The infamous 1915 from Paddington (police called to handle situation on 18th Sept)

[HowardGWR]

It seems to me disgraceful that the management leave the man on the spot, namely the conductor or guard, to deal with these nonsenses. We have had the same story on other threads about the SWT trains to Exeter being crammed with Woking commuters, when the train is supposed to be pick up only from Woking.

I have wondered whether similar issues apply at Watford or other northern commuter stations?

In any event, a once or twice visit per month by a band of TTIs would solve the issues, would it not?

 

[jon0844]

Every now and then, when possible with stock and maybe a spare path from an unused freight service, you skip Reading and take people a lot further - and then upon arrival, you have teams of RPIs to deal with those who over travelled with Reading tickets (i.e. charge them the fare, plus of course the ticket to get back).

And management supports its staff, and stands up to the inevitable Twitter storm that will result. I doubt it would take very long to sort out, once word goes around that taking that service is a bit of a gamble because the train doesn't always pick up on the way.

 

[455driver]

Every now and then, when possible with stock and maybe a spare path from an unused freight service, you skip Reading and take people a lot further - and then upon arrival, you have teams of RPIs to deal with those who over travelled with Reading tickets (i.e. charge them the fare, plus of course the ticket to get back).

And management supports its staff, and stands up to the inevitable Twitter storm that will result. I doubt it would take very long to sort out, once word goes around that taking that service is a bit of a gamble because the train doesn't always pick up on the way.

You are forgetting the power of the Reading commuters, there are a lot of votes and a lot of influential people on the trains to Paddington.

 

[Gareth Marston]

You are forgetting the power of the Reading commuters, there are a lot of votes and a lot of influential people on the trains to Paddington.

For the sake of balance let's remember the season ticket price from Reading to London Paddington, Standard Class is £4,088.00.

How many Of us pay £4K each year on a single purchase and what do we expect for it?

 

[455driver]

How many Of us pay £4K each year on a single purchase and what do we expect for it?

About 40 miles per gallon, air conditioning and leather seats!

 

[Drsatan]

About 40 miles per gallon, air conditioning and leather seats!

I do find it quite astonishing that Reading commuters complain about cost and overcrowding, yet they have a 'turn up and go' 125mph that takes on average 35 minutes to arrive at London.

 

[richw]

About 40 miles per gallon, air conditioning and leather seats!

40mpg would be nice. I do have the other 2 on your wish list though. It doesn't cost me anywhere near 4k a year though.

Oh wait it isn't a train though.....

 

[Bishopstone]

I do find it quite astonishing that Reading commuters complain about cost and overcrowding, yet they have a 'turn up and go' 125mph that takes on average 35 minutes to arrive at London.

The season ticket price reflects the speed and alleged high quality of the service, though. Reading commuters pay roughly the same as me, but I'm about 60 miles from London, rather than 35.

Given the premium they pay, I can well understand they are resistant to ploys to direct them to trundling Turbos, which is undoubtedly what some here would prefer.

And obviously, anyone giving a business £4000 a year of custom, with a reasonable expectation of repeat revenue, should be considered a pretty high priority when it comes to ensuring customer satisfaction. Hence the genuine efforts FGW/DFT have made in this regard, around Standard seating capacity.

 

[westie1]

Every now and then, when possible with stock and maybe a spare path from an unused freight service, you skip Reading and take people a lot further - and then upon arrival, you have teams of RPIs to deal with those who over travelled with Reading tickets (i.e. charge them the fare, plus of course the ticket to get back).

And while doing that you p155 off those of us at Reading wanting to catch that train. There are no spare paths or stock at that time of the evening.

 

[bb21]

For the sake of balance let's remember the season ticket price from Reading to London Paddington, Standard Class is £4,088.00.

How many Of us pay £4K each year on a single purchase and what do we expect for it?

Relevance being?

 

[jon0844]

And while doing that you p155 off those of us at Reading wanting to catch that train. There are no spare paths or stock at that time of the evening.

No, because I said if you can organise another train and path to run from Reading. With some juggling around it could be possible, maybe. Or maybe not, in which case you need to check people before boarding every now and then - but that's hardly the same deterrent.

And speaking for myself, I paid over £3k a year but quickly got to work out the best trains for me, including where to board. As said countless times, I could travel with a guaranteed seat on a train that was near crush loaded at the other end of an 8 car set. Never, ever, understood why people didn't move down but clearly it was good for me so I guess these idiots better not ever realise that there's more than one or two doors on a train.

