Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[ANorthernGuard]

I rather think that it wont impact at all.............£ 3.80 off peak return Bolton to Manchester isnt going to put anyone off going into town for a few beers priced at £4 a pint.

think
You will find it will make a big difference especially mid week

 

[pemma]

The evening tickets have been about since I started back in 08!

This will be a shock to the system to many who buy them!

They were originally introduced following the IRA bombing of Manchester. GMPTE wanted to attract people to go to Manchester again following the bombing.

 

[Moonshot]

They were originally introduced following the IRA bombing of Manchester. GMPTE wanted to attract people to go to Manchester again following the bombing.

Served its purpose then.......its a very cosmopolitan place nowadays.

 

[175001]

My word thats even longer than I thought!

 

[greatkingrat]

And even if 40% of people who bought an Evening Return no longer travel, Northern will still end up with more revenue than before.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Not really because a lot of guards will not put themselves at risk. Especially the 1st few months. A lot of people will be angry. Mix that with alcohol and you have a volatile mix.

 

[Moonshot]

Not really because a lot of guards will not put themselves at risk. Especially the 1st few months. A lot of people will be angry. Mix that with alcohol and you have a volatile mix.

But we have that situation now....so surely if it did put off 40% of passengers as the above poster suggested, wouldnt it just be the idiots who go out to get plastered in the first place and cause issues? Wouldnt you rather they spent their cash in the pubs in Bolton instead? I m sure they would welcome the business

 

[ANorthernGuard]

But we have that situation now....so surely if it did put off 40% of passengers as the above poster suggested, wouldnt it just be the idiots who go out to get plastered in the first place and cause issues? Wouldnt you rather they spent their cash in the pubs in Bolton instead? I m sure they would welcome the business

My depot tends to be do tickets til pretty late. We as so many people keep reminding us are part of a service. Fair enough the peak time restrictions but to remove 2 of the best value tickets that help attract people to the railway is quite frankly stupid.

 

[Moonshot]

My depot tends to be do tickets til pretty late. We as so many people keep reminding us are part of a service. Fair enough the peak time restrictions but to remove 2 of the best value tickets that help attract people to the railway is quite frankly stupid.

No its not......and in fact removing the evening ranger also reduces the risk of a Condition 3 prosecution as one forumite will testify to.

And surely if I m right and it wont affect demand whatsoever, think of the extra commission me and you will get.

 

[pemma]

But hey , as has been stated on the " North isnt getting a good deal thread " , we want a railway but are not prepared to pay the true cost of a ticket.

Maybe the cheap Advance tickets should be withdrawn on Virgin and we should consider reducing the off-peak frequency between Manchester and London if people aren't willing to pay the full price?

 

[Moonshot]

Maybe the cheap Advance tickets should be withdrawn on Virgin and we should consider reducing the off-peak frequency between Manchester and London if people aren't willing to pay the full price?

Or maybe we should just build more trams everywhere which have a higher frequency and run to the early hours of the morning at weekend and people are prepared to pay the price of a ticket for that convenience.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That list doesn't mention Merseytravel or ATW territory, nor the area tickets like Lancs/Cheshire Day Rangers.
Are we to assume it's no change in those areas (eg Chester-Manchester CDR)?
We are about to enter a world where Manchester-Warrington is barred for CDRs in the peak, but Manchester-Chester CDR (on the same train) is allowed.

 

[yorkie]

We are about to enter a world where Manchester-Warrington is barred for CDRs in the peak, but Manchester-Chester CDR (on the same train) is allowed.

Yes, that's common elsewhere in the country.

See Island's Milton Keynes example for an example of how crazy it can get

Fortunately ticket terms and conditions are the same across all Train Companies, so we know exactly where we stand and can buy with confidence.

 

[pemma]

That list doesn't mention Merseytravel or ATW territory, nor the area tickets like Lancs/Cheshire Day Rangers.
Are we to assume it's no change in those areas (eg Chester-Manchester CDR)?
We are about to enter a world where Manchester-Warrington is barred for CDRs in the peak, but Manchester-Chester CDR (on the same train) is allowed.

It's part of the Direct Award agreement between Northern and DfT that these changes are coming about, so shouldn't affect ATW, Virgin, XC, EC, EMT or TPE set fares.

 

[bb21]

No its not......and in fact removing the evening ranger also reduces the risk of a Condition 3 prosecution as one forumite will testify to.

And surely if I m right and it wont affect demand whatsoever, think of the extra commission me and you will get.

I seriously doubt they have Condition 3 in mind when they considered withdrawing certain products, if they are aware of it at all in the first place.

That list doesn't mention Merseytravel or ATW territory, nor the area tickets like Lancs/Cheshire Day Rangers.
Are we to assume it's no change in those areas (eg Chester-Manchester CDR)?
We are about to enter a world where Manchester-Warrington is barred for CDRs in the peak, but Manchester-Chester CDR (on the same train) is allowed.

That situation already exists elsewhere. "Let's just make rail fare more confusing for everyone."

 

[Moonshot]

I seriously doubt they have Condition 3 in mind when they considered withdrawing certain products, if they are aware of it at all in the first place.



That situation already exists elsewhere. "Let's just make rail fare more confusing for everyone."

Yes I know.....I was simply making the point of the effect.

