give it 20 years and the same people will be demanding preservation.
3. Voyager - Similar to the Meridians but not as polished. The large windows give a sense of openness.

I wouldn't put MK3s or MK4s up there. My experiences of them last a minimum of 4 hours and they are just not that comfortable. The Mallard refurbed ones desperately need a refresh. The suspension is a lot stiffer and they're even worse when there is a fault with the secondary suspension.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Class 170.

 

[DarloRich]

I realise that there are a lot of youngsters on this board who might not have a lot of experience of travelling on proper trains and are therefore conditioned to expect the poor standards offered by modern trains but they simply are not as comfortable as the older trains. How even an average sized person sits comfortably for any length of time on a Voyager is beyond me. Edinburgh to Plymouth is torture.

The current trains are fabulous engineering successes but this seems to come at the expense of the poor passenger and in particular the comfort of the passenger. The seats on, say , a Pendolino or Voyager are thin, narrow and uncomfortable. Perhaps I am at an advantage in that my life takes me all over the country on a weekly basis so I have a wide experience base to call on. Perhaps I am a luddite fool. Who knows? I do know that modern trains (by and large) are not as comfortable or spacious as the MKIII or MKIV they replace.

 

[nathanclass323]

I realise that there are a lot of youngsters on this board who might not have a lot of experience of travelling on proper trains and are therefore conditioned to expect the poor standards offered by modern trains but they simply are not as comfortable as the older trains. How even an average sized person sits comfortably for any length of time on a Voyager is beyond me. Edinburgh to Plymouth is torture.

The current trains are fabulous engineering successes but this seems to come at the expense of the poor passenger and in particular the comfort of the passenger. The seats on, say , a Pendolino or Voyager are thin, narrow and uncomfortable. Perhaps I am at an advantage in that my life takes me all over the country on a weekly basis so I have a wide experience base to call on. Perhaps I am a luddite fool. Who knows? I do know that modern trains (by and large) are not as comfortable or spacious as the MKIII or MKIV they replace.

How likely do think it will be for the IEP to be as much as an engineering success as the modern units we already have here AND be able to match the comfort of an IC70 seat in a MK3? The only one that's slightly close to that IMO is the 175 and 180 but even they have had their reliability issues.

 

[asylumxl]

I realise that there are a lot of youngsters on this board who might not have a lot of experience of travelling on proper trains and are therefore conditioned to expect the poor standards offered by modern trains but they simply are not as comfortable as the older trains. How even an average sized person sits comfortably for any length of time on a Voyager is beyond me. Edinburgh to Plymouth is torture.

The current trains are fabulous engineering successes but this seems to come at the expense of the poor passenger and in particular the comfort of the passenger. The seats on, say , a Pendolino or Voyager are thin, narrow and uncomfortable. Perhaps I am at an advantage in that my life takes me all over the country on a weekly basis so I have a wide experience base to call on. Perhaps I am a luddite fool. Who knows? I do know that modern trains (by and large) are not as comfortable or spacious as the MKIII or MKIV they replace.

Condescending much? I'd go with luddite fool . Horses for courses they say.

Spacious? Let's be objective here. The actual internal widths aren't much different, especially when you consider the profiles are a result of gauging. JungleJames in his infinite wisdom proved a while ago that modern IC units only have a few centimetres less leg room.

As for the seats, I'd rather sit on a bed of nails than sit in IC70 seats for more than an hour (and I did from Edinburgh to London a week ago and regularly use them on EMT). They provide the lumbar support of rice pudding and the arm rests seem to be positioned for a chimpanzee.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I realise that there are a lot of youngsters on this board who might not have a lot of experience of travelling on proper trains and are therefore conditioned to expect the poor standards offered by modern trains but they simply are not as comfortable as the older trains. How even an average sized person sits comfortably for any length of time on a Voyager is beyond me. Edinburgh to Plymouth is torture.

The current trains are fabulous engineering successes but this seems to come at the expense of the poor passenger and in particular the comfort of the passenger. The seats on, say , a Pendolino or Voyager are thin, narrow and uncomfortable. Perhaps I am at an advantage in that my life takes me all over the country on a weekly basis so I have a wide experience base to call on. Perhaps I am a luddite fool. Who knows? I do know that modern trains (by and large) are not as comfortable or spacious as the MKIII or MKIV they replace.