 

[Greenback]

And while doing that you p155 off those of us at Reading wanting to catch that train. There are no spare paths or stock at that time of the evening.

I lived in Reading for six years, and I never complained about the gaps in services that existed in those times. It's unreasonable to expect that services are always going to run at the times we want them to, or that are the most convenient for us as individuals.

Railway timetabling is all about trying to satisfy the most people while inconveniencing the least. Every time there are major timetable recasts some people are disadvantaged compared to what they had previously. Sadly, it's impossible to keep everybody happy and I believe that the course of least resistance is to remove the Reading call from that service completely.

I'm sorry that this will inevitably cause frustration and inconvenience to some travellers, but overall I think it would be for the greater good.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I really wish people who lived in the London commuter area who complain about the frequency and timings of their services would come live elsewhere for a few months and see how good they actually have it compared to much of the country.

 

[Greenback]

In fairness, there are a lot of people in the London commuter area!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The season ticket price reflects the speed and alleged high quality of the service, though. Reading commuters pay roughly the same as me, but I'm about 60 miles from London, rather than 35.

I pay the same as Reading commuters and I get a train every 30 minutes, and that train is always the first to be cancelled when anything goes slightly wrong on the WCML. All London fares are extortionate, but the fat cat directors and hedge funders need to buy their yachts somehow.

Taking the Reading call (and the Didcot call) permanently from this service would be the best solution of all, because trying to enforce a pick-up only call is next to impossible. There are other fast or semi-fast Reading trains at 1918, 1922 and 1930, the 1922 Hereford being a HST too. Passengers from Reading heading towards Wales can always get the 1928 Reading to Bristol and change at Swindon.

 

[Tibbs]

It seems to me disgraceful that the management leave the man on the spot, namely the conductor or guard, to deal with these nonsenses. We have had the same story on other threads about the SWT trains to Exeter being crammed with Woking commuters, when the train is supposed to be pick up only from Woking.

I have wondered whether similar issues apply at Watford or other northern commuter stations?

In any event, a once or twice visit per month by a band of TTIs would solve the issues, would it not?

It's not an issue at Watford as only 1 LM train per hour (I think) skips Watford, all the rest stop there, and for maybe half of them it's the first stop.

Time to Watford on a direct is about 15 minutes, for an LM 'stopper' (not the LO all stations) it's about 20.

Maybe a better comparison is MK, where VT do a 'pick up only' service I think?

 

[westie1]

I lived in Reading for six years, and I never complained about the gaps in services that existed in those times. It's unreasonable to expect that services are always going to run at the times we want them to, or that are the most convenient for us as individuals.

Railway timetabling is all about trying to satisfy the most people while inconveniencing the least. Every time there are major timetable recasts some people are disadvantaged compared to what they had previously. Sadly, it's impossible to keep everybody happy and I believe that the course of least resistance is to remove the Reading call from that service completely.

I'm sorry that this will inevitably cause frustration and inconvenience to some travellers, but overall I think it would be for the greater good.

When was that six year period? I seem to remember you mentioned the late 1990s in an earlier post. Well, things have changed greatly since then - not least the population of Reading (9% increase since 2001) and the number of people travelling by rail from Reading (20% increase since 2002). That has been reflected in the timetabling and calling patterns. Removing calls because that was what it was like 10 or 15 years ago would be a retrograde step and in no way for the greater good.

There are no calls, apart from the armchair planners here, for a recast of the GWML timetable until the improvement works at Reading, electrification, Crossrail and squadron introduction of new rolling stock is complete. To recast it now, omitting the Reading stop and introducing a 90 minute gap (with the excuse of, "that's how it used to be") just to stop a group of passengers using the 1915 between Paddington and Reading, is plain bonkers.

Stop those chancers using the pick up only services to Reading (all of them, not just this one), but don't do it by sailing through Reading. It seems to me that there is some perverse delight from posters on this thread in seeing dozens of people over-carried and charged additional fares. Stop them boarding the pick-up only services in the first place.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record. There is ZERO CHANCE of the DfT changing FGW's Service Level Commitment, until GWML works are complete and new rolling stock is ready.

 

[Tetchytyke]

To recast it now, omitting the Reading stop and introducing a 90 minute gap (with the excuse of, "that's how it used to be") just to stop a group of passengers using the 1915 between Paddington and Reading, is plain bonkers.

It's a fifteen minute gap between the 1900 Paddington-Bristol and the 1915 Paddington-Swansea, with a same-platform interchange at Swindon.

 

[jimm]

Fair enough. What do I know. I'll go baçk to my cup of tea in the van.