 

[pemma]

We are about to enter a world where Manchester-Warrington is barred for CDRs in the peak, but Manchester-Chester CDR (on the same train) is allowed.

Mmm. It appears Chester-Manchester CDRs are only available for Route:Altrincham or VWC only http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CTR&dest=MAN

Also Frodsham-Manchester doesn't have a CDR, only a SDR.

So maybe it won't be as crazy on the ATW Manchester-Chester service as you envisaged.

 

[Starmill]

You must really hate your customers.

They're fantastic products and this post is entirely aimed at me for my recent 'condition 3' thread.

I will be writing to my MP about their withdrawal.

 

[muz379]

As It stands I think if Northern have decided they want to introduce an evening peak period TFGM should follow suit and restrict the passes that they issue as well .

As for reducing overcrowding , I dont think it will make that much a difference , it will either shift the problem later or people will just chance it knowing that a lot of the time the train is too overcrowded to get their ticket checked . And the RPI's at the station will miss the off peak ticket .

I wonder how many Guards will actually enforce it as well given that they are going to need to know the restrictions on loads of different tickets .

No its not......and in fact removing the evening ranger also reduces the risk of a Condition 3 prosecution as one forumite will testify to.

Youve not a got a clue have you :roll:

Or maybe we should just build more trams everywhere which have a higher frequency and run to the early hours of the morning at weekend and people are prepared to pay the price of a ticket for that convenience.

Surely if trains over a certain route running at a pretty regular frequency like Man to Bolton are not taking that much money a tram is not going to take any more ? Introducing the tram on a quiet line also runs the risk that nobody will use it

and Id love to see statistics for how many trams have revenue checks carried out on a friday and saturday night on the last tram . and how much ticket less travel it is estimated goes on on those trams .
The fare on the tram is already higher , and given that only 53% of tram passengers are not actually satisfied with the level fares are set I dont think that is really a precedent for people being happy to pay the price .

Wonder how many guards will be getting assaulted in september explaining to the people going out at night that the ticket price has just doubled. Ridiculous taking away evening rangers and cheap evening returns.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I think he does

I certainly dont relish explaining to passengers that the fare has doubled .

But the way the accountants see it as long as at least 49% of people that already travel in the evenings after 18:30 still travel it has worked .


As someone else has said removing two of the cheapest ticket options and seeking to put restrictions on loads of others does look like a fare hike by proxy

 

[Starmill]

And even if 40% of people who bought an Evening Return no longer travel, Northern will still end up with more revenue than before.

Rubbish.

 

[Starmill]

My depot tends to be do tickets til pretty late.

No disrespect mate but that's not true and you know it.

 

[Moonshot]

No disrespect mate but that's not true and you know it.

I rather think it is true .....I certainly do.

 

[pemma]

The man who made the decision is Alex Hynes. DfT proposed a number of options for Northern to be less subsidy reliant and ask Northern to choose which ones they want to implement and they chose ticketing changes and lowering energy consumption.

http://www.northernrail.org/news/7445

 

[ANorthernGuard]

No disrespect mate but that's not true and you know it.

Actually picc has been proven to be one of the best depots for revenue collection however your part of the airport line is soul destroying. Especially mauldeth road with numerous cards that decline we gave up.

 

[Moonshot]

Actually picc has been proven to be one of the best depots for revenue collection however your part of the airport line is soul destroying. Especially mauldeth road with numerous cards that decline we gave up.

I can certainly testify to guards collecting revenue late at night, I know plenty do ( myself included ).

 

[theblackwatch]

The evening tickets have been about since I started back in 08!

This will be a shock to the system to many who buy them!

And the West Yorkshire Day Rover has been about (and valid in the afternoon peak) for over 30 years...

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I hate doing this but yes I agree with moonshot plenty do.

 

[Merseysider]

I can certainly testify to guards collecting revenue late at night, I know plenty do ( myself included ).

Evenings, I'd say 9 times out of 10 there are ticket checks on the Southport - Manchester line. None whatsoever after 9pm going Wigan - Liverpool and very rare indeed on the Styal & Hope Valley lines. It depends where you're travelling I guess, but you both have a point.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

That list doesn't mention Merseytravel or ATW territory, nor the area tickets like Lancs/Cheshire Day Rangers.
Are we to assume it's no change in those areas (eg Chester-Manchester CDR)?....

Not sure what fares you would expect Northern to change in "ATW territory", but there are no noted changes in the brief I have. The Merseytravel ticketing area is not getting changes as they have had evening restrictions for some time. Lancs/Cheshire Day Rangers are fairly high value (in comparison to your average Off-Peak Day fare) and wouldn't be that helpful to a lot of commuters anyway.

....We are about to enter a world where Manchester-Warrington is barred for CDRs in the peak, but Manchester-Chester CDR (on the same train) is allowed.

Been happening on other lines for years, don't know what makes Chester-Warrington-Manchester so special.

 

[Moonshot]

Evenings, I'd say 9 times out of 10 there are ticket checks on the Southport - Manchester line. None whatsoever after 9pm going Wigan - Liverpool and very rare indeed on the Styal & Hope Valley lines. It depends where you're travelling I guess, but you both have a point.

So if one of the effects of removing the dirt cheap tickets in the evenings is getting rid of the idiots who can intimidate some guards, isnt it true that the better atmosphere etc would also increase the well being of those such as women and children who also feel intimidated by such ?