I'm not convinced. People would have said exactly the same thing about the trains you enjoy now back when they were new, and yet I don't see anyone clamouring for Big Four carriages or anything these days...

 

[starrymarkb]

I can't say I was ever keen on the IC70 seats. And Mk3s are noisy, especially if as mentioned a droplight wont shut!

I've been very impressed by ICEs, though there is a fare premium to use them for that in 2nd/standard you get reclining seats, adjustable headrest, foot rests (basically a 2+2 version of UK first) also ICE1 sets have compartments - First has even bigger seats and tables)

Swiss IC2000s and Pendolinos (Locally built) were a little disappointing with only half tables in Second.

 

[DarloRich]

How likely do think it will be for the IEP to be as much as an engineering success as the modern units we already have here AND be able to match the comfort of an IC70 seat in a MK3? The only one that's slightly close to that IMO is the 175 and 180 but even they have had their reliability issues.

I think they will be fantastic pieces of cutting edge engineering. I just don’t have any faith that they will offer at least the same level of comfort as a much older train. Why is it that we see this as acceptable?

Condescending much? I'd go with luddite fool . Horses for courses they say.

Spacious? Let's be objective here. The actual internal widths aren't much different, especially when you consider the profiles are a result of gauging. JungleJames in his infinite wisdom proved a while ago that modern IC units only have a few centimetres less leg room.

As for the seats, I'd rather sit on a bed of nails than sit in IC70 seats for more than an hour (and I did from Edinburgh to London a week ago and regularly use them on EMT). They provide the lumbar support of rice pudding and the arm rests seem to be positioned for a chimpanzee.

I should clarify that it ISNT the original seats on a MKIII I like. They are not fantastically comfortable on a long run, especially when trying to work at a table. I think the current East Coast seats are very comfortable and offer good support. Although I DO like FC on Grand Central

I'm not convinced. People would have said exactly the same thing about the trains you enjoy now back when they were new, and yet I don't see anyone clamouring for Big Four carriages or anything these days...

But the new trains simply are not as comfortable, peaceful or quiet over the long distances. A Voyager from scotland to the south west is maddening and nerve shredding! Try working on a lap top on one. At times you can’t read the screen due to vibration! However long before that my bum is numb and my legs have turned to lead as the seat edge cuts off the circulation

I just find it frustrating that we seem to accept less than we should in terms of passenger comfort on long distance inter city trains.

 

[ainsworth74]

Try working on a lap top on one. At times you can’t read the screen due to vibration! However long before that my bum is numb and my legs have turned to lead as the seat edge cuts off the circulation

I have used a laptop, quite a bit, on Voyagers and can't say I find them any worse than Mk3s or Mk4s. Similarly I don't have an issue with the seats. Are you sure you're sitting in them properly

I will grant you that vibration was an issue on one Voyager I got from Crewe to Bangor which left me with a headache but that was the only time I've ever noticed significant vibration other than when undergoing the first second of vibration pulling away from a station.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I think they will be fantastic pieces of cutting edge engineering. I just don’t have any faith that they will offer at least the same level of comfort as a much older train. Why is it that we see this as acceptable?

But the specification specifically addresses numerous complaints that are very common on here about new trains. It makes no sense to dislike them already without even having seen one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have used a laptop, quite a bit, on Voyagers and can't say I find them any worse than Mk3s or Mk4s. Similarly I don't have an issue with the seats. Are you sure you're sitting in them properly

I will grant you that vibration was an issue on one Voyager I got from Crewe to Bangor which left me with a headache but that was the only time I've ever noticed significant vibration other than when undergoing the first second of vibration pulling away from a station.

I do find it funny that the quiet coach is one of the coaches that never, ever has its engines disabled. I try and get coach C nowadays, as it's usually got a smooth, vibration-free ride.

 

[Clip]

Give me a 125* anyday of the week.




*Pedants need not reply

 

[asylumxl]

Give me a 125* anyday of the week.




*Pedants need not reply

You must be on a 420 because the 125 is 0.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Considering all the stock I've ever used on what would be classed as an Intercity service, my top three has to be:

1) GNER/E* 373
2) SWT 442
3) FNW pressure-ventilated Mk2s with compartments!