No, not fair enough. You said the following

Agreed, but this requires input and motivation from the station side at Paddington, and it's easier for them to just let everybody through - after all, once the wheels start turning, it's no longer their problem...

so I would like to hear how you propose to go about it, as a train manager in the front line, given the apparent deficiencies in the station side at Paddington. Back up the thread, you posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llanigraham
Perhaps there should be an official at each First Class door inspecting tickets, refusing access to incorrect ticket holders and send the "plebs" to the correct doors? (partial joke)

I do that. The level of abuse one can get is unbelievable.

So please enlighten us as to how you would keep the Reading passengers off the 19.15 on a Friday/out of first class without a small army of people on the train doors.

Taking the Reading call (and the Didcot call) permanently from this service would be the best solution of all, because trying to enforce a pick-up only call is next to impossible. There are other fast or semi-fast Reading trains at 1918, 1922 and 1930, the 1922 Hereford being a HST too. Passengers from Reading heading towards Wales can always get the 1928 Reading to Bristol and change at Swindon.

All of which are busy with people going to other places - as I and others keep pointing out, everything out of Paddington is busy - apart, apparently, from coaches A and B on every HST, even if Liam Dutton was sat in coach B and I never seem to get coach A to myself when I sit in it but obviously I'm just unlucky. So your answer is to make the 19.22 an utter scrum instead. Some solution.

It's a fifteen minute gap between the 1900 Paddington-Bristol and the 1915 Paddington-Swansea, with a same-platform interchange at Swindon.

How long before someone pops up to tell us that the 19.00 is also hugely overloaded with Reading and Swindon commuters and should be first stop Chippenham?

 

[Greenback]

When was that six year period? I seem to remember you mentioned the late 1990s in an earlier post. Well, things have changed greatly since then - not least the population of Reading (9% increase since 2001) and the number of people travelling by rail from Reading (20% increase since 2002). That has been reflected in the timetabling and calling patterns. Removing calls because that was what it was like 10 or 15 years ago would be a retrograde step and in no way for the greater good.

There are no calls, apart from the armchair planners here, for a recast of the GWML timetable until the improvement works at Reading, electrification, Crossrail and squadron introduction of new rolling stock is complete. To recast it now, omitting the Reading stop and introducing a 90 minute gap (with the excuse of, "that's how it used to be") just to stop a group of passengers using the 1915 between Paddington and Reading, is plain bonkers.

Stop those chancers using the pick up only services to Reading (all of them, not just this one), but don't do it by sailing through Reading. It seems to me that there is some perverse delight from posters on this thread in seeing dozens of people over-carried and charged additional fares. Stop them boarding the pick-up only services in the first place.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record. There is ZERO CHANCE of the DfT changing FGW's Service Level Commitment, until GWML works are complete and new rolling stock is ready.

There are severe problems with that service and something needs to be done. If FGW choose to bury their heads in the sand and leave it to TM's to sort out, that is up to them, but it doesn't mean they are right.

I agree that Reading has increased in importance since I lived there. I am not some old buffoon reminiscing back to the good old days, and I still travel regularly between south Wales and Reading. The increase in rail use has been addressed not only through additional carriages, calls and services, but also with additional seating by the withdrawal of tables, catering, and first class facilities. In the context, I don't think that removing one call is going to cause severe hardship. I'd call it inconvenience, yes, but not hardship.

I would much rather that other methods be used to control overcrowding on this particular train, but it seems to be impossible to prevent short distance passengers boarding the train. As Yorkie has already said, this often leads to delays at the moment, and any attempt to manually inspect each and every ticket at Paddington is doomed to failure.

 

[Flamingo]

No, not fair enough. You said the following



so I would like to hear how you propose to go about it, as a train manager in the front line, given the apparent deficiencies in the station side at Paddington. Back up the thread, you posted this:



So please enlighten us as to how you would keep the Reading passengers off the 19.15 on a Friday/out of first class without a small army of people on the train doors.



All of which are busy with people going to other places - as I and others keep pointing out, everything out of Paddington is busy - apart, apparently, from coaches A and B on every HST, even if Liam Dutton was sat in coach B and I never seem to get coach A to myself when I sit in it but obviously I'm just unlucky. So your answer is to make the 19.22 an utter scrum instead. Some solution.



How long before someone pops up to tell us that the 19.00 is also hugely overloaded with Reading and Swindon commuters and should be first stop Chippenham?

Sorry, kettle's boiled. I'll work out my plan on the back of a fag packet (as soon as I find a fag packet) and I've finished drinking tea.

I don't get to work the 19.15 very often, so it's not really my problem.

 

[Deerfold]

It's not an issue at Watford as only 1 LM train per hour (I think) skips Watford, all the rest stop there, and for maybe half of them it's the first stop.

Time to Watford on a direct is about 15 minutes, for an LM 'stopper' (not the LO all stations) it's about 20.

Maybe a better comparison is MK, where VT do a 'pick up only' service I think?

There is 1 VT tph that's pick up only at Watford Junction for Birmingham - I'm sure there used to be more at one point.

 

[jon0844]

I believe some enforcement is necessary and if that means a penalty for being over carried (which isn't even the case for a train that doesn't set down) then so be it. It's only a minority of arrogant commuters so doesn't affect the others who simply don't take that service and would never dream of doing so.

Everyone pays the same season ticket prices, so why do some think they deserve more and at the expense and comfort of others, who might also be commuters and pay more than them anyway?

If nothing else, it's not socially acceptable. And some people need taking down a peg or two because such arrogance probably shows in other ways too.

 

[jimm]

Sorry, kettle's boiled. I'll work out my plan on the back of a fag packet (as soon as I find a fag packet) and I've finished drinking tea.

I don't get to work the 19.15 very often, so it's not really my problem.

I see. Maybe "station side" at Paddington are also too busy taking a tea break to deploy any "input and motivation" solving this one then.

Meanwhile, I'll just sit back in the armchair I use on my daily trundles up and down FGW-land, except, of course when in a Turbo with those seats for people without arms - another mysterious sub-species from the Thames Valley like the 'Reading commuter'.

 

[Flamingo]

I see. Maybe "station side" at Paddington are also too busy taking a tea break to deploy any "input and motivation" solving this one.

Probably.

 

[jimm]

There are severe problems with that service and something needs to be done. If FGW choose to bury their heads in the sand and leave it to TM's to sort out, that is up to them, but it doesn't mean they are right.

So making the 19.15 pick-up only at Reading on Friday and running a relief train three minutes earlier by rustling up what must be pretty much the only spare Turbo going is FGW management burying its head in the sand, is it? An interesting take on things.

 

[infobleep]

I know that a lot of thought has gone in to the 19.15. Advance tickets are not sold for it (we have been told), and a plan to run two trains around that time was stymied by the lack of paths - it had gone as far as allocating staff in the link, so for six months the staff were being rostered to work a train that didn't exist.

All the other arguments have already been covered in the thread - but I know that every evening train I work unless there is major disruption, there are people going to Reading in First Class on Std tickets claiming there is no room, and further up the train there will be seats, and standing room, and when these are pointed out, the answer invariably is "I'll stand, I'm only going one stop".

The victim culture is too ingrained - I had somebody write in a while ago that I moved him to a "dangerously overcrowded standard class". I had 116 empty seats on that train, and made numerous announcements to this effect before checking tickets.

The only thing that could be done and would make a difference is to put the RPI heavy mob on the train, issuing PF's to everybody going to Reading and Didcot. But that would upset voters, sorry, I mean passengers.

If I am only going one stop and the time is less than 10 minutes I will stand. I wouldn't however moan about a lack of seats if I've not proved there are no seats. One can only do that by walking the length of the whole train and annoying some other passengers in the process.

Some people are idiots at times.

 

[infobleep]

Thats not crowded, you should try some of our (SWT) trains if you want to see crowded, and I dont just mean the suburban routes either!

Oh silly me, I forgot, the Reading lot are 'special' in so many ways arent they!

Perhaps SWT commuters are more tolerant. There again based on the complaints from Portsmouth, may be not.

 

[Greenback]

So making the 19.15 pick-up only at Reading on Friday and running a relief train three minutes earlier by rustling up what must be pretty much the only spare Turbo going is FGW management burying its head in the sand, is it? An interesting take on things.

There is more they can do, so, yes, if they are not doing what is possible to relieve things then there is no question of that in my view.

 

[jimm]

There is more they can do, so, yes, if they are not doing what is possible to relieve things then there is no question of that in my view.

So I'll ask you, since Flamingo's still on his tea break and doesn't seem to want to tell us what his solution might be, what more should FGW's management do? And I mean concrete, practical suggestions - not vague stuff about 'enforcing pick-up only rules better'. How would you enforce said rules, or any other 'solution'?

If I want to read abuse aimed at FGW's management for not providing 1+1 seating and 20 coaches on all their trains, then I can just go and look at their Twitter feed, where the Great British public is in fine form today, despite the deaths at Slough.